Indoor Winter Storage

[danaid]

If you have a plastic tank, you should not leave it filled. 

Stabil is crap.  Look up the MSDS.  Kerosene and naphtha.  Save yourself money and leave it alone.  If you have to use something K100 is the only third-party tested product to be shown to work.

 I will have to look for this product, I use stabil in my bike and lawn equipment and it seems to work as was posted already.

 Back to the OP, since I'm here in sunny California, I tried using the starting the bike every so often method, but those few times I forgot to start the bike when it was really cold was enough to kill the battery.

 I currently use stabil and a battery tender until winter sets in here for those few months and then I remove the battery and set it on the bench with a charger.

[ducatiz]

My issue with Stabil isn't that it doesn't work at all.  It does -- for refreshing stale gasoline and preventing lacquer from forming on parts -- gasoline dries and leaves a residue that is very hard to remove.

However, people want to use it to prevent the tank deformation problem and it won't help that.  Storing your bike with a full tank of fuel is not a problem if you have a METAL tank.  Adding stabil will provide some advantage to the fuel remaining "good" when you go to start it months later.

However, with a PLASTIC tank, Stabil offers NOTHING and in fact, since it contains isopropanol (alcohol) as an additive could even make the deformation problem worse since the isopropanol will introduce more water moisture into your tank.

K100 has been tested by third parties for water dissipation and retention and it does what it says.  Stabil's claim of helping with water is a chemical change in the nature of the gasoline so it burns the water, but it doesn't prevent it from separating.

[hillbillypolack]

Interesting, I was wondering why you were so vehemently opposed to Sta-Bil.

Can you suggest a method to preserve seals, gaskets etc from drying or varnishing during storage?  Fuel additives have done right by me so I was wondering what your take would be.

[Curmudgeon]

Interesting, I was wondering why you were so vehemently opposed to Sta-Bil.

Can you suggest a method to preserve seals, gaskets etc from drying or varnishing during storage?  Fuel additives have done right by me so I was wondering what your take would be.

Have a look at the FAQ on the Sta-bil site. Usually I agree with tiz's take on things but not this one. Red Sta-bil will maintain the volatility of fuel to a great extent for about a year so long as it's added to fresh gas. As the FAQ states, it will not revive fuel which has started to turn, nor will it remove water from fuel once phase separation has occurred.

Since ~ 1973 I've stored with full tanks containing Sta-bil and never had a problem with rust, seals, carbs or injectors. Once those parts are exposed to fuel, I'd never leave them dry for months at a time. That's just asking for trouble IMO. Never had any water in the bottom of my tanks either but do store in a dry, insulated garage with a sealed floor and above 40 F for the most part. This storage tactic has also worked well since 1995 for two collector vehicles I own which never see salt.

Would like to see tiz's "hard copy" on the K-100 3rd party test though as I have an open mind to anything new which is proven to work!

[ducatiz]

Have a look at the FAQ on the Sta-bil site. Usually I agree with tiz's take on things but not this one. Red Sta-bil will maintain the volatility of fuel to a great extent for about a year so long as it's added to fresh gas. As the FAQ states, it will not revive fuel which has started to turn, nor will it remove water from fuel once phase separation has occurred.

Since ~ 1973 I've stored with full tanks containing Sta-bil and never had a problem with rust, seals, carbs or injectors. Once those parts are exposed to fuel, I'd never leave them dry for months at a time. That's just asking for trouble IMO. Never had any water in the bottom of my tanks either but do store in a dry, insulated garage with a sealed floor and above 40 F for the most part. This storage tactic has also worked well since 1995 for two collector vehicles I own which never see salt.

Would like to see tiz's "hard copy" on the K-100 3rd party test though as I have an open mind to anything new which is proven to work!

William, I tried to clarify my attitude about stabil above -- it's not the "fuel stability" properties I am skeptical of, it is the attempt to use Stabil to prevent water ingression into the nylon tanks.  For that purpose it is crap, you might as well put paint thinner in the tank.

There are two issues here:

1.  Fuel stability and aiding storage.

2.  Preventing water ingression by the gas tank.

Stabil works fine for #1

It does not work for #2 and may make the problem worse due to ingredient isopropanol (alcohol) since alcohol is a contributing factor as to why we are having problems iwth the tanks.

I'll send you the K100 study to your email.

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks for the pdf! The K-100 does appear to encapsulate a certain quantity of water while having little negative impact on the fuel. The only negative might be the compatibility with other stabilizers and in older machinery, the sludge and contaminants K-100 might release. I'd want to run a couple of tanks of pure gas through the bike in season before switching over and build up to the recommended concentration gradually.

On other related threads I've mentioned that I did not feel that Sta-bil would resolve the water issue in PA-6 tanks. Above I mainly wanted to point out that Sta-bil won't refresh fuel which has lost volatility and started to varnish. The FAQ clearly states this.

As for protecting components, never had to replace a diaphragm in a CV Bing carb which is really saying something. All my pals inevitably did. 

As for the isopropanol, since (1) fl. oz. of Sta-bil treats 5 US Gal., the concentration is minuscule. In fact, pure gas detergent additive packages may well contain more alcohols. There has got to be a HUGE difference between a trace concentration of alcohols vs a full 10% of ethanol. Nasty..., and the ultimate waste and boondoggle...

Anyway, as long as the PA-6 tank issue really is caused by H2O and not alcohols themselves... Do we know this for a fact?

Has anyone with a PEX tank ever experienced issues from running E-5, etc., etc.?

Best Regards!

[ducatiz]

Anyway, as long as the PA-6 tank issue really is caused by H2O and not alcohols themselves... Do we know this for a fact?

This is based on several things:

1.  Manufacturers of PA6 and other polyamides state that Nylon-6 is impervious to alcohol.  Meanwhile, they state that it absorbs water.  There are plenty of "material compatibility sheets" on the web.

2.  I set up a test in my garage using a tank from a monster.  It was a virgin tank.  I made a cabinet which used a dehumidifer rod and about 5 lbs of silica gel dry packs keeping the ambient humidity around 5%.  I filled the gas tank with E85 fuel and left it for 2 months.  No result.

3.  I duplicated the test above but with 50% humidity and E10 gas with a separate tank.  After 40 days, the tank showed about 5% expansion in circumference.

4.  I took a used tank which was replaced from a crashed vehicle.  It had no significant damage except for some cosmetic rash on the right side.  I heated 1 gal of water to 100 deg F and put it in the tank.  The tank swelled overnight to about 10% of the original circumference.

I cannot fully eliminate ethanol as directly interacting with the plastic, however, I felt 2 months was sufficient exposure to E85 to show some sign of interaction if there was any.  In the Minnesota E20 test, they only used E20 and exposed the samples over a span of days and it showed expansion HOWEVER that test was using a protocol which required ambient humidity of 50% +/-5%.

Has anyone with a PEX tank ever experienced issues from running E-5, etc., etc.?

Best Regards!

I've been talking with ppl overseas with these tanks and none have.  Chris' tanks at CA Cycleworks are PEX and there is no expansion reported.

[Curmudgeon]

Thanks! That H2O is the culprit would appear reasonably conclusive, given any "normal" tank usage! Thanks for the PEX info as well. I'll grab a back-up from the EC at my leisure.

[The ModFather]

So I have a 2005 Monster 620 Dark. I did receive "the" letter regarding the class action lawsuit for Monsters made during certain years and my year was listed. I thought my tank was metal as magnets do stick to it but after getting the letter I started wondering if it was plastic inside of metal. Does anyone know a way to find out for sure if my tank is metal or plastic? It would seem logical that if it is plastic I shouldnt leave the tank full all winter due to the possible effects of the ethanol on plastic tanks.

[ducatiz]

So I have a 2005 Monster 620 Dark. I did receive "the" letter regarding the class action lawsuit for Monsters made during certain years and my year was listed. I thought my tank was metal as magnets do stick to it but after getting the letter I started wondering if it was plastic inside of metal. Does anyone know a way to find out for sure if my tank is metal or plastic? It would seem logical that if it is plastic I shouldnt leave the tank full all winter due to the possible effects of the ethanol on plastic tanks.

magnets will stick to the SIDE of the tank?

not plastic.