Inane ramblings to avoid thread jacking

[Mother]

OK here

lets look at this guy who is using throttle off to slow the motorcycle and not using the brake




specifically on the entrance to 3

[Visolara]

First of all, your watching the all time douchebag, bill "maxipad" sizmar (or some shit) filming Mitchel Pierce.

Second, he is recording Mitchell Piece (Elias, remember that guy we watched from T1 who was backing it in during the endurance race a couple years back?  this is him) who is known for his "backing it in" riding style.  There are lots of footage of him on youtube.  He is an amazing rider.

Thirdly, eat shit and die. 

[Mother]

First of all, your watching the all time douchebag, bill "maxipad" sizmar (or some shit) filming Mitchel Pierce.

Second, he is recording Mitchell Piece (Elias, remember that guy we watched from T1 who was backing it in during the endurance race a couple years back?  this is him) who is known for his "backing it in" riding style.  There are lots of footage of him on youtube.  He is an amazing rider.

Thirdly, eat shit and die. 

yes i know who it is

I stopped working because I remembered the video

"Trailing Mitch"

and I knew it would prove my point

so blow me

i win

rah rah me

[Visolara]

wait, what does his riding style have to do with engine breaking?

[desmosome]

[toolfan]

yes i know who it is
I stopped working because I remembered the video
"Trailing Mitch"
and I knew it would prove my point
so blow me
i win
rah rah me

Your debate fu is weak.  The day you can not only ride like that, but also TEACH ME to ride like that, I'll concede the point.

Until then, It's better to teach how to stop well, and let the student learn how to stop less well on their own.

PS - if engine braking is good, then why would anyone buy a slipper clutch?

PPS - that Mitchell kid is a hoot to watch.

[Mother]

Your debate fu is weak.  The day you can not only ride like that, but also TEACH ME to ride like that, I'll concede the point.

Until then, It's better to teach how to stop well, and let the student learn how to stop less well on their own.

PS - if engine braking is good, then why would anyone buy a slipper clutch?

PPS - that Mitchell kid is a hoot to watch.

that is your argument?

just concede

I have shown that engine braking is indeed a principle part of slowing a motorcycle

as shown by a racer on the track

and you toss in a lame slipper clutch argument?

slipper clutches are a race tool used in bikes with way too much HP for a sane person to ride

and

a street gimmick for repli racers and lazy riders

I say that we are even

Engine braking is real and bears have a bone in their penis

merry christmas

[toolfan]

that is your argument?
just concede
I have shown that engine braking is indeed a principle part of slowing a motorcycle
as shown by a racer on the track
and you toss in a lame slipper clutch argument?
slipper clutches are a race tool used in bikes with way too much HP for a sane person to ride
and
a street gimmick for repli racers and lazy riders
I say that we are even
Engine braking is real and bears have a bone in their penis
merry christmas

Your already weak debate fu weakens with the introduction of a straw man.
I've never claimed that engine braking is a figment of your imagination...
I've claimed that it is not a skill that should be taught, either in beginning riding courses, Code style books or racing school.
It is akin to stating that people need to be taught that a steady speed is attained by holding the throttle in a single position... not only is this self-evident, it's also not entirely true. 

[Visolara]

I have shown that engine braking is indeed a principle part of slowing a motorcycle

as shown by a racer on the track

Mitchel was backing it in by using his rear brake, not engine braking.  Did you not watch the Rossi video I posted?  It explains it very well.

and yes, you still suck.

[ryandalling]

Aren't these arguments a tad too focused to be "inane ramblings" and thus we have truly jacked the unjackable thread. Should we complain that this should be moved into the "Riding techniques" board? I want true inane ramblings here... and not intelligent banter.   

[Buckethead]

I want true inane ramblings here... and not intelligent banter. 

Taco.


 

[bnbmike]

Reading this a day after, and being an average rider and only 1 track day on a bike, but with 15 years auto racing experience in sprint racing and endurance racing I have learned a thing or two about going fast and stopping fast.  As I mostly raced in the slower classes you need to learn how to make a slow car fast.  You do that with the BRAKES!

To stop as fast as you can, clutch in, brakes on.  With this I think we all agree, but who panic stops on a racetrack?

On JB's point, my first ride on a Ducati, I was amazed on how much built in engine braking there is.  You just let off the gas and the bike seems to come to a stop on its own, in gear.  I cannot "coast" with my bike, 750 carby.  If I need to adjust my right mirror, I have to take it out of gear, so I can see how that would surprise anyone, experienced rider (on an inline 4) or not.

The key to going fast is staying on the gas as long as you can and getting on the brakes as hard as you can.  With this I think we can all agree.

My first time driving a heavy, high hp car, an IROC Camero, was at Portland.  I raced VW GTI's previously.  I go out for the first time and drive it like a GTI.  I had the lap record on my 4th lap.  On my 6th lap, I had welded the front brake piston to the rotor, gone through a set of brake pads in 5.5 laps.  Was I fast, you bet.  Have you ever seen a race last 5 laps, nope.  Our race that weekend was 6 hours.

I had to learn how to be fast and save the car.  How do you do that? Engine braking.

Now back to Ducati specific riding, as I have little experience on anything else.  My day-to-day riding is for me, taking my toy out to play.  I do not commute, this is purely fun for me.  I rarely am in "traffic" as I live in the boonies.  I do ride on some pretty awesome roads.  I rarely use my brakes.  I use the compression of the engine and downshift as needed.  Really slow corners, I brake, mostly front brake only, 99% of the time, I learned that on my track day.  When I ride with others and I am leading, I touch the brakes to activate my brake light to let them know I'm slowing down.  As most of us are riding on the street, we do not need to be 100% gas and 100% brakes, we want to be able to move quickly, smoothly and safely.

A Ducati slows it self down more than any other vehicle I have ever seen.  Every bike is different, the fact that all of us have ride a Ducati, at one point, we all have experienced that this is a fact.  I'm sure this surprised us, just like JB.

I am all about learning new things, and I consider myself to be a good teacher of just about anything I know.  I do know this:

There is nothing more unequal as to treat everyone as equals.

People learn differently, have different experiences, and react differently to the same situation.  Saying one way is better than another is wrong.  Finding out what works best for the person you are teaching is the right way.  With that, try what toolfan has to say, if it works for you great, if what you were doing is more comfortable and safer for you than stick to it.  This is an art, not a science, but basic physics does apply.  To become a better rider, ask other people what they do, try it, follow them.  Do you like it?

We are on this board because we like riding Ducati’s and talking about it, we also learn about each other through our postings.  This is fun for us or we wouldn’t be here.  Becoming a better rider is a goal we all share, I would think.  You may not agree with what has been said about this concept, but there are people trying to understand it better.  I don’t see this as an argument, just trying to prove a point.  But, unless you try it you will never know.  When you do try it and don’t like it, then you can use it as experience for when some one asks you.  “I tried it like this and like that, but I didn’t like it, you should try it and see for yourself, you may like it.”

Mo likes to alter his turn in and lean with the gas.  Toolfan just steers his way through a corner.  It doesn’t matter to me, but knowing how to do both will give you the experience to make the call as needed.

When I was actively racing, I took at least one driving school a year.  Near the end, I had way more experience than the instructors, but I always learned something from them that worked for me and I got faster and smoother, a better driver.

[toolfan]

I am all about learning new things, and I consider myself to be a good teacher of just about anything I know.  I do know this:

There is nothing more unequal as to treat everyone as equals.

People learn differently, have different experiences, and react differently to the same situation.  Saying one way is better than another is wrong.  Finding out what works best for the person you are teaching is the right way.  With that, try what toolfan has to say, if it works for you great, if what you were doing is more comfortable and safer for you than stick to it.  This is an art, not a science, but basic physics does apply.  To become a better rider, ask other people what they do, try it, follow them.  Do you like it?

We are on this board because we like riding Ducati’s and talking about it, we also learn about each other through our postings.  This is fun for us or we wouldn’t be here.  Becoming a better rider is a goal we all share, I would think.  You may not agree with what has been said about this concept, but there are people trying to understand it better.  I don’t see this as an argument, just trying to prove a point.  But, unless you try it you will never know.  When you do try it and don’t like it, then you can use it as experience for when some one asks you.  “I tried it like this and like that, but I didn’t like it, you should try it and see for yourself, you may like it.”

I concur  -  to a point.
There are some techniques that are dangerous, there are some things that when taught or not taught in basic motorcycle instruction are blatantly dangerous.

Not coaching someone to use the front brake is blatantly dangerous.  NOT dispelling the myth that the front brakes will send you over the handle bars is blatantly dangerous.  Sure - grabbing the front brake is dangerous - but FAR more people die or are injured from NOT using the front brake then are by improperly using it.
Coaching a brand new rider to let the clutch out between gears during a stop and try to use the engine to brake is dangerous, especially when we are teaching them to quick stop.  As would be teach them to "blip the throttle" for downshifts - it's much safer to let the clutch out slower and smoothly.  Not coaching them how to effectively make a quick stop - AND ingraining that as a skill which requires practice would be blatantly dangerous.  There are other things - like trail braking - that may not be blatantly dangerous, but they are information overload that aren't really appropriate in newb instruction.

(for the record, I still don't let the clutch out between gears, OR blip the throttle for downshifts, as I've found neither technique works well for me.)

The problem with internet forums is - there are a lot of people with a lot of opinions.  Some of these people have well grounded opinions based on years of experience, some are based on something they heard at an ABATE rally... the tough thing is sifting the wheat from the chaff to become a safe rider.

To each their own,


and I'm back out.
 


(oh - and props to bnbmike - driving cars fast is freaking hard.  I can't do that AT ALL.  )

[jdubbs32584]

I'll see y'all around when I come visitin'.

Bye.

[Visolara]

I concur, I push back.

 

Jacob never mentioned this.  Hmmm.