5W-40 Rotella T6 causing clutch slippage?

[metroplex]

Even the water cooled superbikes seemed to spec 15W-50 in the Ducati owner's manuals from 08-up, so that is really confusing.

I asked Mobil about what oil to use in my 696 and they said 20W-50 V-Twin is the correct Mobil oil.

BTW, I looked at the datalogs and with the T6, the RPMs would spike by 1000 RPM for 0.2-0.4 seconds. I think there is still some T6 in the clutches, because I'm slipping by a max of 50-100 RPM for under 0.1 seconds - probably nothing to worry about. Looking at last year's data, I had no noticeable slip according to the datalogs.

[ducatiz]

Even the water cooled superbikes seemed to spec 15W-50 in the Ducati owner's manuals from 08-up, so that is really confusing.

I asked Mobil about what oil to use in my 696 and they said 20W-50 V-Twin is the correct Mobil oil.

BTW, I looked at the datalogs and with the T6, the RPMs would spike by 1000 RPM for 0.2-0.4 seconds. I think there is still some T6 in the clutches, because I'm slipping by a max of 50-100 RPM for under 0.1 seconds - probably nothing to worry about. Looking at last year's data, I had no noticeable slip according to the datalogs.

in a wet clutch, the plates are spinning pretty fast and they actually spin off most of the oil pretty quickly.  if you've changed the oil, you can be sure the T6 isn't lurking around, it's fully diluted

[metroplex]

Hmmm, well I still had some T6 in the oil filter but it isn't a lot. I didn't want to mess with that can of worms since the KN-153 was newly installed and isn't leaking. I'll just keep an eye on it for now, the spikes weren't all that big or long in duration and I certainly didn't feel or hear anything while performing the shifts.

It could have just been an anomaly, but when I dealt with clutch packs in my Ford limited slip differentials, they needed to soak in friction modifiers before installation.

[ducpainter]

i wonder if it is just polished or if there is any coating on the bearing.

years ago when i did vw engines, i got the cam and crank bearings and lifters coated in a bake-on SFL by HPC in Oklahoma.  The difference was noticeable almost right away, oil temps were about 20-30 deg less in an otherwise stock bug engine. 

the 20w will actually cling more to the vertical head but it's really too heavy for that application.

It isn't coated.

Plain aluminum.

[metroplex]

It should be cold enough today to try a cold start (30-40F) with the 20W-50. I rode it again over the weekend and the shifts are fine and smooth. I did notice the engine sounds kind of loud while idling even when the oil was at operating temp (260F-280F).

[theprocess]

So what was the final verdict on the Mobil 1 20w50?

[metroplex]

It works great. I talked to the dealership owner and he recommended even going to 10W-60 for the Monster engine in the summer.

I think aside from the fact that Shell Advance Ultra 4 15W-50 isn't available in the US, is the fact that many Ducati owners of pre-08 models insist that 10W-40 is the correct weight oil because that is what it says in their manual. For 08-up Ducati models, the manual says 15W-50 and the viscosity chart is also there which confuses many people. I think the engine feels/shifts properly with the Mobil 1 20W-50, although I'd probably be more comfortable in the cold with a 15W-50 or 10W-50.

[ducatiz]

The viscosity chart shouldn't confuse people (i'm sure it does though) provided you're in the right temperature range.

[theprocess]

It works great. I talked to the dealership owner and he recommended even going to 10W-60 for the Monster engine in the summer.

I think aside from the fact that Shell Advance Ultra 4 15W-50 isn't available in the US, is the fact that many Ducati owners of pre-08 models insist that 10W-40 is the correct weight oil because that is what it says in their manual. For 08-up Ducati models, the manual says 15W-50 and the viscosity chart is also there which confuses many people. I think the engine feels/shifts properly with the Mobil 1 20W-50, although I'd probably be more comfortable in the cold with a 15W-50 or 10W-50.

Glad to hear. Thanks for the update. Seems like 15w50 (in any brand) is pretty hard to come by locally and most shops recommend 10w40 even the dealership uses 10w40 (Elf). Maybe I'll give the Mobil1 20w50 a shot on my next oil change.

[theprocess]

Anyone with experience using Motul 7100 20w50 in an 08+? (search pulled no results)

[thought]

take a look at this:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wisdom/74198-case-using-mobil-1-15w-50-automobile-oil-motorcycle.html

I'm using it but I have a dry clutch... but it should be ok with wet clutches too as it doesnt have any friction modifiers.

[Curmudgeon]

take a look at this:

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wisdom/74198-case-using-mobil-1-15w-50-automobile-oil-motorcycle.html

I'm using it but I have a dry clutch... but it should be ok with wet clutches too as it doesnt have any friction modifiers.

Vincent,

What you are using is the oil Mobil 1 makes for older cars which need 1200 ppm ZDDP for their valve trains. In your bike it should be fine. I'd use it in my Morgan and D-90 if I couldn't get BG Sheer Power.

As for wet clutches, it's a toss-up since Mobil 1 doesn't give it a motorcycle rating. Too bad they fell out with Triumph and no longer make 15W50 Racing 4T. Mobil 1 now suggests using 20W50 V-Twin for that application. Bikes ridden in freezing temps should probably use the 10W40 4T. (Not many people I should think!  )

Read this ADV post. Most of it is accurate. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4482605&postcount=13

BTW, my dealer uses automotive Red Line 15W50. Based on his years of racing, he uses nothing else. It's a more expensive ester-based synthetic and he knows it to be harmless to wet clutches.

Regards!

[thought]

Thanks for the info William 

I was thinking about switching to Motul or one of the other fully ester based oils... but Amazon had a great deal on the 15w-50, around $50 for 6 quarts and a $12 rebate with free shipping.  And I've finally started to do some track days so I wanted a heavier weight oil in there for a bit more protection vs the Rotella I ran in there before.

It's been working great for me so far... and I feel that as long as I'm changing the oil out every 3000 miles, any modern quality oil should be pretty solid.

[Curmudgeon]

Hmmm... You should be OK as long as your valves are not too snug. What does Ducati recommend for that thing?

Mobil 1 is pretty decent. 0W40 warranty REQUIRED for Benz, Porsche, et al. For track, 15W50 vs 4T Racing 10W40 is a trade off. The 4T produces less friction, so less heat anyway. Just sorry Mobil dropped the 4T 15W50. I'll put V-Twin in the Bonneville and stick with Red Line 15W50 in the 2V in this VA heat.

A 4V really shouldn't "need" xxW50 and it might even rob a little power, but Mobil 1 15W50 isn't likely to "hurt" anything. It won't be 50W anyway unless things get REALLY hot and you have water cooling for that.

3,000 mile drain intervals should be fine if you're missing shifts.   I'm leaving the Red Line in for 6,000 as the bike is stored in a dry garage and while I ride briskly, I'm not wearing the clutch much or leaving other debris in the oil. It's rated for 12,000 miles and won't break down. Red Line claims 25% more viscosity vs a petroleum 15W50. $12+/qt. of course.

Stay safe!

[H-2 CHARLIE]

  I  use Motul Etech type 4 syn , Rotella claims full syn but is only a type 3 oil , older boxer motors like 20-50 because the dont rev high . the older airheads love valvoline VR because it has the most ZZDP  stuff for the older valve train . I think 20-50 wt. can make a L twin duc rev slower and run hotter . If your clutch slips change your clutch springs .