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Battery voltage trouble, 16v...

Started by Monsterlover, April 08, 2012, 04:54:33 PM

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Monsterlover

April 08, 2012, 04:54:33 PM
Ktm 950 smr but I think the issue is my battery tender. See what you guys think. Here's what I posted on adv...


Well, here's what's going on. These are the details as best as I can remember them. Most from the last two days.

-Fall 2011, bike is starting intermittently. Discussion with the guys at Five Star led me to buy a new battery as the oem one was 5 years old and the bike sat a lot early in it's life. Starting issue solved.

-I put the bike away for the winter intending to start it a few times a month to keep it cleaned out and fresh-ish fuel in the jets. I never ended up doing this and when I finally did get to it it ran on only one cylinder.

-I pulled the carbs and left them at Five Star for cleaning. Jeremy said there was a ton of gunk in there and that they were definitely due for a cleaning.

-I put the carbs back on and finally got to try and start it yesterday. I drained all the old fuel and put in fresh 93 oct. The bike cranked and cranked and cranked and not even a pop! With or without the choke, full throttle or no throttle. I let it sit.

-I start wondering about the fuel pump. I haven't heard it click at all since I did the carb install. With my hand on the pump I can feel it "jerk" when I turn the key to run, but it won't pump up. Disconnecting the fuel line and depressing the white plastic nozzle on the carb side of the line let out fuel so I know some fuel was getting to that side of the connector, just not sure if it was making it to the carbs. I think gravity would be enough to get fuel past the quick disconnect.

-More cranking. No fuel smell at all from either exhaust pipe. I pull the airbox lid (tank still on) and try again. No fuel smell from either carb throat.

-More cranking from frustration which then leads to smoke coming from the starter relay area. Im pretty sure it is some electrical tape I had put on the battery lead. Solenoid will click when i thumb the starter every time, but now the bike will not crank at all. Just clicking.

-I should mention that this whole time the bike has been on a battery tender (since it was installed in the fall) I thought maybe I had drained it enough to keep the relay from working so I turn my attention back to the fuel pump.

-Pull the pump for inspection. Can't really get at the internals so I just undid the screws and sanded all the connections. I moved the plunger up and down to confirm it was free to move.

-Reinstall; the pump and still the bike will not crank, and the pump will not click at all. So basically no change.

-I figure I'll have to get the bike to Five Star somehow.

-Today- I get to thinking about the starter solenoid. I look it over. It seems fine, fuse is good, clicks reliably.

-I notice the battery tender is blinking green (more than 80% charge) It should be solid green (full charge, maintenance mode) since it's been plugged in since the day before (when I cranked the daylights out of it)

I check the battery with a digital meter. 16.xx volts. I unplug the battery tender. 15.5v and rising. WTF.

During all this I turn the key (to check voltage with the starter depressed) and doesn't the pump click like it should and the bike cranks and pretty much starts. I get it running with some choke and measure 16.xx volts while it's running.

-With an uneasy feeling I pull the battery. It's resting voltage seems to be 15.75 volts. Not wanting any trouble I put it in a metal container and put it outside.

I don't even know what questions to ask.

WTF is going on?!?!?!
---------------------------------
And a followup post I made just now...


Something else troubling that I just discovered :

The batter tender I had on the 950 puts out 16.7v with it plugged into the bike.

A different tender I have plugged into my 450exc (also a new battery in the fall) sseems to put out 15.5v. So far no issues with the 450 but I've only been out on it once so far.

The outlet I had the 950's tender plugged into shows 135v on the meter.

"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

NAKID

#1
April 08, 2012, 09:22:01 PM
OK, can't help you with the questions, but why would you start the bike with the tender plugged in? I'm pretty sure when I bought mine it said to unplug it before starting...
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

Monsterlover

#2
April 09, 2012, 04:15:46 AM
Ive always done that. I unplug it after the bike is running.  So its probably a few seconds. 

On a related note- I retested the battery before I went to bed last night. 

0v. Battery is toast.

The big question is why.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Howie

#3
April 09, 2012, 04:36:15 AM
Naked is correct.  The tender is for charging only, not jump starting.  You could have damaged the tender.  If the battery is strong enough the tender will be fine.  Weak enough, damage can occur.  Keep that overcharging tender away from the bike.  It will damage the battery and can damage bulbs and electronics.

If you bypass the solenoid does it crank?  Substitute a known good battery.  Yes you can use your car battery as long as the car is not running.  Make triple sure the bike is in neutral.  If so, check the connections where you smelled smoke.

Since the bike is carburated I assume the fuel pump is low pressure/volume.  Remove the fuel line to the carbs, put that line in a suitable vessel, wire the pump directly and see if it works.

Load test the battery.  Your voltage reading only tells you state of charge, not if the battery has the capacity to start the bike.

Oh, you just posted.  Overcharging can kill a battery.  0 volts is rare, but possible.  When you get the new battery do not crank for more than 10 seconds at a time.  Starter motors are not rated for continuous use and can overheat.



phishhead1

#4
April 09, 2012, 10:40:36 PM
did you use the same multimeter to check the battery and a/c voltage at outlet? Your reading of 135v at the outlet is a little high. Should read somewhere between 115-127v in most residential settings. try changeing the battery in your meter you may be getting a false reading. It happent to me all the time, I am an electrician and that is the first sign the batt in my meter is bad (high readings).  as for the mechanical issues there are way smarter people on this board than me when it comes to that. After all thats why im here to take advise from all the wise folks here.  Hope my imput is useful.
06 S2R 1000
84 vf700f interceptor

Monsterlover

#5
April 10, 2012, 04:06:50 AM
Ill give it a shot, thanks.

Btw I called battery tender and they said the output should be no more than 15.5v
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#6
April 10, 2012, 11:12:23 AM
I brought the suspect tender up to the shop today and compared it to the tender I keep on the fork lift.

Output is the same.  I didn't get a new battery for my meter yet, but I suspect it's needing replaced.  I have had that meter probably 15 years and I can't remember putting a new 9v in it ever.

Also, to address the starting the bike with the tender plugged in I checked their website.

"Can you leave the tender plugged in while the battery is in use?

Yes, you can leave the Battery Tender Plus battery charger connected to a battery even when the battery is being used. As far as the Battery Tender Plus battery charger is concerned, the appliance just makes the battery look like it's not fully charged. The Battery Tender Plus battery charger can supply up to its full 1.25 amp current output even while its output voltage is at the lower, float level of 13.2 volts. It is only when the battery voltage drops below somewhere between 12.0 and 12.5 volts that the Battery Tender Plus battery charger will reset and begin the full charger cycle. All that means is that when the appliance is no longer being used by the battery, the battery voltage will rise normally and there will be an absorption period of a few hours where the Battery Tender Plus battery charger holds the battery voltage at 14.4 volts until the charger current drops to below 0.1 amp, or until 8 hours has elapsed during the absorption charge period. Then the Battery Tender Plus battery charger goes back into float mode where its output voltage is constant at only 13.2 volts. "
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

NAKID

#7
April 10, 2012, 06:14:35 PM
Battery in use is a little different than when the bike is running. The bike is trying to charge the battery when it's running too.
2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

Monsterlover

#8
April 10, 2012, 06:26:24 PM
Yeah i get that.

I've started bikes hundreds of times plugged into a tender. No issues. I don't leave it run that way for long though.

Anyhow, seems my battery is fine.

My meter is a little off kilter

Now looking closely at the starter solenoid or a bad ground/battery connection.

I came home tonight, threw the battery back in the bike. Hit the starter, the solenoid clicked, then sizzles and then the bike cranked and started right up...
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

NAKID

#9
April 10, 2012, 09:36:17 PM
So the battery is no longer reading "0" volts?

2005 S2R800
2006 S2R1000
2015 Monster 821

ducpainter

#10
April 11, 2012, 04:04:12 AM
Quote from: Monsterlover on April 10, 2012, 06:26:24 PM
Yeah i get that.

I've started bikes hundreds of times plugged into a tender. No issues. I don't leave it run that way for long though.

Anyhow, seems my battery is fine.

My meter is a little off kilter

Now looking closely at the starter solenoid or a bad ground/battery connection.

I came home tonight, threw the battery back in the bike. Hit the starter, the solenoid clicked, then sizzles and then the bike cranked and started right up...
The sizzle is a pretty strong indicator of a bad connection.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Monsterlover

#11
April 11, 2012, 06:50:33 AM
Quote from: NAKID on April 10, 2012, 09:36:17 PM
So the battery is no longer reading "0" volts?



13.2

I need a new meter.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#12
April 11, 2012, 06:52:38 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on April 11, 2012, 04:04:12 AM
The sizzle is a pretty strong indicator of a bad connection.

I thought so too.

Ill clean and tighten all the connections o can get at.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**
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