Generally a bad idea to ride in twisties at night?

[mrpetebojangles]

Hey all,

Occasionally after work I enjoy a good romp through the mountains in my area when the sun is down. This evening, after a long 9 hour day at work, I was simply in the mood for a good, quick ride before packing my baby up for the evening. I wasn't tired after work, but instead energized being on my bike... finally. I do this ride often, but tonight in particular gave me thrills and chills. It was a pretty dark night, and even with the brights on, I couldn't see too far ahead of me. I was unable to look through the turns as much as I normally would be able to in the broad daylight. So my eyes followed the yellow and white lines through turns as far as I could make them out. Which I'm assuming through most turns was only 20-50 feet? The headlight seems to be pointed fairly downward, I assume so you can see the more immediate obstacles in your path?

I only have a little over 2k miles on my monster and this is my first bike.

First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads, as I used to live in the mountains that they lead to. It's a drive I did nearly daily in my car for a few years, so I'm not simply throwing myself at some unpredictable turns. A lot of turns have a recommended vehicle turn speed of 30mph and I usually take them at 45-58 or so mph while feeling fairly confident at that speed. I've noticed that within myself, it's easier to get visually latched onto an object such as a guard rail or incoming car more easily, with less to see in front of you. I enjoy riding this road at night as there are less cars to compete with etc.

Any tips for cornering at night?

Any general cornering tips as well? I feel as if many corners I take real well and have to only make a couple adjustments in turn, but some I feel like I throw my monster around too much, and I can feel it wobble beneath me, as if I'm too aggressive at the handlebars? Could this also indicate that I'm in too high of a gear if the bike doesn't feel as solid in the turn? I was going about 50 in 3rd gear for most of the turns.

One pretty ass clenching experience happened recently when I was exiting a freeway off-ramp that had one lane as the other was being worked on, and I was cornering with good line of sight, looking through the turn as I ought to, and then my right boot touched concrete a few times. I generally try very hard to ride on the ball of my foot, but I was in a pretty heavy lean. It was a good learning experience as I now raise my heels in tight corners to hopefully prevent that. I kept my cool when it happened, but I was a bit shaky thinking about it afterwards...

I appreciate any feedback!

[stopintime]

Night riding is different and will feel different.
Decisions are based on less and closer information, so it's
just to be expected that riding will lack flow.

If your vision is limited to 50 feet, I don't think it's a good idea to do 50 mph.

Maybe you need to adjust your headlight?

[hunduc]

"First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads"

even with the deer standing in the middle of the road? they usually come out after sunset... if you go so fast that your stopping distance is longer than what you can see, you are screwed anyway. all other techniques are basically irrelevant imho.

[sofadriver]

mount two PIAA 1100's and aim them high and towards the outside.  when you lean they'll light up that dark area you're riding in to.  PIAA 1100's are awesome for this app.  good deals on complete 2 light kits can be found on e-bay.
you'll love 'em!

[Drjones]

General saying is don't over ride your sight lines.  Meaning if you can only see 50 yards ahead don't ride faster than the distance it takes to stop in 50 yards.  It won't matter if you "know the roads" if there's "stuff" in your lane and you don't see it in time to stop or steer around.  "Stuff" being sand, oil, water, rocks, dead animals, blown out retreads, ladders, gray aliens, rebar, etc., etc.  Public roads have a tendency to become trash bins at times.

[Ducatamount]

"First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads"

even with the deer standing in the middle of the road? they usually come out after sunset... if you go so fast that your stopping distance is longer than what you can see, you are screwed anyway. all other techniques are basically irrelevant imho.

  I agree with you 100% but a critter crash can happen anytime as I was taken out by a deer in the middle of the afternoon and don't feel like there was much I could have done defensively.She hit me in my front left tunsignal like she was shot out of a cannon and I was second out of three bikes doing 45mph.I now have a love/hate relationship with wildlife.
At night keep an eye out for light reflecting/glowing eyeballs.Although moose eyes don't reflect light.
The older you get the worse your night vision so I limit my night riding and dial it back if I have to do it.

[El Matador]

Generally a bad idea? Not necessarily.

For you? YES

Dude, you have 2k miles under your belt. Unless they have all been at the track, there's absolutely no way you're past the getting to know the basics stage. You might think you are, but you're not. The added distractions of everything else you have to be aware of for night riding are too much for you right now.

I don't mean to be an ass about it, but you really shouldn't be trying that for another few thousand miles.

[Slide Panda]

On thing not mentioned yet is that at night, your headlight will be pointed the wrong freakin' direction during any turns requiring counter steering.

Think about it, you're leaned left - you've pushed the bars so the front wheel, and light and pointed right, which is now right and up due to the lean. So you're going left, your beam of light on a Monster is going up and right... yeah.

First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads,

Hubris... look it up.

You're at a really dangerous stage for riders. You're gaining confidence (good) but your skills, unless you'rea freak of nature, are not keeping pace with your confidence. In a graph that shows instances of riders crashing vs miles traveled in relation to years of experience there's a huge spike towards the mid and end of year 1. Right where you are.

So easy speedy - Understand pushing your limits. But night riding brings the risk curves WAY up

[RAT900]

Plus 1 on the critter factor in darkness, 

I used to dodge beach ball sized raccoons and their families crossing at 4-5 a.m.

when I would head out early for Toad's Wild Ride on my very-familiar-to-me roads

coming up a favorite rising turn at speed and leaned way in and seeing a line of road hazards......

well....it can be thought provoking

just trading off 4 wheeled hazards for 4 legged ones

trying to get a clean run for a few hours

ride safe, ride smart, live long enough to realize how lucky you are

[mrpetebojangles]

First of all, I don't think of myself as a freak of nature master rider at 2000 miles, which is why I posted here. I've been commuting nearly every day to work on my monster, but otherwise don't have very much other experience than freeway and around town driving. I'm looking forward to maybe a track day or two this summer. Also, I don't feel like I'm driving recklessly fast. All of the speeds I'm at I deem appropriate for the turns etc.

[Nomad]

All of the speeds I'm at I deem appropriate for the turns etc.

Everybody does, until they don't 

[Slide Panda]

ba dum kish...

Pete - do you have any more experienced like minded rider buddies? It can be useful to go out with someone more skilled and see what they do, follow their lines and possibly even have them follow you for a bit to provide feed back. Even better if you can get a camera in behind you - the lens doesn't lie and it can be a good learning tool.

Just keep your level head. You're being smart and seeking advice - just keep being smart.

[BMiller]

First time I ever rode the Dragon, it was at 2AM since I rode in for that trip and my route took me across it.  I almost got broad sided by a deer that at about 1' from hitting me turned, ran along side me, and then back into the woods.  I didn't pass a single car and had my light not been on if I wrecked, there is a strong chance it would have been a LONG time before I was found.  Night rides can be nice, but stay away from the technical stuff and dial it down a notch or two.

[Curmudgeon]

ba dum kish...

Pete - do you have any more experienced like minded rider buddies? It can be useful to go out with someone more skilled and see what they do, follow their lines and possibly even have them follow you for a bit to provide feed back. Even better if you can get a camera in behind you - the lens doesn't lie and it can be a good learning tool.

Just keep your level head. You're being smart and seeking advice - just keep being smart.

 

[Moronic]

First of all, I'm extremely familiar with these roads, as I used to live in the mountains that they lead to. It's a drive I did nearly daily in my car for a few years, so I'm not simply throwing myself at some unpredictable turns.

Hi mrpete,

I enjoy riding at night and over a road riding career spanning 35 years have done multiple 300-mile or (much) longer night rides, which have often included twisty road work. Yes, it can be a lot of fun.

However, I would endorse everything said by other posters above.

One thing I would want to add is that your familiarity with these roads very likely adds risk for you, rather than reducing it. You will be making more assumptions, and there is nothing you can do about that: it is simply human nature.

So, big thrills, but big risks.

Any tips for cornering at night?

Any general cornering tips as well? I feel as if many corners I take real well and have to only make a couple adjustments in turn, but some I feel like I throw my monster around too much, and I can feel it wobble beneath me, as if I'm too aggressive at the handlebars? Could this also indicate that I'm in too high of a gear if the bike doesn't feel as solid in the turn? I was going about 50 in 3rd gear for most of the turns.

Riding tall gears is the way to go, IMO. Makes the throttle a lot less responsive, which is good for smoothness and grip.

One cornering tip I would give you for day and night is to relax and think about your overall progress down the road, rather than about your speed through particular corners.

That is, think about threading the corners together, and take your pleasure from doing that smoothly.

One tip specifically about cornering at night is that if you slip off the bike and wind up lying off the side of the road with broken bones and road rash, it could be a long time before anybody notices. 

Sorry to end on a gloomy note, but I've always thought that would be a sad way to go out, and some certainly have gone that way.