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Is this flywheel nut torque a typo??

Started by BK_856er, June 24, 2012, 07:19:56 PM

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BK_856er

June 24, 2012, 07:19:56 PM
Reassembling my 749s and planned to use 190Nm with red loctite on the big flywheel nut...

Torque wrench in hand, I took a quick look at the factory binder and it shows 270Nm (see below).

That seems way too high to me!

Looking for verification before I do something stoopid here.  Am I confusing the entries, factory typo, or???

BK

ducatiz

#1
June 24, 2012, 07:46:29 PM Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 07:53:34 PM by ducatiz
Same in my manuals.  -min 245, max 284 mine says (749 manual)

270 nm for the generator rotor nut.

Use blue loctite, not red.  Red not needed.

i think the later models use 270.  my 749 manual and a HMT manual i pickedup both say 270, but the 2005 MTS and Monster S2R manuals say 190.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

BK_856er

#2
June 24, 2012, 10:08:37 PM
Thanks, man.  270Nm seems to be on target.

Ducshop had this to say a few years ago on a different board after recommending 230Nm, moly under the flange and red loctite for 3-phase systems:

"If there was a fastener that was never to be removed then it shouldn't be a fastener, thats why we weld or rivet parts together. Red isn't that permenent and you only need to heat it some, would not do in an otherwise similar aplication but the ducati nut does not match the crank threads very well and they have a history of coming loose.

The torque spec gets raised every few years (started at 176Nm) and now in the 1098 shop manual states to torqe to 300Nm with Shell #5 red loctite. Ducati Corse has been using red for the last 10 years at 200Nm, I used it all my years in AMA Superbike taking engines apart every 1000Km, we never had one come loose and never had a problem getting one off."

Now to figure out the safest way to immobilize the flywheel...

BK


ducpainter

#3
June 25, 2012, 03:28:19 AM
I'd use the red loctite.

It's what my tech uses on that nut.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#4
June 25, 2012, 06:57:00 AM
Quote from: BK_856er on June 24, 2012, 10:08:37 PM

Now to figure out the safest way to immobilize the flywheel...

BK

I've been tempted to get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Nocord-Digital-Control-DigiWrench-WWT-1430/dp/B0014JL5YQ

Set the digital scale and go.

I rarely use red loctite.  I have found that a clean thread and blue is sufficient for 90% of applications that state to use Red and IIRC that nut doesn't require loctite at all... just a personal thing.  I still use tabbed washers too.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#5
June 25, 2012, 08:25:09 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on June 25, 2012, 06:57:00 AM
I've been tempted to get one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Nocord-Digital-Control-DigiWrench-WWT-1430/dp/B0014JL5YQ

Set the digital scale and go.

I rarely use red loctite.  I have found that a clean thread and blue is sufficient for 90% of applications that state to use Red and IIRC that nut doesn't require loctite at all... just a personal thing.  I still use tabbed washers too.


I'd rather a tabbed washer than loctite.

That said, every shop I know of uses the red on nuts that can have catastrophic results if they fail.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#6
June 25, 2012, 08:35:00 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 25, 2012, 08:25:09 AM
I'd rather a tabbed washer than loctite.

That said, every shop I know of uses the red on nuts that can have catastrophic results if they fail.

Blue actually has nearly the same engagement strength with enough thread coverage.  It's a matter of taste, for me.  I hate having to cook stuff to remove it.

Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#7
June 25, 2012, 08:43:53 AM
...and I guess it's a matter of liability for them.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


DBEng

#8
June 26, 2012, 04:58:20 AM
Does the 'Engine Oil' note next to the torque spec mean the factory uses 270Nm and engine oil on the thread (no loctite)?
2010 M696+
Hyosung GT250 (gone)

ducatiz

#9
June 26, 2012, 05:38:20 AM
Quote from: DBEng on June 26, 2012, 04:58:20 AM
Does the 'Engine Oil' note next to the torque spec mean the factory uses 270Nm and engine oil on the thread (no loctite)?

Yes.  Partly why I wouldn't use red.  The manual specs no thread lock at all.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

battlecry

#10
June 26, 2012, 11:46:22 AM
There is a fellow at ADVRider called Dirty Sanchez who is a loctite rep and answers questions about the products.

IIRC, loctite use does not change the wet torque values. 

Here's the continuing thread:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265016&page=33
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