Good form vs bad form - photos

[mszilves]

we both made the first knee down today..

Form is looking good, and I hate to be the guy that says it, but please take it to the track. At those speeds and lean angles, there is no reserve in case of emergency on the road. This was me a few years ago until I took the same advice. Way more fun and safer at the track where all you have to worry about is picking the best lines and improving your skill, and there are no cars and speeding tickets to worry about. [End safety rant]

[mr.freezer]

We know.. but its kind of difficult and expensive to ride on a track... we have one track in slovakia...

[Skybarney]

Slovakia!  Screw it ride like you want        

[Mundman]

Need track time

[pesto]

So I had an "incident" last track day: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65506.0 and Slide Panda suggested I post photos here. No professional photographer at the track, so this is the best I got (pretty damned good from my wife if you ask me). Anyway, something happened and I lost the rear on one of the turns. I also feel like I'm fighting the bike with my arms while trying to stay on the bike by hanging on to the handlebars in the turns. My arms, shoulders, and pecs are tired after a few sessions (30mins on this day).

Anyway, comments appreciated. The only obvious things I see in the pic are my left foot needs to be angled out more and I need to get more off my butt off of the seat.

[ChrisK]

If your arms, shoulders, and pecs are that sore, it probably means you need to either work on your core strength (exercises, etc.), or if your core is already strong, use it more. Hold yourself off the bike with your back and abs, and legs, not your arms. This will help with precise steering and wrist movements.

[Slide Panda]

Are the sessions 30 minutes each? Wow, that's long if so. Probably a bit over long potentially.

As you self reported and Chris noted - your arms and chest should not be tired like your doing push-ups or fighting the bike. A tried right fore arm and arm pump... ok that's part of the game. Tires shoulders from working to keep your elbows up and hands light on the bars - ok there too. But tired chest, anterior and medial delts, and upper arms is definetly a sign you need to put more weight into your pegs and grip the bike with you legs more and in turn support your upper torso with your core.

Besides making you tired - being havey on the bars will slow the handling of the bike, rattle you around, and possibly decrease traction if you're getting in the way of the bike sorting itself out.

[pesto]

I was thinking something along those lines. I'm working on strengthening my core and my legs too. Thanks for the advice!

Because there were so few riders, they combined levels 1 and 2 into one group and set up 30min sessions. It was a really loose open track day. The only reason I was there was that my more organized track day, which I attended with very experienced friends, was rained out. My buddies went back the next day but I had to come back the next week at a completely different event. It was just an "open track" day.

[Slide Panda]

More organize - in what fashion?

So, 30 minute sessions are pretty damn long, especially when your pace starting coming up. But this sounds like an exception vs the rule.

And yes, work those legs and that core - Imagine that you'll be mostly hovering on the saddle, with it taking just some of your weight vs. sitting on it, with the bulk of your weight on it.

For arms, one trick I was taught was 'chicken wings' - You should be able to move your arms up and down in a chicken wing sort of motion, while traveling in a straight line, without impacting your control of the bike (throttle or steering) nor your torso position. If you've got your weight going through your arms, you won't be able to 'flap' them

[pesto]

More organize - in what fashion?

So, 30 minute sessions are pretty damn long, especially when your pace starting coming up. But this sounds like an exception vs the rule.

And yes, work those legs and that core - Imagine that you'll be mostly hovering on the saddle, with it taking just some of your weight vs. sitting on it, with the bulk of your weight on it.

For arms, one trick I was taught was 'chicken wings' - You should be able to move your arms up and down in a chicken wing sort of motion, while traveling in a straight line, without impacting your control of the bike (throttle or steering) nor your torso position. If you've got your weight going through your arms, you won't be able to 'flap' them

More organized in that there were distinct levels that we signed up for rather than "if you want to ride fast go now, if not wait 30mins", stickers on the bike, corner workers got there on time, etc... .

In a straight line I grip the tank hard with my knees. I throttle with one hand and juggle with the other and be ok. The problem is in the corners, I can't squeeze with my knees because one knee is hanging off of the side of the bike. Going into a turn, I lean my upper body toward the mirror. I think here I was putting weight on the bars when I do this instead of holding myself up with my core.

[BoDiddley]

Tired shoulders from working to keep your elbows up and hands light on the bars - ok there too.

Slide : I have been working on keeping my elbows in, when you say up, what are you referring to?  Should I not be.

[Slide Panda]

Reading back here:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=58317.msg1178555#msg1178555
Might help

One good visual I can think of - watch (most) GP and other high level racers when they are on the brakes, straight up and down, before any tip in. You'll see their elbows are not inline from their shoulders to their hands, but the arm is rotated at the shoulder so the elbow is 'up' and flexed.

An easy thing to try - go to a counter height surface, step right up to it and hold your elbows to your sides and try to put you whole hand, palm down, flat on the surface.
Can be done, but takes some efforts and isn't so comfy - right?

Now relax and do it again.
Where are your elbows in relation to before when you hand them forced to your side?
Really, only one way they can go but...  Ahhh yes... they have moved up and out as you rotated at the shoulder to allow your hands to lay flat more easily

Now, assuming your fingers are roughly parallel from one hand to the other when you put your hands on the counter, find the easiest way to end up with your hands aligned so that an imaginary straight line from the fingers of each hand would intersect and a right angle.
Hmm, flexing the wrist isn't the easy way...
But if I rotate a bit more at the shoulder, and my elbows come up just a bit more - Bam that right angle's formed.

So now take the right hand and close it up like you would on a screw driver handle and give it a twist - icer ans easy huh? Fine control right?
That's your throttle!

So, elbows up!

[Slide Panda]

Alright! First time outside of a demo ride on a real sport bike!

http://leediehrphotography.smugmug.com/Summit-Point-10-28-2013/n-Kpxrg/i-djcF553
- Can post the image directly, deal

Still getting used to it, but went pretty well for feeling out a new steed

[Monsterlover]

Nice choice of motos!

[Slide Panda]

Ok, got copies of the images.



- Little hard to see what's going on in the photo. But self eval
The bad
 - More practice time... only riding a tiny bit this year
 - Still adjusting the new bike and adjusting too it made things a little awkward
 - Hips are tight keeping the leg closer in than I might hope.

The good
 - Did pretty well keeping light hands on the bars at all times. Legs are sore, core's a bit tired ams and shoulders are just ducky!
 - did decently at keeping my torso low and over the grips.

And other thoughts?