Good form vs bad form - photos

[Slide Panda]

Ok, these are from a recent track day at Summit Point in WV - photos by 'KnockOut Photos'
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.195084100619550.39786.188693157925311&type=3
- Don't know the photog, but they did manage to collect up some good shots that show good and bad.



First - good

Here we see:
- Body inside the centerline.
- Bent/flexed arms.
- Looking through the turn
- Screw-driver hands

Result - even in a tight course with a good bit of speed this fellow has plenty of lean (and traction) left for more speed or dealing with changes in direction, braking, or acceleration.

Now- the bad

Here we see:
- Body crossed up. Knee down, but shoulders are outside of the bike
- Straight arms

Result - Speeds and line look similar to the fellow in the orange helmet, but this fellow has his bike leaned a lot more. He's reduced his available traction and ability to make changes or accelerate out.

For humility - here's me


What we see.
- Lower speeds not requiring as much lean
- Bit further back on the bike that ideal
- arms (elbows) a bit low
- Bike has Plenty of potential for more speed in this curve... rider, we'll see.

[Triple J]

I'll contribute, and use myself as an example. Trackday photos are a great way to assess your riding, and make changes.  

Anyone else can chime in on what they see as well...like I said, photos are a great way to learn!

This is a photo of me during a race last season, on my old 748:



Knee firmly on the ground, but I'm still pretty much over the centerline of the bike, which means I'm running out of lean angle prematurely. Not good. Also, my outer arm, while bent, is stiff and not relaxed. Again, not good, as this arm is inadvertently fighting my inside arm which is providing the steering input.

This is a photo of me during a race a couple weeks ago, on a buddie's R6 (my 749 was/is in the shop).



Still far from perfect, but much better. My body is a lot further off of the inside of the bike, and my outside arm is relaxed and resting on the tank, so not interfering with steering inputs. Also, the ball of my foot is on the peg, so despite a pretty good lean angle, I'm not close to dragging my toes. Still plenty of lean angle left. The bad (still  ) is I'm a tad crossed up...but not terribly.

[sofadriver]

For humility - here's me

While I'm busy trying to get a knee down I usually get passed on the outside by a marshall  riding a SuperMoto in that style.

I hate those guys 

[Slide Panda]

The bad (still  ) is I'm a tad crossed up...but not terribly.

harder to tell from the photo angle, but your head looks to the inside

While I'm busy trying to get a knee down I usually get passed on the outside by a marshall  riding a SuperMoto in that style.

I can say without lying that I passed an 1198 (couple times), mid 2000s R1 and a few other bikes pumping out way more than my whopping 56 hp. I'd have probably been able to lap that R1 if passing in the turns was allowed (B sessions with no passing in turns). R1 guy would park it in any turn, the course has lots of turns then blast off. I may have made a chicane 'a straight' to pass him... I don't think I touched the dirt 

Dunno if I'll get folks on the outside with that bike ever. But on the brakes, cutting bumpers, or possibly on the inside (we'll see about that  )

[thought]

Great thread!

Now... I have request from you guys... rate my form?  And please excuse the ghetto way I took these pics... i wanted them to have an idea of my form but didnt think they looked good enough for me to buy for the desktop... though I'm still thinking about buying one of the first two

This is from my 2nd trackday ever at the DESMO trackday we recently had at NJMP and I'm on my SFS.


photo 4 by thought_8, on Flickr


photo 5 by thought_8, on Flickr


photo 42 by thought_8, on Flickr

From what I can see:

The good:
-Off the center line of my bike
-Looking through the turn
-On my toes on the pegs so I'm not going to scrape a boot before anything else

The bad:
-Need to get lower on the bars... or is this about the normal posture you get when riding with bars vs clip ons?

And here is a pic of what I'd think is pretty solid form... sadly from the girl in front of me not me. haha


photo 22 by thought_8, on Flickr

So my question is... I know I can get better but is this normal for a non clip on set up?  I know I'm supposed to lay my arm across the tank but I cant really see how I can do that without getting sbk ergos.

[stopintime]

^^ on a SF you already have enough weight on the front, so I don't think you need to get lower.
Whether moving/hanging your lower body inside is required.... maybe not yet. Inside shoulder and head could point further to the exit (if you need to move around at all)

[thought]

^^ on a SF you already have enough weight on the front, so I don't think you need to get lower.
Whether moving/hanging your lower body inside is required.... maybe not yet. Inside shoulder and head could point further to the exit (if you need to move around at all)

Not sure what you mean here... are you saying that I should be hanging off more or not be hanging off at all?  I've already gotten my knees down, should I be pushing to be off the bike further?

And my issue is that I have a hard time looking/turning my body further than that when that upright... I'm wondering if that having bars vs clip ons and the posture changes entailed would change that issue by getting my body lower so I can pivot it easier.  As in, is this just an issue I'm going to have while riding a bike with bars vs clip ons.

Offhand, this is turn 7 at NJMP Thunderbolt:



and here is actually 8 min of that session. The gopro battery died halfway through right when I was about to make it through all the traffic :\  I was in group 2 (no inside passing, outside passing allowed), and DTC was on 4 so it's flaring quite a bit... didnt want drop it any further till I had more track time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtyQGYpAiu0&feature=relmfu

[stopintime]

Thought: I'm saying that on a SF the weight bias is already forward to a degree where leaning forward might bring too much weight on the front. If that is the case - clip ons will not make any sense (other than perhaps offering a "better" wrist angle). Another point is that clip ons are difficult to fit on a SF, aren't they?

Hanging off, bringing the knee down, seems to be a holy goal for a majority of riders - many of which are not even going fast enough to need any weight redistribution. I'm not saying this to you in particular - it's just a general observation. Hanging off can be difficult to do without upsetting the bike and it often disturbs riders so they can't enter and exit turns smoothly in high speeds.

If for nothing other than an alternative exercise, I suggest moving your upper body only - leading with your exit-focused eyes - leading shoulder low.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.

[JoeP]

Yes, great thread! I'm learning a lot by reading through all the responses. Here's me from a recent cornering clinic:



My inside foot position doesn't seem right and I should be looking through the turn more. Chin up a little more. And I should fix my clutch lever. See anything else?

[stopintime]

Looking through the corner depends on the corner and where in it you are, so maybe...

BTW: what is that ~box directly under your hand/brake lever?


Else... from my view it looks nice - using your upper body to lead and point

[JoeP]

BTW: what is that ~box directly under your hand/brake lever?

Looks like a box in the pic, but it's an air scoop.

[Triple J]

Thought: I'm saying that on a SF the weight bias is already forward to a degree where leaning forward might bring too much weight on the front. If that is the case - clip ons will not make any sense (other than perhaps offering a "better" wrist angle).  

Not true. Streetfighters are too light in the front end to make great track bikes...this coming from a Ducati rep. who has raced, and has one as a trackbike (used to be a streetbike until he crashed it at the track). Front end wash-outs are common. Anything to get weight on the front of them is good.

Thought: Yes, you should work on getting lower like you were thinking. Bars do make it a bit tougher though.

[Slide Panda]

My inside foot position doesn't seem right and I should be looking through the turn more. Chin up a little more. And I should fix my clutch lever. See anything else?

Looks like the foot could be back a couple inches - ball of the foot on the peg point. Looks like you've got the instep on it.

Looking through the corner depends on the corner and where in it you are, so maybe...

Yeah hard to tell without a bit more sense of the curve and where you are in it. Could be looking right at the exit for all we know 

[stopintime]

Not true. Streetfighters are too light in the front end to make great track bikes...

Well, the weight bias IS more forward than older Monsters and SBKs (rider/seat position).
I'm not saying they are great track bikes, but that would have to be because of something else like suspension, geometry, ergonomics, bars.... I don't know.

[Triple J]

Well, the weight bias IS more forward than older Monsters and SBKs (rider/seat position).
I'm not saying they are great track bikes, but that would have to be because of something else like suspension, geometry, ergonomics, bars.... I don't know.

They're raked out compared to a SBK, so they need even more weight on the front to make them stick.