brake upgrade -- ABS on an M900?

[showerfan]

now that i see my back brake is completely shot, and as i prepare to put new forks on my front end, i have started contemplating brake upgrades. i'd like the ultimate in stopping power, since i often go too fast, out of control

but how far can i go with brake upgrades? what is the ultimate you can do to an old m900? i already have twin front discs. do wavy rotors make things better? can i upgrade my master cylinder? is it possible to add aftermarket ABS?

by the way, i have to give a shout-out and thanks to everyone on this board. i am learning this stuff as i go along. last march i had never even held a wrench in my hand, now i have put on cycle cat clip-ons, installed a new clutch pack/plate/cover, did my own tail chop, installed new rearsets, etc. etc. -- all with the help of this board and home depot.

[zooom]

1st...what is your budget?

[elgallo73]

You may very well be in luck...  I believe that this MAY be possible if you were to acquire an M4 ABS unit from a recent Monster.  I'm not going to do all the work for you, but the M4 ABS unit on the newer Monsters acts as a "standalone unit" and thus is not tied to the ECU or cluster via the CANBUS Ducati employs.

You would need to wire a perch switch with indicator to enable/disable the ABS, route the front wheel speed sensor to the ABS unit as well with the output going to your speedo.

That would pretty much do it.  The hardest part would likely be locating a place to install the ABS unit, which is not too big...  What you need to do is CAREFULLY study the wiring diagram for a recent ABS equipped Monster and your own bike.  You will likely need to construct a new wiring harness as well, which is not as difficult as one might think.

You can PM me if you want more help, I've done a great deal of legwork with understanding ABS as employed on the current Monsters so I could be of some help...

The greatest issue, in my opinion, would be how much your Monster deviates from the current models in terms of wheel size and other parameters.  You are not lost here, either, Bosch supplies the software necessary to tune their ABS units FREE OF CHARGE!  Now if only Ducati would publish the specs for their CANBUS implementation or AT THE VERY LEAST, ADHERE TO SOME STANDARD!!!!

[koko64]

Very interesting. 

[stopintime]

...........The hardest part would likely be locating a place to install the ABS unit, which is not too big... 

Under the tank, after removing the air box?

[thought]

Isnt ABS more than just a ecu you can attach?  I'm pretty sure it needs some kind of connection to the hydraulic lines...  I could be wrong though.

What zoom asked is prob the most important question, but for me... if ABS were really that big of a deal then I would just go and buy a newer monster with it already there.

But in terms of normal brake upgrades, upgrading your calipers will increase stopping power, upgrading the master to a radial master will decrease lever effort and increase feel.  Wave rotors are touted to increase stopping power/increase cooling, but I dont think anyone has ever said they've noticed that huge of a diff... but almost all aftermarket rotors are waves now so why not try them out.

Check out gotham cycles to see what kind of used parts you can pick up that will fit the new forks you're putting on your monster.

[elgallo73]

I assumed custom brake lines would be a given.  That is the easy part, I could convert a 1921 Model A Duesenberg to ABS if it were just a matter of hydraulic lines.  Many current vehicles have the electrical portion of an ABS system on a bus.  This bus is referred to as a CANBUS, of which Ducati and BMW are two motorcycle manufacturers that I know who use this setup.

If the ABS system were on the CANBUS, it would likely be unusable unless some workaround were considered for a bike which does not employ this arrangement.

I don't see why an older Ducati motorcycle could not be equipped with an M4 or similar ABS system.  The real issue being the parameters stored in the controller, which are likely tailored for the bike it was installed on.

This being stated, "thought" gives the best solution, being the purchase of a newer motorcycle which is equipped with ABS.

I've been riding off and on for 26 years and was not quite sure how ABS on a motorcycle would really work.  I'm a true believer now...  ABS has saved my behind NO LESS than 3 times in the past 14 months following a 15 year absence "out of the seat".  One of the "near misses" would have been serious...

[showerfan]

hey guys, thanks for all the info! elgallo -- you are incredibly clued in , plus 73 is my favorite year! great vintage.

i will look around for an m4 just to see the prices, but chances are i'll upgrade with traditional brakes... seems less complicated and i'm already dealing with the complication of a GSXR fork swap (still need to decide about making spacers for my wheel or just sourcing a gsxr wheel and rotors... probably will do the latter).

as far as a brakes-upgrade budget, i hadn't really thought of one, but i guess i want to keep it under a grand if possible. that seems to be a limit my stomach could handle. anything higher would make me

[Slide Panda]

I have a feeling that adding ABS would cost more than that... just a feeling though.

Referring to your original post. Folks have run ABS and non ABS monsters head to head in braking. In the dry, and on a straight the non ABS bike will stop shorter than the ABS model under threshold braking. Granted, this is using the brakes to the limit of traction and weight transfer of the bike for a skilled rider. The normal human test candidates generally saw shorter distances with the ABS as they felt more comfortable grabbing a fist full of lever. So... non abs will stop shorter if you're able to use it.

As far as non abs upgrades. You could swap to a radial master. Plenty of the newers Mosnters or super bikes would be via donors if you're looking to buy used, or even new.

There's a number of caliper options as well. If you've got the 65mm mounts the 4 piston 4 pad calipers from the 749/999 will bolt on. New lines would be needed as the ports are on the side, not the top. Even if you have the 40mm mounts, there are adaptors out there.

You could swap to iron rotors vs stainless.

And there's all flavor of pads as well.

It's not too hard to put together a brake set that will toss you over the bars if you want to.

[elgallo73]

i'm already dealing with the complication of a GSXR fork swap

Showerfan, please DOCUMENT THIS if you complete it, I've been considering this mod for some time.  I'm going to veer a bit off topic here, but FYI, the GSXR swap is often considered using forks from a 2005-2006 GSXR 750.  While doing some research for this, I found that later models would work fine but would require a shim for the location in the lower triple.  Easily fabbed or purchased online.  The later years are 50/53 in the triples.

From my seat in the bleachers, the GSXR swap is SUPERIOR to the SBK conversion in that it retains stock ride geometry (I am not a big fan of clip-ons)...

[showerfan]

i will definitely document this -- i've tried to document all of my mods and share what i learn along the way

i am actually using forks from an 04 GSXR 1000, which a mechanic i know had redone with ohlins R&T cartridges and whatnot (i don't know enough about suspension yet) and only rode for about 500 miles -- this sounds like a good swap to me from what i've read on these boards. here is an AWESOME thread about a similar swap, though onto an s2r -- i am hoping all the measurements are the same for my 1999 m900, which is possibly silly of me but... i'll find out: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=958.0

p.s. i just installed cycle cat clip-ons and i LOVE them but YMMV