M900 mystery problem.

[DesmoTillDeath]

As many of you know I crashed my 2001 m900 into my car in june. I've since put $2000 back into it and drove it back from NY to CA.

Now that I'm back I am noticing some problems that I began to notice on the trip.

Starts fine, warms up, but doesn't idle well. When it gets up to operational temp it idles worse. The tach needle flutters over the 1000 marker and dips to below 500 for a second and then comes back up. It also has a tendency to cut out and stop running completely when waiting at intersections. Its becoming more and more noticeable.

Power loss is another thing i notice. Doesn't quite have the go go go that it did 6 months ago. I can feel more vibration and hear more engine noise. There is a noise when I accelerate going highway speeds that sounds like a baseball card in the spokes of a bicycle but much faster.

Then today I tried twisting the cold start lever a little bit when i was waiting at a stop light just to keep the idle steady/higher so it wouldn't quit. Worked ok.

I also found the exhaust to be hotter. The frame tubes by the header for the vertical cylinder was almost too hot to touch after a 5 minute ride on the highway.






So yesterday I had it up on the lift and checked the valve clearance and belt tension. Here's what I got;

Horizontal cylinder:

inlet:
open - .003"
close - .002"

exhaust:
open - .0025"
close - .0065"

Vertical cylinder:

inlet:
open - .002"
close - .002"

exhaust:
open - .004"
close - .005"




If my calculations are correct from the specs in the haynes service manual then all of them are still within spec.
The belts were very slightly loose.


The engine ran later in the day after the crash and then a few weeks later I ran it again and it seemed to run fine. Then I drove it all the way across the country without much trouble. But then again I was carrying gear and wearing ear plugs the entire time.

I thought it might be the TPS or something to do with the fuel delivery system. I put a new (used) tank on and swapped in my old pump and hoses. I did however put a new fuel filter and a piece of longer submersible fuel line to reach the delivering pipe. (my original tank was the larger capacity tank that didnt have the fuel pump clamp up by the filler hole.)

Please help.
Thanks

[ducpainter]

I'm not sure whose specs you're using

I use...

Intakes  .004 Exhausts .005

Closers should be <.001 or as close to .000 without binding as possible.

That said all this might have nothing to do with your issue.

When was the last time you synched the TB's?

[DesmoTillDeath]

The specs I used were from the Haynes manual. But they give the clearances in mm and I currently have a standard set of feeler gauges so I converted the units and went from there.

If I compare the current clearances with your recommendation then it makes sense that the exhaust is hot because I am up to .006" loose. But my opener clearances are all tighter than what your'e specifying. Is that as much of an issue? Besides slightly increasing the amount of fuel entering the cylinder each intake stroke.

The throttle bodies have not been touched since I bought the bike in January of this year (~10,000 miles ago).
What is required to synched the TB's?
Special tools?
Computer/dealer?

[ducpainter]

Ducs run much smoother with closers close to 0.

Tight openers  can cause issues in the very long term, but not until they get closer to 0. At zero they don't seat, will burn out, and can cause the seats to burn.

Also the valves don't cool as well because they don't transfer as much heat to the head because they're open longer.

If you do your own adjustments you will notice the difference with the clearances set at optimum as opposed to 'just within tolerance'.

I've used this tool in the old mercury version  http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0411/   It comes with the necessary fittings.

There are others out there. With labor rates being what they are it will pay for itself in short order.

[Speeddog]

They don't run as well with the clearances like you've got.
It may well be 'within spec' according to Haynes, but that will put you behind the 8-ball as far as solving the problem.

Set the valve clearances to the values that ducpainter suggested.
See if that helps, I strongly suspect it'll cure or vastly improve the idle.

Then sync the throttle bodies and set the idle speed.
Here's some info on how, there's a bit more than you need, but there it is:
http://bikeboy.org/ducati2vthrottleb.html

[DesmoTillDeath]

This up-coming weekend I will put her under the wrench again and tighten up those valves. After which I will test ride to see if the problems disappear.

Good point on the burnt valve possibility. Since I'm altering the closer shim, I'll fix the openers too.

I haven't looked at the links yet but I'm glad you gave them too me because I can't seem to find the procedure in the Haynes.

I emailed Southern California Motorcycles in Brea for a quote for TB syncing. This is mainly to motivate me to do it myself and to make me feel better about buying more tools (love buying tools, hate not being able to afford it) 

I'll check back with the results.

[Desmo Demon]

Intakes  .004 Exhausts .005

Closers should be <.001 or as close to .000 without binding as possible.

Pretty similar to what I use. I generally run 0.004"-0.006" (goal is 0.005") for all openers and 0.000"-0.002" (goal is <0.001" when resetting) for all closers. These are some old-school specs that used to float around all the forums, and I've been using since 2000 or so.

If the belts get too loose, my ST2 will start to backfire and pop through the throttle-bodies a bit and the low-end power is a little weaker with throttle response that is not as crisp. Additionally, if the belts get loose enough, the back of the belts can slap the inside of the belt covers and put a little groove on the belts.

[Dirty Duc]

Additionally, if the belts get loose enough, the back of the belts can slap the inside of the belt covers and put a little groove on the belts.

And make a relatively disturbing noise that sounds like you need a new engine.

[DesmoTillDeath]

Finished. Took about the whole weekend. Probably could have done it in one day but I took breaks and slept 11 hours last night etc..

The difference is night and day!!!!!!!!!!     

Starts faster, idles almost without any variation, runs smooth, less engine noise. The power is there but I feel like it could be better. Then again its over 100 degrees out today and the gas in the tank is a week old with potentially month old gas mix in. The next fill up with cooler night time temperatures may bring her back to 100%. A TB sync might be a good idea but for now I will leave it until I get at least a few more weeks of driving out of it.

Thank you for all the input.
Openers were as close to .005 as I could get and definitely within the .004-.006 range.
Closers were all on or under .0015.
Had to sand down an opener slim because the next one was too loose. I dont think this will cause a problem. I only took off maybe 0.1mm.

[Speeddog]

Turns out the old farts know  thing or two.