New to Forum, Valve clearances way out of spec

[Shatrat]

I've got a new-to-me 2004 620ie with a questionable service history.
I got it a couple of weeks ago and based on the external components of the bike like the sprockets and tire pressure, the previous owner wasn't a stickler for maintenance.

So, based on that I believe there's a chance that the valves have never been inspected.
The bike does run, although it doesn't idle well but that could be TB setup.

When I took off the valve covers last night I couldn't even fit the .0015" feeler in between the opener rocker arm and the shim without it binding.
This is on all four valves by the way.  Out of all of them, only the horizontal intake shim stack spins freely without resistance.

On the horizontal intake I can get the .002" feeler in the opener gap if I push down on the closer arm.  On the other three I didn't notice a difference, but I didn't try very hard to measure the closer gap because I'm pretty alarmed by the opener gap.

I know I was at TDC and I did it multiple times on each cylinder so I hope at least once I was at TDC on the compression stroke.
I'll try it again tonight with a helper to make sure I'm on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke.

If I am measuring correctly and there is no unloaded gap between the opener and the shim, where do I start in order to correct that?
Do I order shims that are .004" smaller than the existing shims and then just sand until I get to the gap I need?
I've got a micrometer so I can measure the shims as well as look at their factory markings.

Can I even attempt to get the correct closer shims before I have a measurable opener gap?

I think this valve adjustment may end up being a 2 stage process at best.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.

[He Man]

Welcome aboard. check some valve adjustment tutorials. that is where you should start with knowledge and it should answer many of your questions.

if ur openers are tight, ur closers are loose so everything needs to be checked and swapped accordingly.

[motoxmann]

unfortunately it sounds like this will end up being a 2-stage process.

personally what I would do is just start sanding down the currently installed opener shims until you can perfectly get a 0.002" feeler in there for 0.002" opener clearance. then measure the shim thickness with a micrometer and order new shims of proper size according to: current shim thickness -(minus) additional clearance needed to bring it to spec. and when you order these opener shims, also order a closer shim measuring tool, because you WILL need that tool to properly measure closer shim size in order to know what closer shims to buy during the second stage of measurements (after installing the new opener shims)

*if any of the shims currently installed have any type of size markings on them; IGNORE these markings. shims often wear, sometimes more sometimes less, and will make the shim no longer have a thickness matching its markings. shims need to actually be measured with a micrometer, and a closer shim tool for the closer shims

[Slide Panda]

Are you measuring with the timing belts on or off?

They need to be off for accurate measurements.

[Speeddog]

How many miles on the bike?

Here's a valve adjust video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIj3nSJGPZw

[Shatrat]

16,000 miles.

I've got the Desmotimes book and have also read and viewed all the frequently linked tutorials online.
None of them say what to do if you have no clearance at all, which is why I'm freaking out.

I've checked both with the belts on and off, no noticeable change, still tight as a drum.
I changed the belts for the Exactfit ones last night and I said some pretty hurtful things to the Monster while trying to get the vertical one on right. 
I don't think either one of us is ready for me to take those belts off again.

I believe I'm going to follow Motoxman's recommendation and start sanding the opener shims till I have something resembling clearance, and then proceed normally from there.

Thanks y'all.

[Slide Panda]

I changed the belts for the Exactfit ones last night and I said some pretty hurtful things to the Monster while trying to get the vertical one on right. 

Anyone who's done their own belts has been there - you're in good company.

When you get to it, you will need to have them off to get accurate numbers.

[brad black]

slide the opening rockers out of the way and do the closers.  then do the openers.  you can feel the clearance in the closers.

[Shatrat]

I've sanded all the openers to right on the .004" nose, except for one that I slightly oversanded to .006" gap.
Unfortunately it's the shortest one so I can't do any juggling to fix it, gonna have to buy a new one.
I sanded in two stages and I didn't anticipate how quickly the finer 1000 grit was going to remove material.

Now that I've got them all with measurable clearances I'm going to start from scratch and proceed normally by measuring unloaded and loaded gaps.

Thanks for your help guys, I think everything's gonna be alright.

[Slide Panda]

It'll be, and it seems like you're doing it right so far and taking the time and attention needed

[motoxmann]

It'll be, and it seems like you're doing it right so far and taking the time and attention needed

x2

I would go ahead and immediately buy the closer shim tool from http://www.emsduc.com/products.html
you will definitely need it to measure your old shims so you know what size new shims to order. I also strongly suggest buying the shims from the same place, as they are less expensive AND stronger AND always dead on proper size (ducati shims are sometimes off a little). also know that shims from EMSduc are much stronger metal and sand down much much slower

[He Man]

the openers get tight because the closers get loose. when you spec the closers, wont the openers be way to loose now?

[ducpainter]

slide the opening rockers out of the way and do the closers.  then do the openers.  you can feel the clearance in the closers.

+1

Your openers will likely change when you do the closers.

[brad black]

the valves should be held in position against the seats by the closing springs, so clearance at the closers isnt really an issue for the openers.  and, if they do move, it will just pull the valves further up thereby reducing the opening clearance.

but i always do do the closers first.  and i don't measure the "loaded" gap, i just feel the clearance and start swapping shims.  i have a shit load on hand.

[Raux]

I think I would've replaced the valve retainer collets first before any sanding, etc. they are probably toast.