looking through turns

[1.21GW]

Since the MSF course through Parks' TOTAL CONTROL through posts on this forum, the 'look through the turn' mantra has been drilled into me.  However...I was out last week on local twisties and though I managed to avoid getting distracted by the fall colors and stay focused on the turn, I realized that when I'm looking through a turn I'm not able to identify road hazards that could be dangerous in said turn, e.g. wet leaves, patch of gravel, etc.  These things aren't obvious or even visible from 40 yds or however forward I'm looking in the turn.

How do y'all manage looking through the turn while also being aware of issues with the road surface?

[Slide Panda]

 So the first thing to keep in mind is your pace. Less speed = more time which helps a lot.

Another item to consider is line selection. An early turn in tight line offers little to no glimpse of what's down the road past the apex. Conversely a wide, late entry late apex line allows a much better look down the road.

A more difficult to describe and work skill is your vision. I can diagram various lines in a turn and clearly display the impact on sight lines. But talking about how one sees is a little more difficult.

Something I use from my martial arts days is a diffused gaze. Basically working to fan out my vision so I can pick up many items in low detail vs locking on to one item in detail. If there's something  I need to avoid the detail of it, sand vs puddle or stick vs 2x4, isn't as important as identifying it as something to avoid. Skipping some of the detail speeds our ability to process. And hopefully avoiding that lock on behavior will lessen the chance of problematic target fixation

The MA root of it is being able to see all the limbs/weapons of an attacker and any motion of them. I need to see that kick starting but don't need to ID the brand of shoe on the foot

[stopintime]

When I started picking up pace I struggled with the same thing.
The obvious solution is to slow down enough to be able to identify everything and look through the turn - switching between the two every other half second. It can be done, but it's not a good way to ride. At all.

After a while I decided to do what Slide describes - a quick overview to see if anything needs a closer look - then commit to the line and stay somewhat focused on the exit - half focused, not staring. This approach requires me to trust the bike and my skills. It took me some time and thousands of miles to rely on this as a safe way of riding, but since then (~40,000 miles) I can't remember being surprised by anything on the roads.

When I'm in the zone and it feels safe, both on the road and track, I can't describe anything - nothing comes to mind - it's almost like a blur.

[1.21GW]

Good stuff, guys.   I guess you agree on the survey-without-focusing-on-any-specific-thing technique.  I'll give this a try next time I'm out, though I imagine it's unnatural and will take some retraining.  I have a hard enough time not staring at the landscape, other bikes (especially ducs), etc. that are like sirens drawing me to my doom.

[El-Twin]

like sirens drawing me to my doom.

Don't say doom. Lets keep the vibe light.

I agree that this is a problem. I like to think that by scanning ahead through the corner to the exit, the eye will pick up objects and hazards in the periphery. But I can't say that I'm personally comfortable with this belief. I find myself, while I'm thinking "Look through to the exit," I can't shake the concern about what's in the road right in front of me.

I can't offer a solution, but I share the concern.

[Slide Panda]

Good stuff, guys.   I guess you agree on the survey-without-focusing-on-any-specific-thing technique.  I'll give this a try next time I'm out, though I imagine it's unnatural and will take some retraining.  I have a hard enough time not staring at the landscape, other bikes (especially ducs), etc. that are like sirens drawing me to my doom.

It does take some work. We are predators, with front faced binocular vision. It's normal for us to focus and lock on to something, so pulling back and taking a 'wide' view is a learned skill. And I won't claim that I'm doing that 100% of the time, I switch between looking down the road for details and the scanning wide view. I don't count on one or the other but try to use some of both to get me the most complete total picture, even if it's lacking some unnecessary details.

And yeah like stopintime says, especially at the track, I won't be able to give more than a vague description of a lot of the traffic on a day where I'm beating up on folks. If I'm in behind someone who's next on the passin' list I'm monitoring them for line change etc, but looking down the track to where I'm going to be so they are just something in my periphery

[somegirl]

Good stuff, guys.   I guess you agree on the survey-without-focusing-on-any-specific-thing technique.  I'll give this a try next time I'm out, though I imagine it's unnatural and will take some retraining.  I have a hard enough time not staring at the landscape, other bikes (especially ducs), etc. that are like sirens drawing me to my doom.

Practice it all the time, not just when on the bike.  Practice in the car, when walking around, etc.  It takes time but will start to come more naturally.

[Slide Panda]

Very good point. Don't have to be on a moto to do it

[Duc796canada]

As has been said, yes do it even in your cage!! Also, slow down as has been until your brain can process all the information, that is where the term riding over your head comes in....when you get caught out!! The "things" in your path should have been seen and already identified, if you were looking far enough ahead.

[Mundman]

Know your road! Take a slower pace the 1st time and then when you do the run for real, you'll trust your periphery vision.