Fork spring upgrade help

[memper]

I have pogo stick non adjustables on my '99 750. No money for better forks so I figured I'd redo the springs. I have read that folks have used Racetech springs to good success. Any other manufacturers to suggest?

[stopintime]

Since rebound damping is the weakest link, stiffer springs won't help with the pogo'ing.
Heavier oil can improve the damping a little....

[Howie]

Are your forks Showa or Marzocchi?  Showas can be revalved.

[memper]

The dark models got crap components so prolly marzocchi. I read on the "other" monster forum when googling that someone put race tech springs in and the ride was like "night and day".
How much more oil should I put in for the rebound?

[stopintime]

I believe they are Marzocchi, but if you want to make sure - Showas are marked as such on the inside of the fork bottoms ( someone on here said so  )

Springs for your weight and riding style can make performance better, but the poor damping is the real issue here.

Some people report better damping with a heavier grade oil - if it's been a long time since last, even just fresh oil might give a 'night and day' experience.

[Howie]

I believe they are Marzocchi, but if you want to make sure - Showas are marked as such on the inside of the fork bottoms ( someone on here said so  )

Springs for your weight and riding style can make performance better, but the poor damping is the real issue here.

Some people report better damping with a heavier grade oil - if it's been a long time since last, even just fresh oil might give a 'night and day' experience.

Yes, the Showas are marked on the inside of the forks.  On the older Monsters the caps also have 17mm. hexes, the Marzocchis, don't remember the size, but bigger.  My '01 came with Showas, they work well with proper springs and valving.

[Slide Panda]

Some people report better damping with a heavier grade oil - if it's been a long time since last, even just fresh oil might give a 'night and day' experience.

How long's it been since the forks have gotten new oil?

Don't confuse better and more. Heavier weight oil will give more damping - both compression and rebound. So heavier oil *could* translate to a harsh feeling ride if the net is too much compression damping.

Regardless of the oil situation, you should get the proper springs. Too soft a spring will result in a squishy front end and a low more chassis movement than ideal.

Another factor to ponder is oil height. Yep, the oil level plays a role too. The compressible air in the fork acts as a secondary spring (sorta) and can be adjusted resulting in a real feel change.

Started talking about in a bit more detail here
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60985.0

[memper]

1.How long's it been since the forks have gotten new oil?

2.Don't confuse better and more. Heavier weight oil will give more damping - both compression and rebound. So heavier oil *could* translate to a harsh feeling ride if the net is too much compression damping.

3.Regardless of the oil situation, you should get the proper springs. Too soft a spring will result in a squishy front end and a low more chassis movement than ideal.

4.Another factor to ponder is oil height. Yep, the oil level plays a role too. The compressible air in the fork acts as a secondary spring (sorta) and can be adjusted resulting in a real feel change.

Started talking about in a bit more detail here
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60985.0

1.No idea about when the oil was changed last.
2.Ok
3.Springs, yes thats what I was inquiring about on the first post. Any recommendations other than Racetech?
4.Oil height, thats what I meant when I asked about how much more to put in.
I will read that link when I get a chance. Thanks Panda.

[Slide Panda]

1. Oh dear - my first suggestion would be to just replace the oil with the original weight and see how things feel. Fork oil is something that should be replaced regularly. Recommendations vary a bit, but 1-2 years for a street bike seems to be the norm. So your oil is probably in an awful state. In my pretty limited taking apart of forks and helping out at a buddies shop I've seen some NASTY stuff with over tired fork oil. One that all I can say was rancid... or would be if it was food oil. Another that was opaque sludge, not transparent/translucent fluid.

So you need to replace the fork oil and have a good look. If there seems to be goop or sludge you might need to have them apart more an see about a more thorough cleaning as passages might be blocked.

3. There's several reputable manufacturers - just be sure to get the right spring rate. Don't trust the RaceTech online calculator, it never seems to remember the correct info

4. The factory manual will tell you the factory oil height. I don't know what it is for your bike as it varies.

[ducpainter]

The Race-Tech calculator is better for the front than the rear.

[Jarvicious]

I went with Traxxion Dynamics and was very pleased.  I try and use my local shops whenever possible, but the price they gave me combined with the fact that I knew the job was done by a no nonsense suspension shop was worth it to me.  I have the non adjustable, non re-valvable marzocchis, and short of buying a used set of adjustable Showas (~$300+) and having them resprung with new seals (~$300) it seemed like a good way to go.

I just told them what kind of riding I do, how much I weigh, etc and they did all the work (including all new bushings and inner and outer seals AND SPRINGS) for $350.  Including labor.  My local shop gave me a $90 per fork leg estimate and that's just labor with no parts.  Traxxion also has a machine that can emulate rider weight and riding style (track, commute, touring, etc) and runs it through the ringer after the rebuild to make sure everything is in order.  I haven't really ridden them hard yet, but so far it's been well worth the money. 

[brad black]

the 40mm marzocchi are the crap ones.  the later 43mm are better i believe, and possibly even revalvable.  I read something rick at cogent dynamics said about them being quite good as is and better when sprung right and reoiled than the non adj showa of the time.  maybe ask him.  http://www.motocd.com/cd/

springs: racetech, ohlins, eibach, hyperpro, teknic, lots of people make them.  find a good local shop if possible and work with them is always my advice.

generally showa have a 17mm hex on the cap, marzocchi 30mm.

[stopintime]

the 40mm marzocchi are the crap ones.  the later 43mm are better i believe, and possibly even revalvable...
...........

generally showa have a 17mm hex on the cap, marzocchi 30mm.

My '07 S2R 800 has 17mm hex caps (or close. Not 30 for sure!) on it's 43 Marzocchis.

It was no big issue to have mine revalved/shimmed/whatever, but my suspension guy won't say how - it isn't straight forward is all he said. They are good enough to make the Öhlins suspension pros at Misano WDW insist they would have to be their cartridges.

Brad, you're probably right then about the 43 mm being better - or at least have some hope (because they are NOT good from factory)

[Jarvicious]

(because they are NOT good from factory)

True that.  You're 6-foot-something like me, aren't you?  Even if you're marginally lighter than I am, they are waaaaaaay squishy.  Either way, the springs and oil help.  I was pretty quick once I learned how the stockers performed so I can only imagine this as an upgrade.

[memper]

Thank you all for the info