What did I F*&$ Up Now? (02 S4 Starting Issues)

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Listen to howie.

I need to stop reading at 5:30 am.

Your advice is always welcome.

Not good.  Charging should be steady at speed.  First, make sure your volt meter connections are good.  You may be getting erroneous readings.  Then go to the Electrex trouble shooting link I posted.  Check voltage from the stator windings.  Within range and steady?  Stator is good.  Regulator (or more likely) loose connection.  Do look for signs of excessive heat where the stator connects to the alternator.  To eliminate the battery variable substitute a known good battery, preferably lead acid.

So double checked voltage again and then took her outside to confirm earlier email.  Inside, voltage reading as 13.4v, then took her outside and cranked her over.  First crank didn't start.  Second crank fired up and kept a steady rev at 2,500RPM, volt reading increased to 14.7.  Volt reading didn't consistently hold at 14.7, every now and then like this morning it fluxed between 10-13v's before going back to 14.  Even in the 14v range it would go from 14.7 to 14.3 or 14.5 before going back to the 14.7/14.8 range.  It slowly increased but you volt reading would drop every now and then before going up.   

Based on Electrosport, revved bike to 5K RMP, and it jumped all over the place above and below 14.8v.  So it seems the charging system is ok.  But this is all relative to an acid-lead battery and not a Shorai. 

Howie- still gonna check reading at strator tonight when back from office to see what the reading tells me. 

[TitanMonsterS4R]

How should I go about checking the headlight ground?

[ducpainter]

Your advice is always welcome.

So double checked voltage again and then took her outside to confirm earlier email.  Inside, voltage reading as 13.4v, then took her outside and cranked her over.  First crank didn't start.  Second crank fired up and kept a steady rev at 2,500RPM, volt reading increased to 14.7.  Volt reading didn't consistently hold at 14.7, every now and then like this morning it fluxed between 10-13v's before going back to 14.  Even in the 14v range it would go from 14.7 to 14.3 or 14.5 before going back to the 14.7/14.8 range.  It slowly increased but you volt reading would drop every now and then before going up.    

Based on Electrosport, revved bike to 5K RMP, and it jumped all over the place above and below 14.8v.  So it seems the charging system is ok.  But this is all relative to an acid-lead battery and not a Shorai.  

Howie- still gonna check reading at strator tonight when back from office to see what the reading tells me.  

I think howie is suggesting that the voltage readings should not jump around, but should remain constant at ~14.5. You might have a bad connection or a connection/wire that is getting ready to fail. I'd check the connector at the regulator and the one coming from the stator...yellow wires.

This assuming you have solid meter connections.

How should I go about checking the headlight ground?

Remove the sealed beam and check continuity from the ground wire inside to the bike side of the H?L connector. Not sure what color it is...black or brown...maybe.

The ohm meter should read 0 resistance.

[Howie]

A little fluctuation is OK, particularly with temperature change is OK, going down to battery, or notably below 13.5 is not. Over 15 volts can damage the Shorai battery, as will letting it sit at less than 12.866V according to Shorai.  Over 15 volts can also damage other components.  Over 15 also can be an early waning of regulator melt down.

The ground wire for your headlight is black.  Yellow/black should be high beam.   Also run the ohmmeter between the high beam wire and the ground wire.  If there is any reading other than infinity there is a short in the harness.  I suspect you will probably find the socket itself is not in good shape.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

A little fluctuation is OK, particularly with temperature change is OK, going down to battery, or notably below 13.5 is not. Over 15 volts can damage the Shorai battery, as will letting it sit at less than 12.866V according to Shorai.  Over 15 volts can also damage other components. 

Thanks Howie. 

[TitanMonsterS4R]

The ground wire for your headlight is black.  Yellow/black should be high beam.   Also run the ohmmeter between the high beam wire and the ground wire.  If there is any reading other than infinity there is a short in the harness.  I suspect you will probably find the socket itself is not in good shape.

If there's a short in the harness, what's the remedy?  Please don't say a new wiring harness 

[Howie]

If there's a short in the harness, what's the remedy?  Please don't say a new wiring harness 

One step at a time.  Let's see what the problem is first.  Harnesses can always be repaired.  The high beam wire overheated and fractured, causing an open.  I cut into the harness and replaced the wire from inside the main harness to the connector for the switch and back to the indicator light.  Not pretty enough for your bike with the great paint and all, but I wanted to be back on the road.  Been fine for around three years now, maybe longer.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

So update:

Fixed HB light and dropped new battery in bike.  Strator good and R/R good.  New issue though is, bike took a few more cranks than should be necessary to start.  Once i finally had her running and turned her off, white smoke was coming from the cans.....Do i need to pull/replace spark plugs??  Not sure why the bike could be so hard to start at this point. 

[ducpainter]

So update:

Fixed HB light and dropped new battery in bike.  Strator good and R/R good.  New issue though is, bike took a few more cranks than should be necessary to start.  Once i finally had her running and turned her off, white smoke was coming from the cans.....Do i need to pull/replace spark plugs??  Not sure why the bike could be so hard to start at this point. 

You need to start riding it in between starts.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

You need to start riding it in between starts.

Polite way of saying it's all in my head at this point and the bike is fine

[ducpainter]

Polite way of saying it's all in my head at this point and the bike is fine

...or not.

Sitting and basically idling is not these bikes forte` is all, and not easy on plugs.

Put some miles on it and decide if you need to look further.

It seems the bike is charging and won't strand you because of a lack of juice.

Take a chance...Columbus did.

[Speeddog]

~~~SNIP~~~

Not sure why the bike could be so hard to start at this point. 

What was the ambient temperature when you were starting it?

You were using the fast idle, yes?

[TitanMonsterS4R]

What was the ambient temperature when you were starting it?

You were using the fast idle, yes?

Started it indoors before moving her outside temp was 55 inside when i turned her on and then mover her outside. Used the fast idle about halfway. 

So with new battery here are symptoms: 
  -  Using fast idle bike takes a bit to start (air tempt 55 degrees)
  -  Rear taillight flickers when bike is cranking to start
  -  Once bike starts, hold a constant charge level and increases when revs > 2,500 RPM
  -  Highbeam indicator now functioning properly

Do I need to run through the electrosport diagnosis again?

[Howie]

If the charging rate is reasonably constant, no.  I would follow Nate's advice, plus, if your pockets are deep enough, maybe new plugs and see what happens first.  Tail light flickering during crank is normal.  And, yep, use the fast idle.

[TitanMonsterS4R]

Thanks for the insights and help sussing out the issue. Guess I need to reset my brain and stop expecting the S4 to start and idle like the S2R.