What did I F*&$ Up Now? (02 S4 Starting Issues)

TitanMonsterS4R · January 29, 2013, 03:46:23 PM

Bike: 2002 S4
Mileage: 13,435
Recent Service: 12K (Everything was changed as the bike had been sitting for a bit)
Resting Location: Stored Inside. Temps not lower than 60 degrees

Background: (Sunday) Changed the tank and did everything right but the gas lines. Crossed the lines so when I tried to start the bike, gauge swept, indicator lights came on and pump primed but the bike failed to start. Tried starting her a couple of times and then apparently killed my Shorai battery. Figured out the issue, fixed the line and then put plugged in the battery tender to give battery some juice. Pulled her off after several hours and she started right up. At this point I didn't put her back on the tender.

(Today) Pulled the bike outside and fired her up. Was about 40 degrees outside. She took a couple of attempts to and had to use the fast idle to get her going. Bike idles at around 1200RMP. Let her get warm and started to work. She died a little more than 15 minutes later but started right back up. However, bike idled low during the entire ride to work (40 minutes). Parked in garage around 50 degrees at 8. Came back at 10 and tried to start her, took a bike and noticed the dim headlight. Even while bike was on, light stayed dim. Came back around 1:00 to test start her, same issue but she started. Left work at 4 and it took a while for bike to get running and idled low. Added bonus to dim light the highbeam indicator was on despite the bike being in low beam. Made it home but had to rev engine every now and then as when at traffic lights she idled around 1K. Can't understand why the highbeam light stayed on the whole ride despite not being in highbeam mode, why the battery didn't charge during my ride and why she feel like she wants to die all the time....

Checked other threads and most had some of the same issues but not the highbeam issue while riding.

So is the battery gone, the starter gone, the R/R gone or something else?

Dont want to throw money at this problem.....

ducpainter · January 29, 2013, 05:09:52 PM

Check battery voltage and voltage while running.

Sounds like it isn't charging.

TitanMonsterS4R · January 29, 2013, 05:15:07 PM

Quote from: ducpainter on January 29, 2013, 05:09:52 PM
Check battery voltage and voltage while running.

Sounds like it isn't charging.

Gotcha.....What should it be reading if correct/not correct and how long should I let the bike run for to determine? If it's not charging what's the fix or are there several options?

Also hooked bike up to tender. Green light on tender. While it's hooked up to the bike turned the ignition switch; gauges sweep, HB indicator still lit and headlight is still dim....

ducpainter · January 29, 2013, 05:19:35 PM

Quote from: MonstaS2R on January 29, 2013, 05:15:07 PM
Gotcha.....What should it be reading if correct/not correct and how long should I let the bike run for to determine? If it's not charging what's the fix or are there several options?

Also hooked bike up to tender. Green light on tender. While it's hooked up to the bike turned the ignition switch; gauges sweep, HB indicator still lit and headlight is still dim....

While running at about 2500 rpm you should see 13.5-14.5 at the battery.

The dim HL makes it seem like a battery issue, but it could also be a ground.

I believe the high beam light is trying to tell us something...not sure what.

Speeddog · January 29, 2013, 08:16:04 PM

At 40 degF, you'll need the fast idle to get it started, for sure.

Idle when fully warmed up, and fast idle lever at full 'off' should be ~1200 RPM.
They *can* idle reliably a bit lower than that, but it's not a good plan.

As DP said, check voltages.

He Man · January 29, 2013, 08:20:23 PM

even if the light is green on the tender, it needs to be on there for more than a 2 days if you actually drained ur batt fully (the amp rating is really low on charge mode and its even lower on trickle/tender mode AFAIK). The amperage drops dramatically on tender mode and the voltage is only slightly higher than the batterys native voltage.

that is unless u have a tender specifically for LiFePo4. then ignore that, im assuming u have the deltran batt tender.

TitanMonsterS4R · January 30, 2013, 01:03:58 AM

Quote from: He Man on January 29, 2013, 08:20:23 PM
even if the light is green on the tender, it needs to be on there for more than a 2 days if you actually drained ur batt fully (the amp rating is really low on charge mode and its even lower on trickle/tender mode AFAIK). The amperage drops dramatically on tender mode and the voltage is only slightly higher than the batterys native voltage.

that is unless u have a tender specifically for LiFePo4. then ignore that, im assuming u have the deltran batt tender.

Don't have a charger specifically for the LiFePo4. Plugged the bike back in for the next day or so to sort through the charging issue will then tackle the HB light issue.

Howie · January 30, 2013, 04:59:26 AM

As others said, your symptoms sound like the charging system is not workingHere is a link to test your charging system. Pay special attention to the connector where the three stator wires (yellow) connect to the regulator.

Engine ground too!

A Battery Tender (Deltran) will not fully charge your Shorai battery. Around 14.3 volts is is fully charged. 13.3 is 90%, 13.1 70% and 12.8 not much more than 20%. Put your voltmeter in series between the charger and your battery. Whatever the voltage is when the green light comes on is as good as it will get.

TitanMonsterS4R · January 30, 2013, 08:19:06 AM

Quote from: howie on January 30, 2013, 04:59:26 AM
As others said, your symptoms sound like the charging system is not workingHere is a link to test your charging system. Pay special attention to the connector where the three stator wires (yellow) connect to the regulator. Engine ground too!

A Battery Tender (Deltran) will not fully charge your Shorai battery. Around 14.3 volts is is fully charged. 13.3 is 90%, 13.1 70% and 12.8 not much more than 20%. Put your voltmeter in series between the charger and your battery. Whatever the voltage is when the green light comes on is as good as it will get.

Thanks Howie. And the charg reading is...........

Howie · January 30, 2013, 10:29:05 AM

Quote from: ducpainter on January 29, 2013, 05:19:35 PM
While running at about 2500 rpm you should see 13.5-14.5 at the battery.

The dim HL makes it seem like a battery issue, but it could also be a ground.

I believe the high beam light is trying to tell us something...not sure what.

Let's see what happens with the charging system first. Then we will worry about the headlight. Hopefully the high beam light problem will go away.

ducpainter · January 30, 2013, 10:31:34 AM

Quote from: howie on January 30, 2013, 10:29:05 AM
Let's see what happens with the charging system first. Then we will worry about the headlight. Hopefully the high beam light problem will go away.

I'm waiting with bated breath...

TitanMonsterS4R · January 31, 2013, 05:02:50 PM

Update:

Checked battery charge, battery is reading 13.34. When I turn the ignition key the bike reads 13.23. Now when I try to start the bike, the voltage drops all the way to between 8-9 volts. Never had to check this before. based on the previous posts the battery can charge. However, should voltage drop to around 8 or 9 when trying to start? if yes, where should I check next?

Kids asleep so I can't start the bike to test idling voltage until the morning.

ducpainter · January 31, 2013, 05:42:28 PM

That is excessive voltage drop I believe.

Check all battery connections including grounds

TitanMonsterS4R · January 31, 2013, 05:48:00 PM

Quote from: ducpainter on January 31, 2013, 05:42:28 PM
That is excessive voltage drop I believe.

Check all battery connections including grounds

Thanks....When I do start her, what would you say is a typical voltage reading when trying to start?

ducpainter · January 31, 2013, 05:58:26 PM

I'm thinking...if my addled brain is working...no less than 10 volts.

howie will be by to straighten me out.

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What did I F*&$ Up Now? (02 S4 Starting Issues)