Compression problems for M696 (2009)

[majello]

Ducatisti,
I've a problem and I'd like your opinion.
I brought my beloved M696 to the service with 27k. I had not a single problem with it
and the bike has been serviced regularly.

The workshop contacts me a few days later saying that a compression checks in both cylinder
showed a pressure of  ~80psi (normally should be around 150-180psi, they say). So there is a leak
of 50%. Apparently this happens at the exhaust valve and the tech thinks it might be the valve guide
which wore...

Are you guys familiar with all this ? Do you have any experience and it's something that M696 have every ~30k ?

Honestly the bike was running perfectly fine before I  brought it there. So that's something I couldn't notice while driving..
cheers
Marco

[Raux]

Common issue with exhaust valve guides if you go stock it may and likely will happen again.
i know a mech that brought it up with hq. they don't care
Mbp or italo teile markt are the only two places I've heard have an alternative guide

[Howie]

You need a second opinion, particularly if you were not having a problem with the bile.  The compression test may have not been done correctly.  Cold engine or not holding the throttle open will result in low readings.  Assuming the compression test was done correctly, the tech should have followed up with a cylinder leakage test which would show where the compression loss is.  "Thinks it might be the valve guides"?  Measure, there are specs.  Actually, just wiggling the valves is good enough.

[Raux]

You need a second opinion, particularly if you were not having a problem with the bile.  The compression test may have not been done correctly.  Cold engine or not holding the throttle open will result in low readings.  Assuming the compression test was done correctly, the tech should have followed up with a cylinder leakage test which would show where the compression loss is.  "Thinks it might be the valve guides"?  Measure, there are specs.  Actually, just wiggling the valves is good enough.

+1

[majello]

Hi all,
thanks for the reply. The tech made a leak test. I'm reporting his words:
"The compression check on the cylinders were 85 psi on the vertical cylinder and 65 psi on the horizontal. typically you would see numbers closer to 150-180 psi.
The next step was to do a leak down test. This test pressurizes the cylinder with air and measures how well the valves and piston rings seal. Optimal leak down is less than 5%. Your leak down was 80% and 85%, with most of the air leaking past the exhaust valves.
At this point our recommendation is to tear down the top end and evaluate where the failure has occurred. The minimum cost you would be looking at is 6 hours (plus parts) to disassemble and diagnose the problem."

Still the bike never showed any problem and I use it every day!
comments/suggestions ?
thanks a lot anyways!
marco

[Raux]

second shop evaluation

[Speeddog]

27k miles?
or kilometers?

Have they checked the valve clearances, especially the closers?

Has the bike been serviced regularly, valve clearances adjusted on schedule?

What were the valve clearances at the last service, and how long ago was that?

[majello]

Hi,
the bike has 27k miles and it has been running smoothly (including starting from cold and 54miles/gallons) every day. Oil change has been done every 5k. While full services (valve checks and adjustments etc) have been done at 6.5k, 17k and now at 27k. In the previous services the valve did not basically need any adjustment. I'm not sure what the valve clearance was at the last service, but I can ask...

I spoke with the tech and I'm going to see the bike. They can see rust around the exhaust valve in the horizontal cylinder...

Marco

[Speeddog]

So, in 27k miles the valve clearances have *never* been adjusted?

[Howie]

Again, second opinion time.  Compression that low should result in hard starting, bad or inability to  idle and poor performance at low RPM.  Apparently they still haven't checked valve adjustment.  If off by much, valves should be adjusted and the test done again.  Rusty exhaust valve???

[majello]

Ok I went to see the bike today. They run the leak down test in front of me for both cylinders.
Basically, with the intake valve closed (manually)  and the exhaust one as well the leak was ~80%.
Most of the air would come out from exhausts (thus from the exhaust valve) but a little would come out from the oil plug (so through the cylinder rings) and through the gas tank. Basically it looked like it was leaking everywhere, but most of it from the exhaust part. The engine was cold when we run the tests.

Again, my bike has had absolutely zero problems in the last 3 years. Not even problem starting cold when I left it in the street for several nights. Forget rough idling or decrease in performances (power, mileage etc). that's not my bike.

The tech said that in the optimum case to rebuild the valve trains, clean etc, I would be spending 2k$....
So, my opinion is not to do it and to  close everything and finish the service (adjusting valves etc) and then hoping that it runs exactly the way I  brought it there. Honestly, now I don't know what to expect..

marco

[Raux]

Take it to another shop
if the did a compression test and the air is coming out the exhaust them the valve isn't closed hence needs adjsuting. not rebuilt



if after the do the valves you have leaks through the head in the valve guode seals then you need top end rebuilt if its excessive
If after the valve adjustment you have still air out the exhaust port then you have a bad valve seat/guide/valve and need head work

basically they should ensure factory specs on valves before diagnosing this

[Raux]

Through the gas tank?
What the hell