forget the Mini/Smart/500...

[zooom]

the next new little thing is coming....

https://www.eliomotors.com/

guess we'll see what pans out with this....

[rule62]

I've got an acquaintance out here in AZ who has a fairly large stake in this company. Lots of hype about mpg and crash test ratings. What most of his "followers" fail to recognize is that this vehicle is a MOTORCYCLE! In our state (as in most) you need a MC endorsement on your license to legally operate one. Also the "anticipated 5-star crash rating" would have to be based on motorcycle crash safety ratings. Not too hard to score well on those when you introduce a cage and airbags.

We still have no idea of who supplies the engines, or any other component for that matter. How will warranties be handled?

It's a niche vehicle. A pre-assembled kit. There's another forum member I know in AZ who built something similar 10 years ago in his garage using a Kawasaki 750cc and his Harbor Freight welder. (and at least that thing was fast!)

What I'd like to see is if an elio can make it up the mountain from Phoenix to Flagstaff with two people in it and the AC pumping on a hot 114 degree Arizona day, without overheating or literally being blown off the road. And that 84 mpg is a joke.


<end rant>

[zooom]

I've got an acquaintance out here in AZ who has a fairly large stake in this company. Lots of hype about mpg and crash test ratings. What most of his "followers" fail to recognize is that this vehicle is a MOTORCYCLE! In our state (as in most) you need a MC endorsement on your license to legally operate one. Also the "anticipated 5-star crash rating" would have to be based on motorcycle crash safety ratings. Not too hard to score well on those when you introduce a cage and airbags.

WELL....my only response is that this will compete directly with Can-Am Spyder sales and will be more accessable at that price point to more people than the Can-Am....think about that for a moment, since the Can-Am is being accepted in many states for being able to get your "M" endorsement

We still have no idea of who supplies the engines, or any other component for that matter. How will warranties be handled? 

supposedly they are going to release answers to some of those questions in May according to their website....

[rule62]

Sorry for all of the nay-saying. It's just that they tried the same thing they're trying in Shreveport, in Pontiac about three years ago, and that failed. I'm just a bit skeptical that this will ever get off the ground. There is still some question as to whether a helmet will be required in those states that mandate them for 2-wheeled motorcycles.

I guess my contention is that almost all of my acquaintance's followers (lots of them are my friends) look at me on my Ducatis and give me all types of "that's too dangerous/I would never.../don't you think your wife worries?" crap, about my motorcycles, and then they sit back and glorify the elio... which is... in fact... just another motorcycle.

I have definitely pondered the Can-Am competition and brought it to their attention. That's typically when they change the subject. It's as if they're trying not to see how similar the vehicles really are.

[roggie]

i think id take one of these instead...

http://www.morgan3wheeler.co.uk/home.html

[Lars D]

I like the pizza.

[cyberswine]

Likely a blast but more information needed for sure, def something to watch.  And those Morgans are great, they made them years ago in the same style with the V twin out front.  I see the cost is now outrageous.

[Narflar]

I thought the reason they couldn't sell the T-Rexx (http://www.campagnamotors.com/) with a windshield was because it was classified as a motorcycle.  In a bunch of state laws it states a motorcycle cannot be enclosed. 

I wonder how this new 3 wheeler is going to get around the laws that dictate what a motorcycle is and isn't...

[LowThudd]

IDK, my Parents recently bought a Chevy Volt. They can get all the way from San Bernadino to the Valley(@80 miles) without using ANY fuel because of the regenerative braking going down hill. And it is a full sized(compact) car. Years ago I worked a an electric car company, and we were able to get 80 miles on a charge out of a full sized GM van using regen braking. Seems to me there are better ways to go about fuel conservation than going back to the idea of a car/motorcycle crossover(not a new idea). Another prime example is the upcoming Porsche 918 Spyder hybrid. It is faster in the corners than a 911 Turbo, because the electric motors kick in. And it can get 70 mpg, as well as a top speed of 170mph. Now that is a green vehicle I would love to daily drive. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-porsche-918-spyder-pricing-news The price is very prohibitive though. lol

[needtorque]

IDK, my Parents recently bought a Chevy Volt. They can get all the way from San Bernadino to the Valley(@80 miles) without using ANY fuel because of the regenerative braking going down hill. And it is a full sized(compact) car. Years ago I worked a an electric car company, and we were able to get 80 miles on a charge out of a full sized GM van using regen braking. Seems to me there are better ways to go about fuel conservation than going back to the idea of a car/motorcycle crossover(not a new idea). Another prime example is the upcoming Porsche 918 Spyder hybrid. It is faster in the corners than a 911 Turbo, because the electric motors kick in. And it can get 70 mpg, as well as a top speed of 170mph. Now that is a green vehicle I would love to daily drive. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-porsche-918-spyder-pricing-news The price is very prohibitive though. lol

Electric cars are NOT the answer.  First, the batteries, just like any other battery, will only last a few years.  To replace them will cost more than the car is worth.  Second, if the car is full electirc you have to plug it in to charge.  Where is the energy to charge it coming from?  Power plants using fossil fuels.  Third, the chemicals in the batteries are far worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels, and the batteries will fail.

Hybrid vehicles are a decent compromise but once again still using fossil fuels which supposedly harm the environment.

The best current option IMO is CNG which burns incredibly clean and is cheaper than gasoline.

[LowThudd]

Electric cars are NOT the answer.  First, the batteries, just like any other battery, will only last a few years.  To replace them will cost more than the car is worth.  Second, if the car is full electirc you have to plug it in to charge.  Where is the energy to charge it coming from?  Power plants using fossil fuels.  Third, the chemicals in the batteries are far worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels, and the batteries will fail.

Hybrid vehicles are a decent compromise but once again still using fossil fuels which supposedly harm the environment.

The best current option IMO is CNG which burns incredibly clean and is cheaper than gasoline.

I partially agree with you. HOWEVER, the coal burning power plants are burning 100% coal. It is possible to run up to 80% dry biomass(think christmas trees and lawn clippings), and still maintain the same efficiency. Why don't they? Because then coal miners would effectively be working for CHINA. China currently buys large amounts of coal from us. If we cut our use by even half, we would be selling more coal to China than we use. Secondly, there are many ways to produce electricity rather than coal/nuc etc. But, for what ever reason that has not happened.

As far as the Volt, it is a plug in Hybrid. Cool stuff, many options. My parents are saving LOTS of cash by using it for running around town on errands rather than the mini van. They are using 1/4 the fuel, the electricity is cheap in comparison. And this avoids using foreign oil(very good thing).

I run Biodiel in my '83 Merc Turbo diesel when I can get it. Runs better on that than petrol diesel. THAT is a very renewable resource. Especially when you consider that the Gov't subsidises farms to NOT grow crops in order to keep the market stable. Those farms could supply much of our diesel needs, if not all(look up algae biodiesel). Also, the life cycle of whatever plant is used for fuel eats more CO2 than the small amount of plant oil produces when burning.

Also, most of this is a moot point considering that 85% of our petroleum goes to fueling big diesel trucks, trains, busses, farm vehicles and aircraft. Comuter vehicles only use 15% of all petroleum in this country, and put out about the same percentage of poutants.

I could go on, but I am sure alot of people would get bored quickly. I have 100s of pages of research and studies on the subject. Not the right forum for this though I think.

Ultimately, enjoying WHATEVER form of pump reduction you choose is a good thing. Everyone has their own needs. Lets keep our dollars here, and not spend money on fuel that can be locally made supporting the US economy.

[Grampa]

go team Ural!

[Kopfjager]

go team Ural!

[redxblack]

As soon as I saw the Elio, I figured Mr. Bean would have a problem with it.

[77south]

Electric cars are NOT the answer.  First, the batteries, just like any other battery, will only last a few years.  To replace them will cost more than the car is worth.  Second, if the car is full electirc you have to plug it in to charge.  Where is the energy to charge it coming from?  Power plants using fossil fuels.  Third, the chemicals in the batteries are far worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels, and the batteries will fail.

Hybrid vehicles are a decent compromise but once again still using fossil fuels which supposedly harm the environment.

The best current option IMO is CNG which burns incredibly clean and is cheaper than gasoline.

I'm not trying to get political, but I wanted to offer a counter argument.

the answer is there's no one answer.  but point by point:
1) First, the batteries, just like any other battery, will only last a few years.

True, -but they can be recycled. 

2) To replace them will cost more than the car is worth.

Doubtful, especially as recycling electric car batteries becomes a multi-billion dollar operation.  costs will come down.

3)Second, if the car is full electric you have to plug it in to charge.  Where is the energy to charge it coming from?  Power plants using fossil fuels. 

Any kind of electricty can charge a battery.  Coal, nuclear fission, nuclear fusion, wind, solar, hydroelectric, oceanic thermocouples, geothermal, balloons rubbed on poyester shirts, wool socks on carpets, you name it.  I'm simplifying of course, but the power doesn't need to come from coal mines only.  Plenty of renewables are reliable enough to be deployed right now, others are getting there.  There is no one true path to the power of the future they all have their own drawbacks and they all have their own advantages.  Recently people are becoming more aware of and less tolerant of the drawbacks of coal.  Will it be phased out completely?  doubtful- but as less polluting energy sources proliferate, coal will lose many of the advantages that have put it on top.

4)Third, the chemicals in the batteries are far worse for the environment than burning fossil fuels, and the batteries will fail. 

And gas leaks from pipelines and coal mining sludge runs into rivers.  The batteries will be recycled.  Mostly.  They represent too valuable of a source of battery building materials, and too great a potential source of pollution to let them rot in a landfill.

5)The best current option IMO is CNG which burns incredibly clean and is cheaper than gasoline.

CNG is probably part of a solution.  Natural gas is not infinite, and still burns carbon and creates carbon dioxide, which are some of the big downfalls of all fossil fuels.

To meet the energy needs of the 21st century, the status quo won't work.  There's not enough oil and too many people who want to burn it.  With an increasingly industrialized world population who all want to eat and raise kids, coupled with dwindling reserves of fossil fuels,(and clean water) something has to change,- maybe everything.  The answer can't be one thing- no solution fixes everything with no drawbacks, it will likely be a combination of 5 or ten big changes and a thousand smaller ones.