Ducati sales down 5% in first quarter 2013

[justinrhenry]

Looks like the Japs got the Motard to mate somewhere down the line http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/624/16172/Motorcycle-Article/2014-Honda-Grom-First-Look.aspx 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I2FNtbgXgPA#!

maybe that guy is large, but that bikes seems very small.

[Slide Panda]

12" Wheels - so very small

[muskrat]

Motard seen for sale http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/mcy/3808662228.html
tempting, was hoping they'd be at 5k by now but who knows

[nickshelby500kr]

Motard seen for sale http://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/mcy/3808662228.html
tempting, was hoping they'd be at 5k by now but who knows

I saw that the other day and would totally jump on it if I had the money. Kbb says $8440 and nada says $9695. Someone is going to get a good deal.

[Kev M]

I've been riding Harleys (and Guzzis, and BMWs, and other air-cooled bikes) for over 2 decades. That ENTIRE time people were convinced that air-cooled bikes were done, next year, every year.

It's true that it has gotten harder and harder to get through the emissions standards, but EFI was a game changer.

In the end it will be up to the EU and EPA regulations to really determine when the end will come.

Obviously companies like Harley or BMW or Guzzi would be silly to ignore the possibilities and not research other solutions/designs/updates.

But the sky is not falling.

The new Indian/Polaris Thunderstroke engine is air cooled.  Polaris would have designed it to hang around for a while.  I hope Polaris is not the only company that can build EPA legal air cooled -oil too- V-twins in the next few years.  Indian and Victory.

To that end Moto Guzzi just designed a brand new Cali 1400 8V air-cooled motor as well. And just redesigned their 750 with significant updates.

I could be wrong, but I believe EVERY motorcycle company still sells at least some Air-Cooled motorcycles, and that's ALL that Harley, Guzzi, Victory/Indian, and Royal Einfield sell, not to mention Triumph has a significant portion of their annual sales in air-cooled models.

Now BMW looks like they're getting close to all-water cooled models, well sorta, the new GS is PARTIALLY water-cooled (heads only) It can supposedly run indefinitely on air-only cooling only should some component of the water-cooling system fail.

And it wouldn't surprise me if Ducati was next in line to go all water, unless it was one of the Japanese companies, though I still suspect they sell into enough markets that they would have some small air-cooled bike available somewhere long after Ducati made the final commitment.

Regardless, the sky is not falling.

Viva la "air-cooled" bikes.

 

[Kev M]

Then again, I've been wrong before   maybe it IS getting closer finally.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/06/04/new-moto-guzzi-liquid-cooled-v-twin-engine-work-in-progress/

The new California 1400 may be impressive, but it marks only the beginning of Moto Guzzi’s return to the splendors of the past because we have just learned some very significant news: A totally new 90-degree V-Twin engine is taking shape on the computers of Chief Project Engineer Federico Martini and his assistants.
 
This is not a further refurbishing of the old faithful V-Twin designed in the 1960s by legendary Chief Project Engineer Giulio Cesare Carcano. No, this engine is totally new, a compact, liquid-cooled design that is said to meet tightening future emissions requirements and be immensely more powerful than anything currently coming out of the Mandello del Lario factory.
 
Producing possibly as much as 140 horsepower, this new 1.3-liter V-Twin will reportedly have enough grunt to bring back the myth of the Moto Guzzi Le Mans models. As on the old Honda CX500, the gearbox of Moto Guzzi’s new liquid-cooled V-Twin will rotate in the opposite direction of the crankshaft to kill the torque reaction generated by any motorcycle engine with a longitudinal crank.
 
In contrast to the current air-cooled pushrod V-Twins (photo above), the new liquid-cooled Moto Guzzi V-Twin will be a double-overhead-cam engine with four valves per cylinder and inlet runners facing each other inside the Vee. Work is in progress, but the new liquid-cooled Moto Guzzi powerhouse is expected to be ready no earlier than 2015. Might we see this liquid-cooled motor in a new Moto Guzzi Le Mans sportbike? Stay tuned.

Of course, the US doesn't see new Guzzis for a year or more after they are introduced worldwide. And they say NO EARLIER than 2015, meaning we might not see something until 2020 lol.  

EDIT - and insiders from Mandello who post on WildGuzzi say that

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=62389.40

Martini already said that the 1400 air/oil cooled engine is already able to survive to at least two more EURO-X emission rules. The new engine isn't intended to substitute the air/oil unit, but to do things that the other can not do.

[MojoWorking]

I can say there's no shortage of sales of Ducati especially Monsters at the Coleman in FC, I worked there PT and the Monsters are usually the first to go, we have to get bikes from Ducpond or other mid Atlantic dealers.
[/quote
I'm late to this thead but not surprised Coleman is doing well as it is located in one the most affluent areas of the nation.

[Kev M]

I MAY have to recant one or more of my above posts.

Just left a local dealer who is CERTAIN Harley is going to announce that Water-Cooled motor for the 2014 Street Glide and a couple of their trikes.

If that's true the whole touring line can't be far behind - maybe by next summer (2015 models).

Time might finally be running on out my beloved air-cooled twins of multiple brands. 

[duc_fan]

It's hard to tell whether or how soon things would go all water-cooled.  Sometimes "those who cannot be mentioned on this board" move slowly... sometimes they move quickly.  Diesel vehicle emission controls are a prime example.  The allowable numbers have dropped dramatically since the 1990's, yet the industry did have years of warning that the regs were coming (and what the new requirements would be).  Unless you all know of new regs in the pipeline, and know when they will be enforced, I don't think it's possible to predict when liquid cooling will become required to meet said regs.  Obviously, they meet and exceed the current regs with air-cooled engines right now, and for at least the next few years (considering the investment we've seen in new air/oil designs).

Regardless of if/when Ducati goes all-water, the upshot is, there are parts galore and will be support long into the future for the Duc air-cooled twins.  Keeping older units running for decades should not be a problem.

[Slide Panda]

I MAY have to recant one or more of my above posts.

Just left a local dealer who is CERTAIN Harley is going to announce that Water-Cooled motor for the 2014 Street Glide and a couple of their trikes.

If that's true the whole touring line can't be far behind - maybe by next summer (2015 models).

Time might finally be running on out my beloved air-cooled twins of multiple brands. 

They have recently filed patents on water cooled heads and radiators worked into the leg shield doohickeys of one of the tour models. Waters coming to HD. a little time on google will get you the patent illustrations

[Kev M]

They have recently filed patents on water cooled heads and radiators worked into the leg shield doohickeys of one of the tour models. Waters coming to HD. a little time on google will get you the patent illustrations

I first saw those diagrams a couple of years ago, I'm well aware it was in the pipeline, just didn't think they were bringing it to market quite yet.

Still hoping they are staying ahead of the curve and will not have to make it line wide for a number of years.

[Slide Panda]

Not Duc news - but one of the sub topics in here/ Water cooled HD models announced

http://www.jsonline.com/business/harley-davidson-unveiling-eight-new-models-b9977387z1-220141861.html

[Kev M]

Yeah - actually there was a lot of good news in the midnight release of new HD models

Sportsters all can have ABS optional now. And whether or not they do they've upgraded the front brakes again (300mm rotor and stronger 34mm dual-piston caliper).

Touring models got the biggest changes - upgraded 103" motor for most models, water-cooled for only the top level Ultra-Glide and the Trike (for now) so you can still get air-cooled on most of them. They've gone to linked ABS Brembo brakes (I'm not a fan of the linking, but at least the ABS is still optional on most models). They've updated a lot of other little things too, saddlebags, hand controls, and a lot of electronics including full touch-screen GPS/Audio/Bluetooth/Text-to-Speech etc stuff.  A little more than I want on my bikes, but I'm glad they're trying to keep up in the markets in which they compete.

[Skybarney]

Here is a thought,  Maybe a water cooled Harley will be a good thing.  The lump of a heat pump that the current versions are good at cooking things and maybe (though doubtful) I will see less HD's on the side of the road broken down. 

[HotIce]

I MAY have to recant one or more of my above posts.
Just left a local dealer who is CERTAIN Harley is going to announce that Water-Cooled motor for the 2014 Street Glide and a couple of their trikes.

As usual, liquid cooled HD (I mean, really HD, not VRod stuff) has been in the rumors by forever (likely the more recurring post on HDForums after the usual Oil Thread), and still, did not happen even for 2014.
HD built its business success on people liking the tradition of the typical air cooled HD V-Twin, and those would not like (I put myself in the group) a liquid cooled HD.
For the rumors (which seem by far way more real than HD ones - see recent posts about it) about the new 1198cc liquid cooled Monster, I am split.
On one side, I'd like the more HP a liquid cooled engine would bring into the table, but, OTOH, this would also change the cleanness of the 2V air cooled engine lines, which I like a lot.