Making tight, low speed turns

[rose351]

What is the best way to practice or get better at these?  Like the ones used in the road test for the motorcycle endorsement or in making a U-turn on a tight two lane road, or in maneuvering around a tight parking lot or gas station?

I always seem to be coming up short and having to really crank it over towards the end of the turn and put a foot down.  Do I need to just go in an empty parking lot and practice making figure 8s over and over in a few parking spaces? 

Oh, and one more question.  I just got my new to me monster ('96 M900), and at really low speeds it feels a little jerky.  Do I need to practice more throttle and clutch control for the low speed parts?  I'm used to smaller bikes, and single cylinder thumpers, not the twin.  Is it something I'll just have to get used to?

Thanks a bunch 

-Ryan

[Ducatista]

Low speed turns are always going to be a bit lurchy.  What size sprocket are you running in front?  Just count the teeth.  The biggest thing is to look where you're going.  If you look at the pavement, that's where your head will go.  At very slow speeds, I just put a foot down if I'm going to be coming to a stop.  As long as I'm rolling, though, feet on the pegs.  Just get used to very fine throttle control and a smooth clutch hand.  Since your bike is a carbie, your throttle opening is smoother than on an FI bike.  Parking lots and practice will get you where you need to be.  School parking lots are pretty empty at this time of year.

[ScottRNelson]

Practice in an empty parking lot.  Use the lines of the parking spaces as reference points in making your tight U-turn.  Go in right on a line and see if you can come back out on the line three spaces over.  Once you can do that smoothly, see how much tighter you can make the turn.  Some people put down tennis balls cut in half to use as reference points.

For slow speed maneuvers like that, you want to use the clutch friction point to control all power.  You can just hold the throttle at about 3000 rpms and use the clutch to control how strongly it pulls and the rear brake to slow it back down.  In fact, when I'm doing real tight turns, I hold both the throttle and the clutch steady and control my speed with the rear brake.

You shouldn't be trying to tighten up the turn halfway through the turn, because you should be as tight as you can from the very beginning.  For a test like the California DMV riding test, the circle is 20 feet in diameter on the inside and 24 feet on the outside with (obviously) two foot wide lanes.  On my ST2, I'm at full lock pretty much the whole time I'm trying to go around that circle.  I can fairly easily do a U-turn inside the lines, but going around one and a half times is next to impossible.  Basically, I get to the turn, lean it in, give it more rear brake to tighten up the turn and release the rear brake a bit if I start to fall to the inside of the turn.

Go practice two dozen U-turns in a parking lot, including some right turns, then report back.

[rose351]

Practice in an empty parking lot.  Use the lines of the parking spaces as reference points in making your tight U-turn.  Go in right on a line and see if you can come back out on the line three spaces over.  Once you can do that smoothly, see how much tighter you can make the turn.  Some people put down tennis balls cut in half to use as reference points.

For slow speed maneuvers like that, you want to use the clutch friction point to control all power.  You can just hold the throttle at about 3000 rpms and use the clutch to control how strongly it pulls and the rear brake to slow it back down.  In fact, when I'm doing real tight turns, I hold both the throttle and the clutch steady and control my speed with the rear brake.

You shouldn't be trying to tighten up the turn halfway through the turn, because you should be as tight as you can from the very beginning.  For a test like the California DMV riding test, the circle is 20 feet in diameter on the inside and 24 feet on the outside with (obviously) two foot wide lanes.  On my ST2, I'm at full lock pretty much the whole time I'm trying to go around that circle.  I can fairly easily do a U-turn inside the lines, but going around one and a half times is next to impossible.  Basically, I get to the turn, lean it in, give it more rear brake to tighten up the turn and release the rear brake a bit if I start to fall to the inside of the turn.

Go practice two dozen U-turns in a parking lot, including some right turns, then report back.

Yes, sir.    [moto]

[mstevens]

Use the lines of the parking spaces as reference points in making your tight U-turn.  Go in right on a line and see if you can come back out on the line three spaces over.

Wow - that makes me feel better! I can fairly easily do 3 spaces. It's 2 that eats my lunch, even when I'm doing the MSF thing of hanging my butt off the outside to counterbalance the lean.

Once you can do that smoothly, see how much tighter you can make the turn.

Crud. Not much tighter, in my case - I can get to about 2 1/2 spaces. I've tried the steady throttle and using the clutch and rear brake, but I think my problem is that I just lack confidence enough to go fast enough and to start as tight as possible from the very beginning. I end up needing to put my foot down every time if I'm turning within 2 spaces. Obviously, I still need to practice more.

[jerryz]

Fundementals are look where u want to go ,use the rear brake and use throttle with good clutch control.

[johnster]

Just to add my .02 to what everone else has said:

-I find that tight low-speed u-turns are much easier if you hang your butt off the outside of the seat a bit, opposite the way you want to turn. This helps keep your body more upright so you can push the bike farther over, but still control it (Remember, there's no gyro in the wheels to keep the bike upright). Riding a dirtbike in sand is similar.

-Looking through the turn is absoutely critical. you will likely find that you can u-turn almost twice as tight just by looking more towards the direction you want to eventually be going.

[dropstharockalot]

Lee Park's Total Control has a very good section about cornering at low speeds.

+1 on the parking lot practice advice.

Your state should have the riders test maneuvers listed on-line... get a copy, snag a set of cheap orange sport cones, and set the test up in the school parking lot.  Just like the SAT or the LSAT, the best way to get better at the test is to practice the test.  If you already passed the test and are just looking to improve, the practice of these maneuvers will do that as well. 

If you're having trouble with the drills to start with, make the drills larger so you have more space.  Once you get better, start to shrink the size of the drills back down.

[PizzaMonster]

I have a buddy who rides a huge and heavy Harley Road King. ( I only hold that against him when it's for my benefit   ).  I figure if you can keep one of those big pigs from falling over on a tight course you must be doing something right!

He swears by the Ride Like a Pro video series.  He goes out to an empty parking lot on a Sunday morning with cones and practices his slow speed manouvres.  He says the videos have shown him plenty. 

I've never watched it but the riding on the preview clips is pretty impressive.   Maybe someone else here has seen them and can add a real endorsement.

http://ridelikeapro.com/html/videos.htm

[univox]

I have a copy of Ride Like a Pro IV and yes they show some crazy tight turns on some massive bikes. It's a bit deceptive though, those bikes are much more stable and the bars turn a lot more so it's initially easier to tighten up your turns. Sportier bikes require a bit more balance from the rider but ultimately have more potential.

[rose351]

Well, I went out and practiced about 30 minutes or so on Sunday, and a bit more yesterday too.  I got to the point where I could turn to the right in two spaces, but turning left took about 2.25 spaces.  I was just barely over the line.  I guess I need to turn in tighter at the beginning, but I'm worried about laying it over too far and dumping the bike at such a slow speed.  But thanks for all the tips, they all really helped! 

[ScottRNelson]

I'm worried about laying it over too far and dumping the bike at such a slow speed.

Do some more practice and learn how to make the bike go more upright by giving it power.  That's all it takes to correct a bike that is falling to the inside, assuming you don't give it too much power.

[sbrguy]

i did the ride like a pro class in socal and the moral of it besides some techniques they show you is that you get better by practicing simple as that..

there is no "secret" to doing tight turns and such besides practicign and getting over the fear that bike will fall, unfortunately to turn the tight 18ft circles you have to get over that fear.. easier said then done.  i couldnt' do it,

the instructor tried my m620 out ont eh course and within 2 minutes was easily doing the entire course, figure 8, offset cone drill, iron cross drill and uturns all within the smallest 18 foot diameter circles he had set out (i could only do it within the 21 foot circles), in other words these were the same smaller circles that he was doing with the harley roadking with full bags on it that was his bike.

we was doing the u-turn drill in the 18 foot circle with extra space to clear so he ws really doing it in somthing like almost 16 feet.

so basically our monsters can pull the turns in the tightest circles for any rider test, it just comes down to practicing- A LOT.

[ducfun]

I just got my new to me monster ('96 M900)...

rose351, I just wanted to say thanks for posting this. I've been having trouble with both of these (low speeds and tight turns). Oh, I just bought a '96 M900 too, so congrats!

[Ducatista]

If you've ever been afraid of tight slow turns or lean angle at low speeds, just check out this video.  You can skip the first minute, and then it gets to be fun:

http://www.youtube.com/v/s3WEKw3nTos&hl=en&fs=1