2013 MotoGP - Laguna Seca (spoilers!)

[Barney]

just turned this on...whats up with dudes taking their inside foot off the peg before the corners??

[kopfjäger]

just turned this on...whats up with dudes taking their inside foot off the peg before the corners??

Rossi started it, apparently about balance (?)

[kopfjäger]

The pass ala Rossi. The 20yr old is magical.

[kopfjäger]

IMHO you should not be able to pass off of the circuit. (?)

[Raux]

i always thought if you make a position by cutting a corner you get a penalty, but maybe that's a different series.

the way I see it,  Rossi pushed him out, but I think Marquez knew that would happen and hoped to put himself in a position to use it.

[kopfjäger]

i always thought if you make a position by cutting a corner you get a penalty, but maybe that's a different series.

the way I see it,  Rossi pushed him out, but I think Marquez knew that would happen and hoped to put himself in a position to use it.

You can't advance your position going off the track in F1 or NASCAR or IRL. Why is it ok in GP?

[Raux]

maybe because goign off track on a bike has more consequences in itself, so it leads to it's own punishment?

[kopfjäger]

maybe because goign off track on a bike has more consequences in itself, so it leads to it's own punishment?

I don't buy that. I think they don't care about a race line. The track is what it is.

[ZLTFUL]

Actually, it is illegal to advance your position by going off track. *But* the distinction lies in whether or not the pass was completed before the off track excursion.
In both 2008 and this year's instances, both passes were completed before the bikes went off track and then re-entered the course.

A fine line to be sure, but a line nonetheless.

The rule is more agressively enforced in WSBK where riders have been given position penalties, ride-throughs and been black flagged for off course passes.

[gm2]

In both 2008 and this year's instances, both passes were completed before the bikes went off track and then re-entered the course.

ding!

[Spidey]

Without re-arguing the 2008 pass . . .

It's not just about whether your wheel is ahead of the other person in determining whether the pass was completed before the off-track excurusion.  If you make a pass and are ahead, but the only way that you managed to do that was to make a move that required you to run off the track, then you chose to run off the track in order to get ahead of someone, i.e. you've taken an advantage.  In that sense, one can argue ( ) that 2008 and 2013 are different passes.  It's not clear that Rossi was going to make the turn in 2008.  In 2013, Marquez didn't make the turn because Rossi braked late and pushed him off line.  We don't need to argue whether Rossi was gonna stay on track when he passed Stoner, but let's at least acknowledge that the passes are a bit different.

[ZLTFUL]

Rossi, already clearly ahead of Stoner before going off track:


Marquez, already clearly ahead of Rossi before going off track:


The passes happen at different points in the Corkscrew, and in that regard, they are indeed different passes.
But, the fact still remains that both passes were completed before the off track portion which is where the core discussion was...whether or not either rider gained an advantage in position by using the off track excursion...neither did.

Granted, in 2008, Rossi re-entered as Stoner was trying to re-take the position, but then it would be a case of Stoner trying to monopolize on the error and not an instance of Rossi trying to gain the position.

Marquez didn't stick around to discuss it after he passed Rossi so that part isn't an argument either.

[Speeddog]

The passes are the same in one respect, both Rossi in '08 and Marquez in '13 completed the pass, and subsequently ran off track.

However, in '08, Stoner stayed on track.
'13, Rossi did not stay on track.

So, in that respect, '08 was as if two riders were approaching a chicane, and the following rider doesn't slow down, making the 'pass' while still on track, but then going down the escape road and keeping the pass.
Wrong, IMO.

[OT]

Reducto ad absurdum....imo, just another case of MM stuffing it up the inside on a turn but, in this case, he had a physical 'out' cause it's a chicane, not a one-direction turn.

I say he should have been shown the paddock on this one...cutting off corners and playing 'chicken' on the corkscrew is not the sporting thing to do.

[Triple J]

Reducto ad absurdum....imo, just another case of MM stuffing it up the inside on a turn but, in this case, he had a physical 'out' cause it's a chicane, not a one-direction turn.

I say he should have been shown the paddock on this one...cutting off corners and playing 'chicken' on the corkscrew is not the sporting thing to do.

Playing chicken, and stuffing it up the inside??? He passed Rossi on the outside, and only ran wide because Rossi did trying to defend it. He almost certainly would have made the corner otherwise. Should he pull up alongside Rossi and politely ask him to pass instead?  

Rossi's pass on the other hand WAS stuffing it up the inside, and he had no way of making the corner, running off the track. I'm with Speeddog on this one.