Talk 749S to me

[Slide Panda]

Working a line on a track only 749S.

Are there any 749S exclusive items or gotchas I should be sure to inspect? Being a track bike, I know it's not perfect - that's a given. And know it needs a respring /suspension refresh I'd rather not get and extra set of unexpected woe on top of the expected woe.

[nickshelby500kr]

No there isn't any weirdness with them. I have an S and its got about 5000 track miles and runs strong. I would ride it and it sounds like it has a super changer whine, i would worry cause its either belts being too tight, or a main bearing going bad.

[Speeddog]

Biggest issue IMO is that they've got the 6mm valve stems with the taper-lock collets.
Changing closer shims requires 6mm-specific equipment, *and* removing the sideplate on the head.
The original Factory Approved method required removing the heads to swap closer shims.
Equipment and techniques have been developed to avoid that now.
They do tend to hold valve clearance well, which is really about the only bonus.

Doing a valve service on one is generally aggravating due to all the parts that have to come off, and the way the valve cover and cam end bores are sealed.
Syncing TB's is aggravating because they're inside the airbox.

Pull the coils, see if there's oil in the spark plug cavity.
Seems common that the valve cover gasket leaks there.

Check the subframe, very common for the rear seat mount tabs to break.
Also, the front mounts of subframe, make sure they haven't been FUBARed by running with the bolts loose.

They're the most difficult SBK to do engine work on.

OEM cambelts are retardedly expensive.
CaCW has belts that are ~same price as their other 4V belts.

Some of the PITA aspects of maintenance may have been made a bit easier if quality race bodywork has been fitted, headlight removed, etc.

[nickshelby500kr]

Biggest issue IMO is that they've got the 6mm valve stems with the taper-lock collets.
Changing closer shims requires 6mm-specific equipment, *and* removing the sideplate on the head.

I thought this was only 2004-2006 S models? The 2003 S was almost identical to the base with like a 5hp bump due to better cams.

[Triple J]

I would recommend making sure it hasn't ever had a broken crank. If it has I would pass, unless the cases were replaced with the crank. My understanding is the cases can (not always) become damaged when a crank breaks, which is hard to diagnose, and leads to continual problems.

I tried to race a 2006 749S. It had spun the crank bearing under previous owner (stock motor), then during the repair it was bored out to an 834 with balanced crank and custom pistons (all by Ben Fox...so good)...it made an honest 130hp at the wheel.   I bought it in this shape...3rd race weekend it broke the crank in half...repaired and immediately (like 3 laps) the main crank bearing went bad...repaired and it seized after 4 laps. The seize was most likely due to a mechanic mistake, but the rest was something else. Most people think the cases were likely bad from the original problem...I'm not a mechanic, so don't really know. I sold it in the FUBAR condition, as I didn't want to look at it any longer.

Other general 749 issues...they're heavy for a middleweight, and the brakes kind of suck. SBS carbon brake pads help the brakes a LOT, so I'd recommend them. I also found the 749 harder to ride than the 748/848. Super stable, but didn't like to turn, and the long reach to the handlebars made correct body position difficult. They can obviously be very quick, but it takes a lot more work than other bikes (getting on an R6 was a revelation). The suspension was dialed in for me, but I never had enough time to mess with geometry to try to improve things.

Good luck...I wish mine wouldn't have imploded. It sounded great, looked good, was very fast, and I was getting used to muscling it around.

[Slide Panda]

the long reach to the handlebars made correct body position difficult. They can obviously be very quick, but it takes a lot more work than other bikes (getting on an R6 was a revelation). The suspension was dialed in for me, but I never had enough time to mess with geometry to try to improve things.

Good luck...I wish mine wouldn't have imploded. It sounded great, looked good, was very fast, and I was getting used to muscling it around.

Long reach isn't an issue - I've got monkey arms . I stand just shy of 6', but with a 6'4" arm span...

A little more detail on your 749 vs R6 experience - I'd like to hear.

[nickshelby500kr]

Even though I wasn't the one that was asked, I did not like how wound up I felt the r6 needed to be going through turns. And the 749 felt way more planted through the turns than the r6 did. And because its an S you can play with the rake from 23.5-24.5 degrees to achieve your personal preference.

With that said, 749 parts are getting hard to find and expensive when you do. R6's are plentiful and cheap.

[Triple J]

A little more detail on your 749 vs R6 experience - I'd like to hear.

The R6 is the best middleweight made right now IMO (for the track). They're inexpensive to buy and also repair (cheapest parts of all bikes according to my motor builder), reliable, and handle fantastic. There's a reason why they're the bike of choice for middleweight club racing. The GSXR is 2nd, followed by the ZX-6r, CBR600, 848 (probably tied). R6 is the most nimble of the bunch. I have an '03 R6, which I chose because it lets me ride in the 8+ y/o bike classes. The new ones are just more of the same, but better overall according to guys who have raced both. I was told by my motor builder to get either an '03/'04 or an '08+. '05-'07 aren't as favored, but are still good.

As far as the 749/R6 comparison:

Weight...my R6 is 40 lbs lighter than the 749 in similar trim. This helps with everything, especially turning and braking. Newer R6s aren't quite as light.

The R6 brakes are much better than the 749s. Not sure why, but likely due a lot to weight. SBS carbon pads make the 749 good though (I run them on the R6 too).

The 749 is more stable. This is only noticeable (to me anyway) in high speed corners (100+) where the R6 can feel a little "loose" compared to the 749. Not a big deal, as you get used to it.

The R6 turns much easier. This is noticeable everywhere, and why I really like it. The 749 would wear me out a lot more than the R6 does, and I tended to run wide more on the 749. If I wasn't off the bike a lot, and very good about looking through corners, the 749 would bite me. The R6 is just more forgiving in general. I matched my best 749 time, my 1st time out on the R6.

The R6 feels "busier" from a power delivery standpoint. You can feel the constant power delivered to the rear wheel, whereas the Duc's firing order feels less busy on the rear wheel. Not a positive or negative, just an observation.

My 749 was WAY faster down the straight than my R6, having about 15 more HP. If only it didn't keep imploding!   I do miss the power though. Newer R6s are better, and stock 749s aren't near as fast as mine was.

749 has way more torque, and is more forgiving if you're in the wrong gear. I do miss this about the Duc, but it's no big deal if you keep the revs up on the R6...and I used to hit the rev limiter on my Ducs which was annoying. It's the same thing really...keep revs down on the Duc, or up on the R6.

R6 motors are generally bomb proof. My '03 got a full rebuild (supersport build) with some headwork this winter, as I didn't know the condition. Cost was about $2K, and the motor has run flawless for 6 rounds (18 races) + trackdays and practice sessions so far this season. My buddy has an '03 and an '04. Both had the same build as mine are on their 3rd season racing, and each have also done 4 endurance races (2 - 6 hour, 1 - 4 hour, and a 5 hour) without a problem.

[Slide Panda]

Though I asked Jx3, doesn't mean other options aren't welcome  

Any duc's gonna suffer from some of that parts cost issue. That's a known. The common 749/999 parts are still pretty plentiful on ebay. Not R6 plentiful but there.

This particular bike does have the bonus of being super easy of me to physically get. Gathering up details the miles and maint log so I can make an informed decision

[nickshelby500kr]

Another plus is they look excellent in track-guise.

[Slide Panda]

Biggest issue IMO is that they've got the 6mm valve stems with the taper-lock collets.
Changing closer shims requires 6mm-specific equipment, *and* removing the sideplate on the head.

Doing a valve service on one is generally aggravating due to all the parts that have to come off, and the way the valve cover and cam end bores are sealed.
Syncing TB's is aggravating because they're inside the airbox.

Some of the PITA aspects of maintenance may have been made a bit easier if quality race bodywork has been fitted, headlight removed, etc.

What sort of extra time/effort factor do those valves make for - roughly?

it does have race fairings, headlight's gone etc. It's a track bike already.

[Triple J]

Another plus is they look excellent in track-guise.

Agreed! 

[Speeddog]

I thought this was only 2004-2006 S models? The 2003 S was almost identical to the base with like a 5hp bump due to better cams.

What I've seen leads me to believe that the 749S wasn't available in the US in '03.

But it is Ducati, so YMMV.

What sort of extra time/effort factor do those valves make for - roughly?

it does have race fairings, headlight's gone etc. It's a track bike already.

I generally quote about 20% more, but tell the customer that it could be less if none of the closers need changing.
Pulling the sideplates on the vertical head looks like a big hassle.
I've only had to pull sideplates on horizontals, and that's a hassle.

The track-only mods would help, if they're done well.
I don't do many track bikes, but some of the janky shyt I've seen done makes them more difficult.

[nickshelby500kr]

What I've seen leads me to believe that the 749S wasn't available in the US in '03.

The only reason I know is because mine is an 03.

[Slide Panda]

I don't do many track bikes, but some of the janky shyt I've seen done makes them more difficult.

There might be some Jank... but I'd resolve that.