OFFICIAL: Closed Loop ECU mods

[Moronic]

has anyone actually had no issues with the pcIII and the fat duc combined? in my head it sounds like the fuel map that transitions from the open to closed loop might be harsh and cause the bike to not settle well.

Post here on another forum from Ducati Seattle showing their dyno curve from running two FatDucs and a PCIII to tune an 1198 on the stock chip.

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=64399&highlight=Akrapovic+1198&page=2

I imagine they used the two FatDucs because the bike has (IIRC) two 02 sensors, one for each cylinder.

Relevant post is about number 10 on this page.

Follow-up post on next page has full details of set-up:

That is not a chart of Rob's bike but of our demo with stock ECU, PC3 with single map and dual fatducs. That perceived dip is not something you can feel at all when riding.

Curves look pretty nice.

They make the point that another 1198 they are tuning that has a DP ECU and full Akra system (Rob's bike, in quote above) made no more power.

CDawg, Dynojet in reply to my query said the stock (S4Rs) ECU remains in closed loop until you are over 5250rpm AND 19pc throttle. Hence, at 9pc you are in closed-loop whatever the revs, they claim.

[solstice0000]

Hey thanks for your advice - yotogi, CDawg and He Man! 

Yes, I did open up the air box to go with the high flow K&N filter and full system Zards.  After receiving your collective advice, I shall:

1.  Give it a go to:
(i) Reach out to Fred at Silverback - not sure if he would be able to help me as my issue stems from a difference in environment factors/conditions (eg. fuel gravity etc.) between the U.S. and Singapore/Malaysia.  I had asked Brian Sharp at Boulder Motorsports (who seems to have a good reputation and whom I bought the Nemesis from) but he wasn't particularly helpful post-sales, just brief replies to my emails.  I suppose he was busy racing and I'm not based in the U.S.
(ii) Tinker with the nemesis software (as He Man suggests).  I just thought I'd leave tuning to the experts but it appears that there are NO experts re the Nemesis in my neighbourhood.

2.  Failing which, I will go the FatDuc route (you are right, yotogi, it is after all only $80! Btw, is there a thread on how-to install & adjust the FatDuc?).  CDawg, is it an absolute must for me to install the PCIII once my airbox is opened?  It seems to run ok so far - though my rectifier did die on me yesterday on the city freeway (thankfully not while touring in the middle of nowhere).

Thanks again to all!

[Keld]

(ii) Tinker with the nemesis software (as He Man suggests).  I just thought I'd leave tuning to the experts but it appears that there are NO experts re the Nemesis in my neighbourhood.

Its not that dificult to adjust the map yourself, or if you have a local tuner worth his name, he should be able to do that for you.

[yotogi]

2.  Failing which, I will go the FatDuc route (you are right, yotogi, it is after all only $80! Btw, is there a thread on how-to install & adjust the FatDuc?).  CDawg, is it an absolute must for me to install the PCIII once my airbox is opened?  It seems to run ok so far - though my rectifier did die on me yesterday on the city freeway (thankfully not while touring in the middle of nowhere).

There may be a thread somewhere, it is so stupid easy to install, it hardly merits it though. Just unplug the O2 sensor at the harness (left side of bike, in front of vertical cylinder), plug the FatDuc into the O2 sensor side, and into the harness. Zip-tie up and go!

The more you open your intake and exhaust systems the more likely you are to need modifications to you fueling. When you open it up, you will definitely benefit more from the PC3. Your mix may be so far off as to really need to have it. With your modifications and even though you seem to be running ok, a properly mapped PC3 would only benefit you.

[CDawg]

The more you open your intake and exhaust systems the more likely you are to need modifications to you fueling. When you open it up, you will definitely benefit more from the PC3. You mix may be so far off as to really need to have it. With you modifications and even though you seem to be running ok, a properly mapped PC3 would only benefit you.

Agreed!  Also think of FatDuc as shift the entire closed loop fueling map up or down.  A PCIII (which allows you to change the shape of the map) is not absolutely necessary, but if were willing to spend the $$$ for Nemesis, then the PCIII is a bargain.

solstice0000,
Also, the Nemesis is dramatically more complicated than PCIII.  If you tinker, just realize that you have to fiddle with A/F map, ignition timing, idle, cold start map, etc...  It took Fred ~3 days to perfect it and that is in the hands of an expert.  It is essentially programming a new race computer.

[solstice0000]

Thanks again, guys - sadly, there apparently isn't a local tuner worth a dime in my neck of the woods.  So it looks like I know which is the route to definitely take now!  Any recommendations on the best place to get my hands on a PCIII for my 07 S4RS?

[solstice0000]

Coming back to you guys with a quick question on the FatDuc O2 manipulator: I mentioned to my local Ducati dealership mechanic that I was considering using the Fatduc and PCIII combination and he said that their experience with the Fatduc wasn't positive because it would only be a matter of time before the stock ECU would consistently analyse the air-fuel mixture and realise that it was running richer (cos of the Fatduc), and subsequently make adjustments to bring the ECU etc back to its original A/F setting.  As such, he recommended  the DP ECU that comes with the Termignoni slip-on or full system instead.

Does this make sense to you guys?  Thanks for your help and advice in advance.

[Howie]

Coming back to you guys with a quick question on the FatDuc O2 manipulator: I mentioned to my local Ducati dealership mechanic that I was considering using the Fatduc and PCIII combination and he said that their experience with the Fatduc wasn't positive because it would only be a matter of time before the stock ECU would consistently analyse the air-fuel mixture and realise that it was running richer (cos of the Fatduc), and subsequently make adjustments to bring the ECU etc back to its original A/F setting.  As such, he recommended  the DP ECU that comes with the Termignoni slip-on or full system instead.

Does this make sense to you guys?  Thanks for your help and advice in advance.

Nope.  The modified signal from the O₂ would be the only way the computer could realize this.

[CDawg]

Nope.  The modified signal from the O₂ would be the only way the computer could realize this.

+1.  Dealer trying to up sell you a $1200 product.

[He Man]

that makes no sense at all. I hate when dealers just say that stuff to make you buy things.

The o2 sensor sends a signal to the ECU but its intercepted by device. so the ecu compensates by adding a bit more fuel. sends that signal to the injectors, and the fatduc unit tries to maintain this mixture so the next sensor reading will tell the ECU, this is good. keep up the good work.

The ecu will only know its being fooled if it finds out about mr.fat duc and O2's secret relationship.

[yotogi]

I would go back and put your dealer on the spot for this. If they don't understand how the bike works well enough to be able to answer questions like this correctly, they shouldn't get the privilege of your service money. If someone doesn't know something, they should just keep their trap shut.

Of course, your dealer could be spouting what they had been told, but it seems to me if they believed what they said, they really have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the most complicated part of your bike works.

[solstice0000]

Really appreciate all your insights and advice...thanks lots again!

[yotogi]

Linked from another thread, but does give some interesting dyno numbers and analysis of the 1000DS engine in all it's mysterious glory.

http://www.bikeboy.org/sr21000.html

Maybe a derby, but didn't find anything when I looked.

[WhiteStripe]

Btw, is there a thread on how-to install & adjust the FatDuc

I started one a few weeks back to try to colelct some info on where others are running theirs, not that many people have chimed in but may be helpful.

As for install - very simple as said above.  I zip tied mine to the fram so i can adjust it wasily while i am messing around with it.

Good luck.

[nikkimonster]

im a new monster s4r owner. what if i just remove the stock double barrel exhaust only and run it with just the bulky think under the motor. do i need to remap/ecu/fatduck ?