OFFICIAL: Closed Loop ECU mods

[krasniewski]

OK, so is anyone running a FatDuc O2 Manipulator to take charge in the closed loop system, and a PCIII to cover the Open Loop portion on an  '07 S2R1000? If so, what PC map are you using?

I ordered both and am going to see how it works.  Seems like it'd be worth it (cost wise, if it works) if you're not on the track... I'm not going to jump into a $1,500 ECU anytime soon, so it's this or nothing.  I don't feel like pulling and sending out the ECU for reflash either.  I've got miles of tarmac to cover.  ;-)


Mike

[He Man]

I dont get why people complain about a few days lost riding from sending their ECU out, its not like its going to take weeks for it to get back to you...

anyway the o2 manipulator doenst "take charge" of the closed loop system, it just takes every value of the O2 sensor and maniupluates it to a higher or lower value and the ECU will adjust accordingly. So it wouldn't make sense for you to install a PCIII since the bike is still running off data from the O2 sensor. So you just wasted you're money. Ontop of which, the PCIII is kind of funky to work with on a S2R1000. You can unplug the O2 sensor completely, but on the 07's it will most likely trigger the engine light switch. From there you can install the PCIII and see if it works.

[krasniewski]

Well, I got both the FatDuc O2 manipulor and the PCIII today.

I don't see why they shouldn't work together.  One will enrichen the mix in the closed loop, one will enrichen the mix in open loop... and both are adjustable.

Anyway, I put the FatDuc on first, and loved it immediately.  From start and idle, to cruising around, you can tell it works, and it works well.  No more backfires, dying while cold, et al.

The PCIII was more or less a straight forward install, and feels like it has a smoother, stronger pull from mid-range to up-high.

I base this on nothing.

Don't ask me for a dyno.

[CDawg]

I don't see why they shouldn't work together.  One will enrichen the mix in the closed loop, one will enrichen the mix in open loop... and both are adjustable.

That is correct.  It has been hypothesized that the FatDuc and PCIII would work well together.

[dbran1949]

UPDATED - added new product:
ProTune ECU Remap Kit - Allows reprograming of the Magneti Marelli 5AM and previous 59M units, which are used on all post 1987 Ducati models with 9 stages of tuning available (including reverting to OEM map).  Product introduced March'09...need user input!
http://www.motowheels.com

Just to be clear. I read the web page. If I remap with say stage 2, then i pull out my db killers and want to switch to stage 4.

1. I have to send the ProTune kit back to you to get it reset?
2. Is there a charge for this?

The text reads:

Once a remap module has been down loaded onto an ECU unit, data can only be transferred from this particular ECU unit.

This part seems to imply that the ProTune gets locked to a particular ECU which is understandable if you want to sell more than one

If a user requires a map upgrade because he has subsequently changed the tuning state on his motorcycle, this can also be done by sending us the re-loader for a new map.

This part implies that it is a one shot deal, once re-maped you can only go back to stock without sending the unit back to you

[CDawg]

Just to be clear...I have to send the ProTune kit back to you to get it reset?...Is there a charge for this?

You have to contact MotoWheels.  I am not affiliated with any of the products on the first post.  I just aggregate it.

[woodyracing]

I installed a FatDuc on a Multistrada 1100S a couple days ago and did a before/after dyno run.  Gained about 2-3HP but more importantly the bike rode a lot better.  I wouldn't say that its perfect since obviously your not building custom maps but it did smooth the bike out a lot, cleared out the low throttle stumble the bike had before.  The difference on the street was very noticeable.  Easily the best bang for your buck option.  Had about the same experience with one on an 1198 a week or two ago but we didn't get to do the dyno comparison. 

[moto]

Just to be clear. I read the web page. If I remap with say stage 2, then i pull out my db killers and want to switch to stage 4.

1. I have to send the ProTune kit back to you to get it reset?
2. Is there a charge for this?

The text reads:

Once a remap module has been down loaded onto an ECU unit, data can only be transferred from this particular ECU unit.

This part seems to imply that the ProTune gets locked to a particular ECU which is understandable if you want to sell more than one

If a user requires a map upgrade because he has subsequently changed the tuning state on his motorcycle, this can also be done by sending us the re-loader for a new map.

This part implies that it is a one shot deal, once re-maped you can only go back to stock without sending the unit back to you

The Protune comes with a DP map loaded on it. If you change your bike down the road, you can send just the Protune kit over to us for us to load another map. There will be a slight charge for this service. The charge has not been determined yet but it will be less than the cost of the hardware and software required to do it yourself.

There is plans to make it a complete do-it-yourself re-load but they have some technical and licensing details to work out still. So far it has not been an issue. The maps are very good. So far no-one has had a need to get another map.

-M

[Monstro]

The Protune comes with a DP map loaded on it. If you change your bike down the road, you can send just the Protune kit over to us for us to load another map. There will be a slight charge for this service. The charge has not been determined yet but it will be less than the cost of the hardware and software required to do it yourself.

There is plans to make it a complete do-it-yourself re-load but they have some technical and licensing details to work out still. So far it has not been an issue. The maps are very good. So far no-one has had a need to get another map.

-M

Martin,
PM sent.

[solstice0000]

I am based in Singapore-Malaysia and have a Zard full system exhaust & K&N high flow filter on my 07 Monster S4RS.  As is, with the stock ECU, my bike is very 'snatchy' in the lower RPMs/speed, but fine in the higher RPM/speed.  I bought the Nemesis 2 ECU from Brian Sharp @ Boulder Motorsports, CO, & it came with a map for my bike.  Mechanic installed it on my bike but it was way too rich that it burnt a spark plug shortly - idling really high @ 1.8-2K rpm.

Am sure its a great product BUT (here's the really important part for the rest of us who reside in this part of the world and NOT the U.S. or Europe), there was just no tuner in my neck of the woods knowledgeable about the Nemesis and, therefore, it couldn't be tuned to run in our local conditions. I contacted Mick Boasman of Competition Systems Ltd UK and he said:

"This is not unheard of, it seems your fuel over there has a significantly lower specific gravity which means that for one injection opening more fuel flows through it. So any maps made over here or in the USA run pretty rich for you guys, which is why your bike fouled a plug over the first days running.  We do not have any 'off the shelf' maps designed to run on your fuel but it should be a simple matter of reducing the injection time  globally which can be done in the software, keep dropping a few percent until you get it right, and remember to do both cylinders."

When I wrote back for more specific help as the tuners in Singapore and Malaysia are more product-specific (Dynojet PCIII or for Ducatis, mainly DP+Termignonis), Mick replied, "Unless you can find somebody local who can make these changes and understand how to it from the manual then you are in trouble...The manual is intended for instructing an engine tuner how to use the software, it is not intended to teach them how to do it. We presume that any tuner who wishes to use Nemesis already has engine tuning experience so simply has to adapt to some new software. We do not teach users how to tune engines."

So thats it, I have learnt lesson, possess a virgin Nemesis ECU to sell and now still need an alternate solution.  I'm fine with the higher RPM but need something to smooth out the lower range.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated - how about the FatDuc O2 Manipulator?

[yotogi]

So thats it, I have learnt lesson, possess a virgin Nemesis ECU to sell and now still need an alternate solution.  I'm fine with the higher RPM but need something to smooth out the lower range.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated - how about the FatDuc O2 Manipulator?

According to all reports, the FatDuc would address your low RPM surging and throttle response issues, and at $80, how could you go wrong trying it?

[CDawg]

solstice0000,
2 advices:
1) if you go the FatDuc route you will likely also need to purchase the PCIII.  I'm assuming you opened up the airbox with the Zards.  If you didn't then you might not need the PCIII
2) you should reach out to Fred at Silverback Performance who is one of the gurus on the Nemisis for the 1098.  I don't buy the response, it reads like the idle trim/stepper motor is not set properly.  Heck, the 1098 map may a good place for your tuner to start since there is a chance your tuner will only have to fiddle with the A/F map and all else is already tested by Silverback.

my 2 cents...

[CDawg]

First post edited:

FatDuc:
May occasionally cause the check engine light to come on when you first start the bike.  FatDuc is aware of the issue.  This is caused by the idle being set too rich and over idling (30~40 minutes) resulting in carbon build up in the O2 probe.  Proposed cure includes not idling too long or WOT it once in a while to clean the probe.

[He Man]

has anyone actually had no issues with the pcIII and the fat duc combined? in my head it sounds like the fuel map that transitions from the open to closed loop might be harsh and cause the bike to not settle well.

regarding the nemsis software, it might be a good idea to learn how to use the software by tinkering with it, i think youll come out on top.

[CDawg]

has anyone actually had no issues with the pcIII and the fat duc combined? in my head it sounds like the fuel map that transitions from the open to closed loop might be harsh and cause the bike to not settle well.

For what its worth, it won't be any harsher from using the PCIII alone if it's mapped properly.  Now as to whether PCIII has truly found the close/open loop point...I don't know.  BAsed on their literature, what happens tothe stock ECU if you are at 5500 RPM and only 9% TPS?  is the open loop or closed loop???