OFFICIAL: Closed Loop ECU mods

[lillo]

I've heard this but nobody can provide proof to back this claim up.  Some say only the dealer can reset the TPS with their proprietary software, some say you can on/off the ignition 3 times to reset it, some say it automatically resets at every ignition cycle...which is true and which is interwebs BS?  who knows.  I have yet to see ACTUAL written proof of any of these methods...

I spoke with a ducati master tech from motocora and he confirmed that by doing on/off the ignition 3 times resets the TPS for the new monsters!

I removed my termi with DP ecu because sold my bike , they are pratically brand new only 250 mi on them. PM if interested. thanks.

[ATF]

You can calibrate the TPS with a PCV and eliminate the O2 sensors using these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxygen-o2-sensor-eliminator-Ducati-Monster-Hypermotard-696-796-1100-/251374121997?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a8710b40d

[koko64]

Those look like very simple in line versions. Very tidy. Do they set the closed loop AFR to 13.6? Are they Dynojet Optimizers and can they be opened and adjusted?
Chlikes

Edit: They are O2 Eliminators by Smart Moto.

[LuckyDuc]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum.  I just purchased a 2007 S2R 1000 with 14k miles on it.  The previous owner installed a full Arrow CF exhaust on it, but no Power commander.  So I purchased a PCIII and took it to my performance shop for a custom map.

Got it back and noticed I still had popping issues on deceleration in the low rpm ranges.  Top end seemed much better though.  After finding this forum and doing a little research I discovered that the PCIII has no effect in the "closed loop" rpm ranges.

So... thanks to this thread I have ordered a Fat duc O2 manipulator to help out in the closed loop range.  Hoping this helps to reduce the popping on decel.  Thanks for the great info.

Regards,
Sean

[koko64]

You can calibrate the TPS with a PCV and eliminate the O2 sensors using these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxygen-o2-sensor-eliminator-Ducati-Monster-Hypermotard-696-796-1100-/251374121997?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a8710b40d

I have ordered a set of these Greek style O2 eliminators. They appear to run along the lines of the Bazzaz O2 eliminators which are not just Optimizers ala Power Commander, but close off the circuit and allow the O2 sensors to be removed and the bung holes sealed off for a tidy result.

The Bazzaz version gives a very rich AFR with plug fouling results requiring up to 20% less fuel to be tuned out via the Bazzaz or PCV devices according to the Bazzaz blurb. The Bazzaz version are claimed to allow mapping over the closed loop section with O2 sensors deleted without a reflash. The PCV Optimizers run at an economic and reasonable (but on the lean side) 13.6 AFR which can give me about 200kms out of a tank of HWY riding and being a good citizen. Not bad. These run in line of the O2 sensors which must stay.

If the Greek style O2 eliminators ("Smartmoto" brand) are ok and don't chew too much juice at their base setting (and really let the PCV or Bazzaz map work in the normally closed loop stage), then that would be a great thing. What I can't ascertain is whether they just do the Optimizer thing sans O2 sensors or actually let you map over them so to speak. We'll see.

One thing of note is that the PC and Smartmoto optimizers dont have an external earth wire to the frame or battery like the Bazzaz version. Im guessing this emulates the O2 sensor being earthed to the motor via the exhaust. Interesting then how the Smartmoto version eliminate the O2 sensors without this and still tells the ECU that all is good.
Your thought are welcome.

[koko64]

Oba! The O2 eliminators from Smart Moto arrived!
Ok, an update. They are definitely not an in line unit and intended to eliminate the O2 sensors. They are very tidy. I do not know if they provide a set AFR baseline input to the ECU or require the PCV map to do its thing. Im gonna find out.

[DarkMonster620]

From little of what I've read, they emulate the resistance of the O2/Lambda sensors; couldn't find at what load/rpm . . . pkease let us know

[koko64]

I just tested them on my regular low end and lower midrange course (20-55 mph). The bike is definitely smoother with the ECU closed loop surging removed. The idle and off idle rpm are more stable too, with only the stepper motor doing it's thing, but much more subtly now.

It's nice not to have the ECU second guessing my throttle inputs now that the O2 sensor intrusiveness is removed. In the tight stuff, I have better throttle control and don't need to slip the clutch as much. It's great not having the ECU fighting me! With the closed loop intact, even with optimizers, the bike was difficult to ride in wet or greasy conditions and when you add the light engine internals, a bit unsafe. It felt like ride by wire turned evil. I will have more confidence now with the bike actually safer to ride and since I take the GLW riding with me much of the time, this is a good thing.

I can only guess the AFR at present, but from the plug colours, it must be similar to the PCV O2 Optimizer's 13.6 rather then the Bazzaz Eliminators very very rich, plug fouling AFR (possibly sub 12 from how black the plugs were). So still on the lean side for economy down low in the 20-25% throttle/sub 4500ish rpm range. I need all the economy I can get in the cruising section of the map, but above that, the PCV kicks in with a dyno derived map.

[DarkMonster620]

Good to know . . .

[GK]

Good testing Tony! 👍🏻

[koko64]

Further testing today.
Bazzaz eliminators use more fuel but give plenty of response. The Smartmoto eliminators are on the leaner side and very smooth but very economical, but not as snappy response. I would have stuck with the Bazzaz version but after an hour's riding they activated the check engine light. The Smartmoto version did not. I can only speculate why, but the DP ECU was onto the Bazzaz units. Maybe the Bazzaz ZFi unit needs to be installed to trick the ECU, but that's a guess. This has been a consistent pattern when testing them. If anyone can explain what the ECU is picking up I'd appreciate it.

[koko64]

Tonight I will test a theory.
The Smartmoto  eliminators do run lean but really work well and only marginally correct the AFR. They appear to be eliminators first and optimizers second (if at all). The plug colours and performance show a lean but just barely ok AFR. The response is flat, but not dangerously lean but with no horribly lean or closed loop surging. I am differentiating between the surging caused by a dangerously lean AFR and just the self modulating of the ECU in closed loop mode. The light weight and light internals of the Evo 1100 bikes really expose this.
 I have reconnected the Power Commander dual channel Optimizers and connected the Smartmoto eliminators to them. I know the PC Optimizers are set for a 13.6 AFR in the closed loop range and I was happy with their performance except for the ECU's closed loop intrusion on my throttle control.
So the idea is the PC Optimizers modulate the AFR and the Smartmoto devices eliminate the O2 sensors, by joining forces. If my theory is correct the worst thing that could happen is a too rich condition and at best, a reasonable AFR with no closed loop ECU intrusion.
Just testing at idle there is no check engine light. It will be hot today so I will test in the cool of the evening.

[DarkMonster620]

Well, Doctor, we await your diagnosis

[GK]

Dr, Dr give us the news, you got a, bad case of tuning blues....

Sorry, first thing that popped into my head! Lol!

[koko64]

With the set up tested as above the bike ran like shit. So much for my theory..
No check engine light but back firing on part throttle. Whatever signal was being sent to the ECU, it didnt like it. I stopped after 1km, connected the PC Optimizer and switched back to the Smartmoto devices alone. Did about 50 kms through the hills. Ran fine but maybe a bit soft.

Strangely, the AFR is getting richer the more I ride it. What does this mean? The only clue I have is a statement from the Bazzaz blurb for their O2 Eliminators and ZFi unit which says that it may take some time for the AFR to stabilize once the O2 sensors are eliminated. Does this mean the learned parameters of the former closed loop system take time to be overidden?