do these symptoms suggest I need a valve adjustment? Edit: or bent valve?

Started by Rudemouthsky, October 18, 2013, 02:29:01 PM

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memper

BN, you seem like a pretty handy guy. Why didn't you check out this stuff yourself? Time constraints?
"Calling a bikini fairing on a monster a fairing is like calliing a girl in an actual bikini proper work attire....unless shes a stripper." -He Man

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Important: always check your battery filter and regularly change your headlight fluid.

Howie

Plugs dry sooty or wet oily?  Dry sooty is fuel, wet oily is oil from valve guides.  Any measurements? 

brad black

I think you're in that situation lots of people find themselves in, where they don't know enough to call bullshit or to do it themselves, but you're not getting anywhere either.

when we can teleport, this situation will be greatly reduced.  but until then, you're kind of stuck unless you take it back and fix it yourself.
Brad The Bike Boy

http://www.bikeboy.org

koko64

BNs in a tight spot alright.
They've made a number of incorrect assessments on the way to the latest conclusion,. Not confidence inspiring. From Howie's point they missed the plug reading it seems. Maybe the top guy looked at the job in the end?

BN, anyone else within an hour ( or two or three) you could truck the bike to? It might be worth it for peace of mind.
2015 Scrambler 800

Rudemouthsky

Quote from: memper on November 15, 2013, 05:37:57 PM
BN, you seem like a pretty handy guy. Why didn't you check out this stuff yourself? Time constraints?

Thanks but I'm not. I was able to put it back together and it ran. I didn't want to send off the heads to have the seats cut and I didn't want to buy new pistons or rings. I wanted to believe everything was ok before I put it back together. I was lazy, cheap and pretty stupid. I do wish I hadn't brought it in though...because at this point I could have disassembled it again and just installed brand new heads, and not be helpless and wondering if I'm being royally make the beast with two backsed. And it would *still* be cheaper and I'd be way less pissed off.

I brought it in because I thought a proper valve adjustment   would sort it out. I couldn't imagine why the carbs would be picking on only one cylinder. I thought it would be 3 days and $250.

"while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Debs

Rudemouthsky

Quote from: koko64 on November 15, 2013, 08:16:57 PM
BNs in a tight spot alright.
They've made a number of incorrect assessments on the way to the latest conclusion,. Not confidence inspiring. From Howie's point they missed the plug reading it seems. Maybe the top guy looked at the job in the end?

BN, anyone else within an hour ( or two or three) you could truck the bike to? It might be worth it for peace of mind.

Thanks Koko. You posted right when I did. I'm going to sleep, I partook in several glasses of whisky tonight. I might have a better idea of how to approach this tomorrow.
"while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Debs

koko64

#36
Hope the morning brings fresh perspective.
Dont be hard on yourself, you were correct to get the valves checked, its the "baseline" thing to do on a used Ducati. Like Brad said, wish we were closer to come round with tools and beers to help a mate out.
The shop appears to have taken the scenic route to this conclusion and thats not your fault either.
If speeddog, Duckstew or someone else trustworthy is within a few hours, I would put the bike in a pick up, grab some beers and make an appointment for an assessment of the bike. It's worth it for a straight answer. Make a day of it. Drop the bike off early then go out for the day with your lady for example.
I have Brad and three other guys I trust within an hour if I'm stuck on a job, but I understand not everyone has that luxury. I used to live in the country, so I understand the issue of distance.

Be sure of this, the bad running at higher revs is indicative of a lean condition that needs to be resolved and that fouled plug is a seperate issue with a seperate cause, be it oil or fuel fouling, or an intermitant ignition fault. The leakdown test should have been definative on that, but there's alot of water under the bridge on diagnosis that would sap my confidence.

We'll see ya tomorrow.

2015 Scrambler 800

Rudemouthsky

So I'm thinking...I can get my bike back from these people and negotiate a modest sum of $$ lost...

I'm considering packaging just the heads and sending them off to someone to be rebuilt. Which is what I should have done in the first place. What kind of high performance work could I have done on the heads if I want to stick with my OEM pistons? Does something like the MBP treatment require an overbore?

'tanks again ya'll.
"while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Debs

ducpainter

If you do head work you'd see the best gains by at least dropping in a set of high comp pistons.

That will create other considerations such as high octane fuel availability, or possibly an ignitech unit to retard the timing enough to avoid pinging, or both.

Koko and Brad can advise you better.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



Rudemouthsky

Quote from: ducpainter on November 17, 2013, 09:24:27 AM
If you do head work you'd see the best gains by at least dropping in a set of high comp pistons.

That will create other considerations such as high octane fuel availability, or possibly an ignitech unit to retard the timing enough to avoid pinging, or both.

Koko and Brad can advise you better.

I've always wondered, do the std bore high comps literally "drop in"?

Does anyone run high comps with std timing, using only high octane fuel?

The reason I didn't do high comps before was because of all these concerns. I want to stick with what my mechanical skill set allows: following basic instructions and turning wrenches.
"while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Debs

koko64

Cheapest and easiest way out is getting the heads repaired only. You can keep the oem pistons and use cheap fuel. The barrels stay put and a buddy holds them in place when removing the heads.
I think leave it stock or go for the kind of package DP mentioned (and I pmed you about). The compression change raises issues with fuel and ignition, but you get a different bike, very torquey. It will never be a high hp bike with sohc and two valve heads.

If you are low on bucks at present you can keep it simple and keep fuel costs down.
2015 Scrambler 800

koko64

I cant see the pictures for some reason.
As Howie asked, was the plug wet and oily or dry and sooty?
2015 Scrambler 800

ducpainter

Quote from: Buck Naked on November 17, 2013, 12:25:33 PM
Got your PM, cheers Tony.  [beer]

Oh and I found one of my plugs. This is what I was dealing with within a few miles of putting in a new one. Any thoughts?






You can't use a secure http addy to display a pic. It has to be a public addy.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



Rudemouthsky

#43
To be honest I can't tell. :/. But it looks like oil.

Ok, let's try again...







???

"while there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." -Debs

koko64

#44
Im looking on my cell phone.
Brad, Howie, speeddog you near a PC/laptop?

Looks like an oil glaze burnt on around the upper porcelain and wet oil deposits on cooler parts of the plug. The electrodes look oil stained. The mixture may have been lean and hot enough at higher revs/large throttle openings to glaze the oil rather than leave it wet. It just doesnt have that rich, dark, "velvety" texture of too much fuel. Cant see into the plug base for the mixture trace there. The light is different in each photo, one looks richer, one ok and one lean midway down the porcelain. When I use an led flashlight it has that effect.

What do you think?
2015 Scrambler 800