5.5 rear wheel issues on monster 620

[monster_dark]

Hi all!
First of all, I'm spanish so sorry for my english (I hope you can understand me).

I've recently bought a 5.5' monster 1000 rear wheel, to fit into my monster 620.
I have modified some internal pieces to be 5 milimetres shorter (references 22 and 25):



Now, reference marks on both sides of the swingarm are lined up and the sprocket aligned, the chain is correctly tensioned (placing the motorcycle on the side stand), but it "jumps" when I ride the bike, at a particular time, not continuously...
Perhaps the chain is slack, but with the original wheel all was ok...

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

[ungeheuer]

Your English is fine  . 

It's not because of linguistic difficulties that I dont understand...  You have a wider rear wheel, you centered your new wider rear wheel by making the spacers smaller....  Sounds to me like that should work fine.

Yet the chain jumps?  And the chain doesn't appear to be excessively loose??  A sprocket carrier issue maybe 

No mi entiendo at all....

[monster_dark]

You have a wider rear wheel, you centered your new wider rear wheel by making the spacers smaller....  Sounds to me like that should work fine.

Yet the chain jumps?  And the chain doesn't appear to be excessively loose??  A sprocket carrier issue maybe  

I think it should work fine too, and therefore I am so intrigued....

The chain appears to be a little stretched (not loose), and I'm thinking about changing it, but... some days ago, with the original wheel, I didn't notice anything ¿?¿?... and it has been revised a few weeks ago in the official workshop (they didn't told me anything)
I think the driving gear has a little clearance (I'm not sure if it is the driving gear or its axle), but it doesn't seem to be the problem (again, with the original wheel, everything was ok...¿?¿?)

The sprocket carrier is the original one, and I've checked if it is correctly aligned with the driving gear... and it's ok. 

Thank you for your opinions!  

[ungeheuer]

monster_dark,

Darkmonster620 speaks your language perfectly (and mine too - what a smart arse) and is an experienced Ducati mechanic.....  who also owns a 620.

Carlos?

Senor Brewer-Incera to the white courtesy telephone please...

[ducpainter]

What process did you use to shorten the spacers?

[monster_dark]

What process did you use to shorten the spacers?

Indeed, I didn't shorten them, but I ordered two new ones, identical but shorter

[ducpainter]

Indeed, I didn't shorten them, but I ordered two new ones, identical but shorter

Ahhhh...

Sorry, I misunderstood.

My only thought is the new spacers don't hold the sprocket carrier aligned as the wheel rotates.

Is there much side to side play or wiggle in the carrier?

[monster_dark]

Ahhhh...

Sorry, I misunderstood.

My fault, sorry!

My only thought is the new spacers don't hold the sprocket carrier aligned as the wheel rotates.

Is there much side to side play or wiggle in the carrier?

Interesting... I'll check that, thank you!
But... the chain "jump" is not regular at all... may have to do with the resonance frequency of the engine vibrations (there it is not "jump" when turning the wheel manually, even turning it fast), plus a stretched chain or the side to side play you mention... your solution could explain everything went well with the old wheel...

[DarkMonster620]

monster_dark,

do you have a rear stand? If so, please place bike on it and take a picture from behind and post it.

Now, check that the chain is on a straight line, from the rrar sprocket to the front sprockt; put in neutral and turn wheel by hand; make sure wheel IS centered, use a ruler to measure from wheel lip to ssing arm inside edge, both sides should measufe the same, +/-1mm  NO MORE, if not within these specs, center wheel while on stand and then recheck chain tension.

Mas preguntas enviame un pm 

[Speeddog]

Did you get the sprocket carrier with the 5.5" wheel?

They mount the sprocket further outboard so that the chain clears the tire.
This will line up with a front sprocket that's flipped flat side out.

What size tire do you have mounted?

Why did you cut those 2 parts down by 5mm?
The overall width of 4.5" and 5.5" wheel assemblies are the same.

[MonsterHPD]

Did you get the sprocket carrier with the 5.5" wheel?

They mount the sprocket further outboard so that the chain clears the tire.
This will line up with a front sprocket that's flipped flat side out.

What size tire do you have mounted?

Why did you cut those 2 parts down by 5mm?
The overall width of 4.5" and 5.5" wheel assemblies are the same.

We've also put a 5.5" rim on a 620, exactly as per Speeddogs description, workd perfectly. Same spacers, but correct parts necessary. 

[monster_dark]

Did you get the sprocket carrier with the 5.5" wheel?

They mount the sprocket further outboard so that the chain clears the tire.
This will line up with a front sprocket that's flipped flat side out.

What size tire do you have mounted?

Why did you cut those 2 parts down by 5mm?
The overall width of 4.5" and 5.5" wheel assemblies are the same.

No I didn't... 
It is a rim of a Ducati Monster 1000, and I've used the sprocket carrier of the 620... 
I've mounted a 170 tire, and it doesn't touch the chain (but it's not too far, maybe with a 180 I would have problems)

I cut those parts because with the originals the rim didn't fit in the swingarm, it was too wide...

[monster_dark]

I have just found this on the Internet:

The 5.5 wheel is NOT the same hub, its actually about 3/16" wider on the sprocket side, disc side is the same. So using your 4.5 carrier the chain will still be spaced out 3/16 farther away from the tire.

The outer spacer and bushing that goes into the carrier would need to be changed to the 5.5 shorter ones. The outer one was $5 from Ducati bushing can't be much either.

This may be OK with a 170 tire, I think a 180 its going to be close.

If you can find the 5.5 carrier thats better and you will need to flip the contershaft sprocket to keep the chain straight.

but if you can't you still may be able to get away with the 4.5 carrier with 5.5 spacers.

FYI: I just did a swap after reading lots of posts on 4.5 vs 5.5 wheels. the info did not add up, nearly all said the hubs are identical but the spacers/carriers were not? Chris noted they should be since the swingarm is the same.
The carrier on the 5.5 IS different and does offset the sprocket outward more but the carrier/ bearing seat are identical to the 4.5, so the spacers should have been too. But we know thay are not. Just didn't make sense so I did some measuring and found the sprocket side of the HUB is wider on the 5.5 wheel than on the 4.5 by about 3/16". That explains why the spacers are shorter on the 5.5 than the 4.5 (by.. you guessed it about 3/16"). Its not that the carrier is wider, it is only wider at the sprocket mount, not in relation to the axle/ spacer/swingarm. The brake side of the hub is identical offset from centerline, the sprocket side centerline to the edge of the carrier mount surface is longer. In short, the chain is offset away from the wheel both by the taller sprocket mount AND by the Hub. Now it all adds up...ahhh

Does that mean that everything should be ok in my case? Or do I need the sprocket carrier hopelessly?

[Speeddog]

I've just measured two 5.5 wheels, and four 4.5 wheels; the 'hub' part is the same width. 

[monster_dark]

I've just measured two 5.5 wheels, and four 4.5 wheels; the 'hub' part is the same width.  

So that means that with my sprocket carrier, the chain is closer to the wheel but aligned with the contershaft sprocket (as with the 4.5)... I think I'm getting crazy with this...  

That would have sense; I've been taking measures and I think the sprockets are properly aligned..
On the other hand, that wouldn't explain why I had to shorten the spacers!