Oil, lots of oil, in my airbox (Now I know why)

[Speeddog]

See, I told you, it was a piece of piston jammed in the breather valve. 
You needed a bigger motor anyway.

Can the shop provide pictures of the perpetrator(s) for the curious?

[stopintime]

See, I told you, it was a piece of piston jammed in the breather valve. 
You needed a bigger motor anyway.

Can the shop provide pictures of the perpetrator(s) for the curious?

It's not taken apart yet, but I'll make sure to provide pictures when it is.

[ducpainter]

Why didn't anyone tell me that four years ago 

... but seriously, for me it's a billion times more fun going fast with a little Monster than with a SBK.
Priceless education too - engine, tuning, gearing, brakes, suspension, geometry a.s.o.  I've had to learn better cornering skills to deal with the superbikes - my impression is that a lot of superbike riders don't take that seriously - many of them rely on straight line power and struggle with bike control before and during cornering.
Anyway, it's too late now - I've married my Monster and will keep enjoying it.

I didn't know that 4 years ago. I had just recently gotten  mine.

I understand what you're saying about riding a lesser bike fast.

That's what will allow you to ride a superior bike faster than the guys that rely on their right wrist rather than the capabilities of the entire package.

I still love my Monster and will have it forever, but the SBK is definitely more fun on the track...for me anyway.

[koko64]

All true DP.

I like having a street bike set up for public roads and a track bike set up purely to get around the circuit as fast as possible with no compromises for either.

I used to track day my retired VFR400 racer. I would pass the guys on bigger bikes in the technical sections, but they would pass me on the straights and I would have to do it all again each lap. I was worried some squid on a Hayabusa would T-bone me at the end of a straight. With the Gixxer, I can pass them and never see them again.

[koko64]

Hey Lars, any news?

[stopintime]

 

Just a crack in one piston - as far as we were able to find out today.
Cylinder ok, rod ok, head & valves ok.

The color under the piston might be from the burning gas coming through the crack?

[koko64]

So what's your plan, how far will you go?

[stopintime]

So what's your plan, how far will you go?

I wish I was able to answer that with common sense, but hell no - all the way baby 



Wait! Recycling aluminum counts as sensible?

[Speeddog]

 

Just a crack in one piston - as far as we were able to find out today.
Cylinder ok, rod ok, head & valves ok.

The color under the piston might be from the burning gas coming through the crack?

~~~SNIP~~~

That piston was too hot for quite a while IMO, that's what the color is from.

I'm curious what the bottom of the other piston looks like.

What were the mods on this motor?

[stopintime]

That piston was too hot for quite a while IMO, that's what the color is from.

I'm curious what the bottom of the other piston looks like.

What were the mods on this motor?

Mods? A few, and then some 

I'll have the horisontal piston to compare with in a few weeks.

If you're right, this might be a good example why tuned/high output air cooled bikes has or should have an oil jet under at least the vertical cylinder.

Don't know if it's relevant, but in the meantime maybe these pictures will tickle your brain...

[Speeddog]

More red RTV than I'd like to see, and that O-ring is not good at all.

Rods look very nice, Carillo or Pankl?

[stopintime]

More red RTV than I'd like to see, and that O-ring is not good at all.

Rods look very nice, Carillo or Pankl?

Carillo.

I question the relevance of the piston color because of the burn mark on top of the rod. I've never seen anything engine internal worth mentioning, so it's not based on anything, just thoughts.

The O-ring and the red stuff was crowding that hole pretty well - significant?

[Speeddog]

Carillo.

I question the relevance of the piston color because of the burn mark on top of the rod. I've never seen anything engine internal worth mentioning, so it's not based on anything, just thoughts.

The O-ring and the red stuff was crowding that hole pretty well - significant?

~~~SNIP~~~

IMO, burn mark on the rod was from the short time it ran with the piston cracked all the way through.
Crack was due to loss of material strength from piston overheating.

*Why* it overheated is the big question.

That O-ring seals the oil gallery going up to the head.
It's pressurised, so I'm a bit puzzled why the O-ring went pear-shaped.
It is the *only* oil delivery to the head (unless an external line was added....).
If that gets plugged, the rocker arms and cam will die in short order.
Have they been looked at?

[stopintime]

They will be looked at later when we do further work - thanks for the heads up 

There was work done in a failed attempt to stop a small oil leak from around where the damaged O-ring is. Something is wrong around there.

The map was altered last year to reduce the temptation to redline-rev it 'all' the time and to make it a little less throttle responsive at low revs. The idea was to reduce internal stress from explosive throttle response (it was amazing) and to motivate me to change gear sooner. I don't know if the engine builder did that because he saw how hot the pistons were running and I don't know how they looked then (13,000km ago)
Pistons are 53,000km old and have seen their fair share of action.

I'll show him the pictures and ask for an evaluation and how they looked last time he saw them. He's going to have to answer about the O-ring too.

All this is pure speculation at this point - I'll have to dig a little.

[Speeddog]

What vintage are those crankcases and cylinders?

I think the combination of O-ring and base gasket there isn't standard.

I can see the oil squirter hole, perhaps it's plugged with debris?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, had a bit of a think about the O-ring, and looked at cases and parts catalogues on how it's done.

Old-school setup, AFAIK model year '00 and earlier:
AFAIK, the O-ring is used with a base gasket that has a large hole, such that the o-ring mates with the cases on one side, the cylinder barrel on the other, and is restrained radially by a shallow counterbore in the cylinder and the base gasket.
In my experience, this works fine.

New-school setup, '01 -'06
Some wanker at Ducati figured out that they could save a dollar by not using an O-ring, and thus depend on the gasket sealer compound to keep it oil-tight.
Like many things new-school, it was a profoundly bad idea, as a significant percentage of them leaked.

another new idea, '07 'til '12
As penance for the failed previous idea, they decided that perhaps a small bushing at the interface might be an improvement.
It seems to work, as I don't recall seeing that era of bikes with a base gasket leak.
Skeptics may point out that this now is an inferior setup, as there's more machining, a steel bushing likely costing more than an o-ring, *and* a loose part that can fall in the motor during assembly, and possibly cause serious mayhem if not witnessed and retrieved.

Perhaps *this* will do it.... '13 onward
Not being satisfied with leaving something that works as is, they've now added an o-ring around the bushing.
Even more costly than before.

Pretty sure that Brad Black or others who have been around Ducs longer than I can verify the crossovers.

In summary, this is a rather distressing issue.
Sealing of ~100psi hot oil in a gallery across a relatively stout bolted joint is not a new thing.
I'm pretty sure several suitable methods were sorted out in the latter third of last century.