2003 M620ie - NO START - Wont turn over. No spark. No neutral. RESOLVED

[Mr.Maim]

Ducati 2003 Monster 620ie Dark - 72 miles (same bike in this thread: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=66014.0)

So, in the interim I've gotten the tank cleaned out. Replaced all the brake/clutch fluids and bled everything, changed oil and filter, new fuel filter and 2nd see-through filters installed, new NGK plugs, new Yuasa battery, and lo and behold it will not start.

Symptoms:

1- Turn key and fuel pump engages, system self-check appears successful all lights light and go out guages go from rest to full and back again
2- See-through fuel filter is full
3- CANNOT GET ELECTRONIC NEUTRAL. I cannot get the neutral light to light other than during ignition, though I can get mechanical neutral. Rear wheel spins, bike on track stand.
4- Immobilizer light blinks every 2 seconds with no key in ignition for 24 hours after last use (attempt to start in this case)
5- With black key 1: Immobilizer light comes on solid for 2 seconds, goes out, comes on solid for 1 seconds, goes out, then comes on solid and stays on.
6- With black key 2: Immobilizer light comes on solid for 2 seconds, goes out, comes on solid for 1 seconds, goes out, then comes on solid and stays on.
7- With black key: Immobilizer light comes on solid for 2 seconds, goes out, blinks quickly 3 times, goes out, then comes on solid and stays on.
8- Pressing the start button does nothing. Red safety switch in ON position.
9- Bypassing the starter solenoid from Battey + to starter engages the starter, engine turns over. Tried several times for 15 seconds a try.
10 - There is no fuel getting to the cylinders when I jump past the starter solenoid. Spark plugs are dry even when trying to flood it.
11- Replaced the starter solenoid. NO CHANGE.
12- Removing a spark plug, connecting plug wire and jumping the starter produces no spark as the engine turns over. Grounding plug to block produces no spark.
13- Kickstand is up.
14- All fuses have been removed and inspected. All good, no corrosion on terminals.
15- Battery new. Terminals spotless.
16- Checked all electrical connections, unplugged and re-plugged where possible.
17- No frayed, loose, or damaged wires/connectors.
18- 72 miles on bike, stored indoors most of its life and under a carport under a heavy motorcycle anti-UV locked cover for a short spell, never sat in the sun so no UV damage, low Phoenix AZ humidity so no rust or corrosion (with the inexplicable exception of the inside of the gas tank), never dumped, fell off sidestand onto left side once: broke choke lever-replaced.
19- I'm more than mechanically and electrically inclined. I've owned several bikes and worked on them all and know my way around a multimeter.

My first thought is the Ducati Immobilizer system but I want a second opinion because the documentation I've read is unclear.

I'm suspicious of the neutral light not engaging.

See startup sequence videos below.

Black Key #1


Black Key #2 (same, just verifying the RFID chip in both keys)


Red Master Key (diagnostic shows 3 keys programmed, this is correct)



Any ideas? I'm totally stuck.  

[brad black]

if the immo light stays on it is immobilised.

from the manual:

the LED flashes once to indicate that
the serial connection is missing (this
will be the direct connection - through
the main wiring - between engine
control unit (7) and immobilizer
control unit in the instrument panel

[Mr.Maim]

if the immo light stays on it is immobilised.

from the manual:

the LED flashes once to indicate that
the serial connection is missing (this
will be the direct connection - through
the main wiring - between engine
control unit (7) and immobilizer
control unit in the instrument panel

Okay. So now what?

(though the portion that you copied and pasted does not mention the light being on solid or the system being immobilized...)

[Speeddog]

Given all that, I'd cycle the connection on the instrument cluster a couple times, then try starting.

If that doesn't do it, cycle the connections on the ECU.

Did the bike always run on demand?
72 miles on a bike that old sounds like it had this issue originally and the PO got frustrated....

[Mr.Maim]

Given all that, I'd cycle the connection on the instrument cluster a couple times, then try starting.

If that doesn't do it, cycle the connections on the ECU.

Did the bike always run on demand?
72 miles on a bike that old sounds like it had this issue originally and the PO got frustrated....

Original owner is my GF who owned it before we met. She's too short for it. Bought the bike rode a few times, never got comfortable. It worked last time it worked (2003).

I'll try the connections on both the cluster and the ECU if I can figure out where they are.

I just attempted the Immobilizer Reset in the Owner's manual. No dice. You're supposed to turn it ON, then WOT and the EOBD light (#7 in the manual page below) should go out after 8 seconds. After reading the manual closely I realize that the EOBD light for troubleshooting is not the blinking light at the bottom of the cluster (that's the "Orange Light" aptly named by the manual), rather the lowest light at the top of the cluster. Apparently this light is supposed to be on solidly when the Immobilizer is active, looking at my videos above you can see that it is not lit. The LED (#6) is lit but does not indicate Immobilization.

Confused.

[Speeddog]

Sorry, hadn't read the other thread.

Did the instrument cluster get exposed to a direct water blast when you cleaned it?

Connection to the cluster is on the lower forward surface, in the middle.
There's a small tab that needs to be depressed, then gentle wiggle/pull and the connector will come out.

ECU is under the tank, next to the battery.
Two wire bundles connect via two large connectors on the top.
Depress tab, and swing the 'bail', it will 90% disconnect with the tabs/channels on the connector.
Don't get aggro with it, there's lots of small pins.

While doing that, inspect the wires adjacent to the connectors for damage, especially rodent attack, as that's a favorite.
A well covered moto outdoors is a 4-star rodent hotel.

[Mr.Maim]

THANK YOU Speeddog! I just did the above (Immobilizer reset attempt) during my lunch. I'll check these connections after my workday.

Again, thank you for the detailed location info. Not my bike, just trying to get her running!

I'll report back here.

[Mr.Maim]

Sorry, hadn't read the other thread.

Did the instrument cluster get exposed to a direct water blast when you cleaned it?

Connection to the cluster is on the lower forward surface, in the middle.
There's a small tab that needs to be depressed, then gentle wiggle/pull and the connector will come out.

ECU is under the tank, next to the battery.
Two wire bundles connect via two large connectors on the top.
Depress tab, and swing the 'bail', it will 90% disconnect with the tabs/channels on the connector.
Don't get aggro with it, there's lots of small pins.

While doing that, inspect the wires adjacent to the connectors for damage, especially rodent attack, as that's a favorite.
A well covered moto outdoors is a 4-star rodent hotel.

1,000 THANKS TO SPEEDDOG! The instrument cluster connector was not fully connected, it came right out with a very light tug on the cable. I also checked the connectors to the ECU and the Immobilizer antenna around the keyway for good measure. All those connections were good but got unplugged and re-connected regardless.

Bike starts. Neutral light works. All three keys work.



The cell phone video doesn't do the bike justice. Yes, crap all around the bike... it's been sitting for a long time.

Guess it's time for a wash and to get going on that break-in procedure huh?

Thanks again Speeddog!   I thought I had a fried ECU. I can't say enough about how stoked I am! I have been dealing with this bike not running for a long time and always thought it was fried and would end up being sold as a junker... with 72 miles and no warranty.

[Mr.Maim]

To Do List:

Top off oil (changed oil and filter last week)
Remove LH exhaust and thoroughly clean chain, lubricate with Dupont Chain Lube.
Check for proper chain tension
Reinstall LH exhaust
Reinstall rear tire fender
Wash bike
Fill up with Premium unleaded
Get some mirrors installed
Slap on license plates, check insurance coverage, get GF into a rider's class!   

[Speeddog]

Glad you got it sorted!

Take it easy on the wash, especially do not directly hose the electricals.
The instrument cluster is not particularly waterproof.

Now...
How old are the tires?

[Mr.Maim]

Understood! After all the reading I've done to try and resolve this issue I have seen several posts about people flooding the instrument cluster so I'll be careful. I'm going to blow everything off with compressed air first then wipe everything down with damp rags. Really not much on the bike to wash... not like a full fairing bike.

The tires are the OEM Pirelli Dragon EVOs that came on the bike. Still have the mold "hairs" on the center tread. No dry rot, no cracking, they appear to be good. Need to get them scrubbed up with a little riding.

The benefits of a low humidity, climate controlled storage for nearly its whole life.

[J5]

The tires are the OEM Pirelli Dragon EVOs that came on the bike. Still have the mold "hairs" on the center tread. No dry rot, no cracking, they appear to be good. Need to get them scrubbed up with a little riding.

The benefits of a low humidity, climate controlled storage for nearly its whole life.

old tyres suck , and dont have decent leveles of grip

they will be ok for a bit of a ride around but if it rains they will be like riding on ice speaking from experience

[Howie]

Since those tires are over 10 years old they need to be replaced.  Age counts.

[Mr.Maim]

Now...
How old are the tires?

old tyres suck , and dont have decent leveles of grip

they will be ok for a bit of a ride around but if it rains they will be like riding on ice speaking from experience

Since those tires are over 10 years old they need to be replaced.  Age counts.

So what I think you guys are trying to say is that I should probably replace the tires? 

KIDDING. Okay, I get it, will look into that tomorrow. Good brand for a bike that'll probably never see a wet road, but wear well?

[Ddan]

+1 on the tires, Michelin Road 2 is a good choice, but you'll get all sorts of opinions.  For the most part, anything you get will be way better than what you've got.

You also don't need or want premium fuel, the bike will be happier with 87 octane