Bike shop idea. Thoughts?

[1.21GW]

Word of caution: make sure there is a market for this.  I've known of plenty of enterprising people who started a business because they noticed a lack of some service/product, but after they invested a lot of time/$ and got to market, they realized people weren't as interested in practice as they were in theory.

I only say this because I know some people here in our wonderful city here that would like to work on their bikes or learn more maintenance but when given the actual chance do not.  It's a lot like everyone I know that says they really want to learn spanish/chinese/some other language, but in spite of the bazillion affordable resources online and in their neighborhoods, they never do.

My suggestions would be to pursue the option you mentioned about teaming up with that first guy.  If not possible, maybe just arrange for workshops in a rental space from time to time.  Then, if they prove popular and constantly fill up, maybe you make the move to a full time location with all the fixings you described.  A cheap way to test the waters with low investment and risk.

Finally, there are a lot of resources in the city here that I would encourage you to check out.  Rider's Alley (w/ two garages in Manhattan, run by a guy named Damien) has workshops from time to time.  The man running them (Armen) had been doing so for 30 years.  He no longer does the longer workshops last time I chatted with him and is only doing 1-day or less classes.  It would be interesting to know if this change is because people just weren't coming or because he is getting old and wanted to pull back.  That is directly relevant to you: if the former reason then it is a demand problem that may adversely affect your plan; if the latter reason then it is a supply problem that supports your plan.  In any case, I would talk to others that have tried similar stuff to see what has worked and what hasn't.

All this caution aside, I like the idea for purely selfish reasons---I have an old honda I was restoring that I never get to work on since I don't have the space.  So I'll be your first client if you ever get this up and running.  Anyway, forgive the long reply.  Just my $0.02, often worth less.


...Oh, and if you want to bounce ideas off of someone over a beer, PM me and I'll be glad to meet up and act as a sounding wall.

[thorn14]

Motoshop and Piston & Chain are two examples in SF.

[DarkMonster620]

Sorry no mean to threadjack but, thorn14, I think your email might have been hacked . ..  been receiving nasty stuff from your email !!!

Now, back to scheduled programming

[ducati culture]

Good Idea.... 
I have been to one of the shops in NYC for storage for a night.  Charged 20-25 bucks I think.
I concor with most postings.  Do a survey's as well as a a sit in forum to bounce ideas.   Good luck . dc   

[xcaptainxbloodx]

we had one in portland. everyone was stoked on the idea, the guy invested a ton to get it off the ground and in the end all the people that liked the idea had not interest in actually plunking down the cash to do it.


I myself am the shop foreman at what is essentially a motorcycle co-op.   we have ~2300sqft divided amongst 14 people (we have room for more).  is not a business, so I can keep the cost low, which may be the only reason its working.

the way we do it, you rent a space much the same you would rent a room in a house (master bedroom is more than the basement)  the cost is about 1$ a sqft.  you are responsible for all your tools/benches/lifts, you are not allowed to store anything outside of your spot.  however, when you are working, you are free to move stuff around, push bikes into pathways, outside etc.  the shop is also pretty tight knit. so things like lifts, air compressors, fab tools, mills, lathes, media blaster etc are generally free to borrow as long as they go back where they were and you ask permission. we also have 3 phase,220 and sprinklers.

we also have a running shop fee that is divided evenly among everybody (for us, its $400/number of people with keys) this covers rent for the space we cant use (pathways, ramps, etc) and buys consumables like soap and trash bags.


we've been rolling since august and its been great. everyone does their bit and weve actually been able to save up some cash towards a bigger compressor and security cameras.    The best thing is that we have been able to be pretty exclusive with who is in the space. they are all friends, or friends of friends.  we have bbqs, bullshit, kick around ideas, share skills.  its really nice to go to the shop and have friends around while you wrench, I feel like thats the biggest benefit of the place.

feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[memper]

1.21- I am doing some market research and its hard finding good info. I suppose it would take talking to lots of riders and doing this here on other forums. I do know there is a sh**ton of riders in nyc. Hard to believe seeing how cold it gets here some winters.
The thing about learning about wrenching on bikes is that since the first motorized bicycle, its been, in a word, "cool". Learning spanish or chinese has never been really cool. Useful, sure.
I do think there is great potential for this in NYC. The folks who are "attempting" it here are not really launching it forward because there is a lot of laziness with shops in this city. I have been to many throughout Brooklyn and Manhattan. Lots of lazy. Do or do not, there is no try. Right?
I emailed a bit with Armen. Cool guy. Wish I took his super long class when it was around. I'm gonna take his current shorter one next month and also use it as a means to chat with him about my idea. He's been in the game for a long time and would probably have great insight.
He told me the reason for dropping the multi-day classes: wasted information. Basically he was taking buckets of info and cutting up something like 40 hours into a few days. People were getting filled with info that 95% of which would go unused. He was putting in too much energy for what he felt his customers really needed (wanted?). Another issue is just how it was offered. Too much data all at once. My à la carte class and workshop platform is much better. Why sit through hours and hours of other stuff when you really just want to know about how to best set up your suspension?
1.21, I might take you up on that beer offer. 

xcaptainxbloodx- Is the shop you describe the "Ratchets Away" studio? If so, I read the whole site. I know a bit about Portland, its culture and its people. Having a format like mine out there would surely tank. The way the Ratchets studio is doing it is exactly "Portland". I think the guy who started the DIY shop that failed just was trying to build a brand in a town that was inappropriate for its culture.

Thanks so much for the feedback folks. Its been extremely valuable. 

[Grampa]

As a side note... Read the E myth revisited.

[memper]

As a side note... Read the E myth revisited.

I will check it out. Thanks!

[Grampa]

Lots of people think all they need is an awesome idea and passion for what they do, and forget about all the different hats a small business owner has to wear during the day to day operations. The book touches on that aspect of running a business.

When I've managed other peoples operations, I've had my employees read it. I've found it helps then buy into the concept that they are active participants in the success of the business, not just pawns left to do the owners bidding.

[Cloner]

In NYC, you should offer monthly parking/storage and set up facilities to "stack" bikes or otherwise warehouse them in an efficient manner.  With parking slots for a bike running upwards of $200/month the area (according to a story I listened to yesterday on "The Pace Motorcycle Podcast") you could probably make the thing live just doing that!

[memper]

In NYC, you should offer monthly parking/storage and set up facilities to "stack" bikes or otherwise warehouse them in an efficient manner.  With parking slots for a bike running upwards of $200/month the area (according to a story I listened to yesterday on "The Pace Motorcycle Podcast") you could probably make the thing live just doing that!

What episode?

[1.21GW]

In NYC, you should offer monthly parking/storage and set up facilities to "stack" bikes or otherwise warehouse them in an efficient manner.  With parking slots for a bike running upwards of $200/month the area (according to a story I listened to yesterday on "The Pace Motorcycle Podcast") you could probably make the thing live just doing that!

And in Manhattan they are $225 as of last summer, and at least I know of has a wait list to get in.  Wouldn't shock me if they hit $250 in a year or so.  Wouldn't be surprised if brooklyn garages starting upping prices too, at least the ones in prime locations.

Even winter storage is rising.  Used to be $80/month at some garages but now like $100/month.  So clearly these is something pushing up prices...

[dbran1949]

 So clearly there is something pushing up prices...

hmmm, could it be.....
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Demand?  

[1.21GW]

Yeah, but could also rising costs, causing garages to raise prices out of need.  Specifically, RE prices: in this city they continue to climb at head-scratching rates.

[hbliam]

I think this would be a very tough business.

It's a small percentage of riders that want to work on their own bikes. Some may think it's a cool idea like learning to play the guitar but few are willing to invest the time to learn to do it properly. I'd guess that of guys that work on their own bikes most are engineer types that don't think anyone could do as good a job as they could and a bunch are guys that can't afford to pay anyone to work on their bikes. Neither group is the type that will sustain a stand alone business.

The liability seems huge. Some guy comes in and works on his own brakes or throttle, your tech gives him some advice, the guy leaves and ends up a quad because his brakes didn't work correctly. That's the end of your business and likely your house.

I think the idea already posted of renting space from the existing guy and growing bit by bit over time is much better then dropping 150K and hoping for the masses to come.

My dealer comes to my house in a Sprinter and picks up my bike for free. Takes it back, does the work, and returns it in the Sprinter for free. How could it get any better?