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Author Topic: PCV/PCIII with designated Mapping for Velocity Stack/Pod Kits  (Read 3301 times)
koko64
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« on: March 19, 2015, 01:40:47 PM »

An Australian company are providing Power Commanders with dyno derived maps as part of their intake kits. They are back in business selling WASP kits. They have in house dyno facilities and sell a complete kit for your M1100/1000/796, HM1100/Evo/796 & SC. This makes the kit expensive, but complete as you get the tune provided.

I always put our sponsors first and in fact have the Corse Dynamics kit on order from MotoWheels, but wanted to share this as many (including myself) thought WASP had gone out of business. The business has been rebranded as Intake Express and is still in Western Australia. The beauty of their kits is in the dyno derived mapping that comes with it so you are well in the ballpark to start with.
After discussion with Brad, I have asked them if they will sell me a map or mapped PCV at least. I was hoping that they could at least sell a map that Brad could flash to my ECU.
I'll let you know their response.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 02:13:37 PM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2015, 05:41:34 PM »

Since I don't have their WASP kit, but that of the opposition, I wasn't expecting much which is fair enough. However, they were very helpful with advice and are still in business, so I have an idea of how to go forward. We had a good discussion. If I struggle to tune this set up I will buy a PCV off these guys which is fair since they did the dyno work for their kit.
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 04:15:49 PM »

They sold me a premapped PCV for their WASP kit.
Will let you know how it goes.
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2015, 05:04:49 PM »

The bike now has the Motowheels Corse Dynamics Intake kit fitted. Do I miss a hinged tank!

 The velocity stacks are a work of art. To call the K&N filters pods, did not seem an adequate description; they remind me more of the two small airboxes behind each carburettor on a Suzuki VX800 cruiser. Aside from the performance benefits, servicing has suddenly become so much easier. I also fitted the K&N Outerware covers.
The bracket for the idle and crankcase breather was a nice touch. I did not use the front coil bracket, it was well below the standard of the rest of the kit. I will contact CD directly and leave MW out of it. No need for a partial refund as the brackets don't look worth it. I will use them for something else. I was thinking of shrouding the front of the pods anyway and decided to do this when the brackets wouldn't work. (I have contacted Corse Dynamics about this with feedback, including how good the rest of their kit and other products are). I used a cut down front section of a spare beat up oem airbox instead. Now I have a moulded plastic front coil bracket. This also shields the pods from turbulent air, in conjunction with the front tank covers. Someone should make a nice carbon shroud for the pods, doubling as a coil bracket, hint, hint. It's a performance kit and this is a good addition to protect the pods from crosswinds, etc.

I fitted a PCV with WASP mapping by Intake Express and been test riding. I have the Bazzaz system in reserve. Bazzaz appears brilliant but a whole extra loom and with very little in the way of mapping options for a baseline. The PCv was a piece of cake to install, with less exposed wires on a naked bike (and I go on dirt roads quite regularly). In the end, sometimes you gotta' go with what is most available, more commonly tunable by the average dyno shop, and has the most R&D by the riding community, even if more sophisticated options are better on paper.

Boy do these motors have some potential! Smooth and powerful with torque everywhere. I believe the 100+hp claims made by WASP, TPO and Corse Dynamics. Intake Express show HM1100Evo dyno charts with 100sae/102std hp and 80 ft/lbs on DJ dynos with the intake kit, PCV with dedicated mapping and stock exhaust system. My bike has the DP 2 into 1 full system. Will let you know what the dyno says...

I am currently testing different optimizers and may have to reflash to sort the closed loop mapping. Will update when I have some meaningful data.

Thanks to Darkmonster620, Speeddog, Ungeheuer, Brad Black, Howie and Todd from Intake Express for their advice and thoughts. Motowheels did a lot of chasing around sorting my order due to a shortage of Outerware covers. Thanks for chasing that up for me fellas.

I am an airbox believer, but this was easy for servicing and cheaper than the EVR airbox.

Cheers.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 01:54:57 AM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2015, 01:55:57 AM »

Pics or it didn't happen! cheeky

Or I could just drag my lazy arse over on the weekend  chug

Good to hear you're enjoying it!
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2015, 02:17:44 AM »

All I can say is wow. You want MS4/S4R power with more torque, less weight, less complexity, cheaper servicing and no plumbing? Get an Evo and do a few mods. I don't think I'll bother with my airbox mod now. I'll keep my stock airbox aside. I can get to everything for servicing so much easier now.
That airbox set up is definitely an area of restriction. It's a reasonable enough volume but its the intake and air filter layout that must be the issue. I'm even more convinced after reading Brad's sport classic write up on bikeboy.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 11:43:35 PM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2015, 04:14:28 PM »

Mark I optimizers from a M1100DS actually worked on my HM1100Evo. Spark plugs don't lie (well usually, unless you a introduce a fuel additive). If what is supposed to happen AFR wise occurred, then it went from 14.7:1 to 13.6:1 with the older individual in line units, or something like that, since I only tested by plug chop. The fact the motor pulled a lot harder down low and ran much smoother was also obvious.

Another member has reported that the Mark II optimizers from a 1100DS worked on an M1100Evo. These are the ones that use a PCFC box as the hardware with two in line connectors originating from one line out of the single control unit. I'll let you know if they work and if they are indeed adjustable.

I removed the Mark I (borrowed) optimizers (thanks Ung) and went back to the lean closed loop operation to feel the difference when the open loop/PCV map kicks in. You can feel it alright. Grin  I now have an economy map down low and a power map from 4000rpm and 20%+ish throttle (or whatever it is). I need the economy map with 12.5 litres of fuel Tongue. A CCW tank does not let you use the Corse Dynamics, TPO or WASP kits with their large diameter velocity stacks and giant pods.

The Optimizers did not eliminate the popping at low throttle openings, but did remove the surging and gave wonderful throttle response. The popping was reduced in that it was no longer gunfire like backfiring, just popping. Smooth and willing, and no more ragged low rpm operation. Wow, you can feel the extra 200cc over my high comp M900. The fact that the bike has a large bore 2 into 1 DP system (up to 54mm) must contribute to the popping despite what map you run.

The Bazzaz optimizers (really O2 eliminators) were the only device to stop the popping almost completely, but at the expense of very poor fuel economy and fouled plugs. They drowned the problem away. If you run them, you need to remove up to 20% fuel down low according to the instructions and the Bazzaz ZFi tuning unit lets you tune everywhere, so you can actually do this. As Ung explained, the PCV Optimizers tell little white lies while the Bazzaz Eliminators tell big fat lies to the ECU. laughingdp A sophisticated, advance tuning unit for sure that lets you map right over the closed loop section (for sale BTW) Grin.

What I'm hoping to do is tune the Mark II PCV Optimizers to around 14:1 or a smidge less for economy, but a little less ragged low rpm operation. That's if it works on my bike and will let me adjust it with the little screws that allow up to 10% extra fuel. There are 10 positions on each adjuster screw, but I don't know if that necessarily corresponds to 1% increments.


If it doesn't work then I may leave it as is with the power a bit weak down low, but giving me 180 km before the fuel light comes on. I always have the option of Mark I optimizers. It does have the DP Racing ECU so it cant be too dangerous in the low load closed loop map ay?




« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 04:17:13 PM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 03:17:38 AM »

Raux can tell you how Mark I optimizers can actually be adjusted to deliver different little white lies.

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koko64
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« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2015, 03:25:00 AM »

Cool. He must understand electrickery.

When I test the adjustable unit on it's way, I'll send your's home. Before I modify the Mark II (it don't think it will reach both cylinders on a HM), I need to test with a Mark I on one cylinder and half the mark II on the other and see if it throws a code/engine light. If it works I'll extend one of the Mark IIs connectors (probably the one to the front cylinder). Maybe I can locate the control box to a place that lets it reach both cylinders, but I doubt it.

It looks like a simplified variation of the PCFC used for cruisers.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2015, 04:54:37 AM by koko64 » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2015, 02:50:57 AM »

Was very busy and lost this one.  Havent dynoed the bike as yet.
I ended up using the dual channel Mark II optimizer by extending the wires to the front cylinder. With a PCV pre-mapped by Intake Express and the Course Dynamics Intake kit, the bike is quite vivid in performance. The Optimizers give good cruising economy without being too lean while the PCV takes over in the open loop range.
Cruising around with the pillion in a million gives a fuel range in the 130-140 mile range. Interestingly, Shell premium 98 (a fuel I have previously avoided), is giving the best economy while BP 98 is much smoother.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 03:43:30 AM by koko64 » Logged

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