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Anyone in the US with experience modifying Adjustable Showas?

Started by baz, March 20, 2015, 07:47:45 PM

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baz

March 20, 2015, 07:47:45 PM
After researching for the last week or so, I think I'd like to try and attempt (or have a shop attempt) HPDMonster's 'showa blues' mod using the shim stack from Ktech.  It is time for me to change my fork oil for the upcoming riding season and I'd rather give the forks a meaningful upgrade while they are cracked open.  I'm planning on 2 track days with my monster this year and it would be nice to have forks that are fully adjustable.  

Reasons why I feel like showa blues mod is the way to go:
- I already have showa 50/54mm adjustable forks on my 01 900s
- Ohlins $1500+ fork replacement: too much money
- SBK swap: tempting, but I don't want to run clip-ons over my suburban machinery bars.  Also, once you factor in prices and additional costs (for example my CNCracing headlight mounts are 54mm, SBK forks i'd need new headlight mounts) I am calculating time+money to be close to $800-$1000.
- Monster 1000s, s4, s4r fork swap: Still would need to be tinkered with for 'optimal setup'.

So... two questions for the DMF:

1) Can anyone in the US recommend a shop that has done a mod like this before, if i provided them with the ktech shim kit HPDMonster recommended?.  Think a shop would do this for a little more than the standard price of a shim kit? ($500-$600). There is a good suspension shop close to me (michigan) that does a lot of sportbike fork work but i'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to touch a project like 'showa blues', with little instructions etc.  I also did contact Eric at clubhousemotorsports, he was super helpful and extremely informative - after talking with him SBK forks seemed like the path to go, however i would rather just attempt showa blues which didn't seem like something he would do.

2) has anyone in the US on this forum done this mod?

Thanks for any comments/feedback.

PS - I'm planning on also respringing my stock Sachs rear fork to my weight (195 w/gear)

ducpainter

#1
March 21, 2015, 05:33:19 AM
Eric did my Showa non adjustable forks, but he typically uses Race-tech parts, and has years of experience doing them that way. His suspension notebook is quite the piece of work. The difference with Eric is he builds his own stacks based on the type of riding and the road conditions the customer will typically see. You need to be honest about your weight in gear.

Once he was done with them there was no need for any adjustability.

I'd let him do his magic on your adjustable Showas. You won't believe the difference.

I can understand his reluctance to try an unknown, or any shops', when they have a tried and true method.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


stopintime

#2
March 21, 2015, 05:44:26 AM
^ Please, if reasonably close to your budget, let an expert with relevant experience do it  [thumbsup]  Getting a solution that you know is spot on, from day one, is (almost) priceless.
252,000 km/seventeen years - loving it

herm

#3
March 21, 2015, 06:30:04 AM
Another plug for Eric at Clubhouse Motorsports. The before and after with the stock "adjustable" showas on my s2r1000 is amazing.
If you drive the nicest car in the neighborhood, work in a cash business, and don't pay taxes, you're either a preacher or a drug dealer...

baz

#4
March 21, 2015, 09:43:12 AM
Thanks for the input everyone.  I definitely understand the value of having someone experienced with monster setups do the suspension refresh/valving.

I guess my primary concern is that I'm performing modifications to an already 'suspect' design, but that is probably just my critical mind being too critica...  I definitely don't want to perform a SBK swap so having my forks revalved/resprung with the existing layout is really the only other logical option (if showa blues is too much work for little gain).  It's just too bad 'adjustable' shows aren't 100% adjustable. 

Thanks for the advice  [thumbsup]

jerryz

#5
March 21, 2015, 12:52:28 PM
Baz its not worth wasting your time and money on those forks as the rebound circuit is  one way only and the needles are ineffective the forks are rubbish  ... i chucked mine away and went for 996 sbk showas that were revalved and resprung ,,,  almost as good now as ohlins .

MotoPsycho

#6
March 21, 2015, 04:35:06 PM
What about those compared to te stock marzocci ones? I found some that are a direct replacement. More adjustable that the spring in a stick I have now. Can't get much worse.
Edgar: '99 M750 - 2009 Indy Ducati Rat Bike Award Winner

ducpainter

#7
March 22, 2015, 04:31:36 AM
The Showas have parts available.

As supplied they're not great.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


baz

#8
March 22, 2015, 12:32:42 PM
I just realized my bike currently has the forks a good 12 mm higher in the top triple than where they are supposed to be (measuring from the fork top to the lower triple bottom)... PO must have lowered the front?...

Going to call Eric back tomorrow, try and find some used 748 forks, and then see if i can get those forks to fit with my current suburban machinery bars.  It will be a tight fit but i think it will work... SBK forks really seem like the best long-term route.  I figure I'll get the used forks looked over (and resprung?) before installation.

MonsterHPD

#9
March 22, 2015, 01:26:38 PM
Well, I suppose I'm a little biased on this topic, and I'm not saying that my solution is the only solution, and there's no money in it for me.
However, if you do go the "Showa Blues" path, the 50/54 adjustables will functionally be the same as a set of SBK forks, no better, no worse.

The K-Tech compression and rebound pistons are a bit track-biased, but they still work great on public roads as well, compared to the stock set-up. If you contact K-tech they might sell you the rebound piston holders/needles/springs/nuts and you could use RaceTech Gold Valves on the compression, and the stock rebound pistons with shimming to suit your riding. As far as I know, there's no-one except K-Tech doing these rebound piston holders.

Someone may be able to get the stock set-up to work better without modifying them as per SB, but the basic design is still flawed and, in my humble view, not worth spending money and effort on.

I think you could talk to Cogent Dynamics (http://www.motocd.com/mc/); I think I read a comment from them on the 50/54's that coincides exactly with my view. They might be able to help you.       
Monster 900-2002 (sold, alive and well in the UK), 749R / 1100 HYM combo for track days, wifes / my Monster Dark 800-2003 (not entirely "Dark" anymore and a personal favourite) , 50% of 900SSie -2000 track bike for rainy days-now with tuned ST2 motor and Microtec ECU. Also parked due to having been T-boned on track.

jduke

#10
March 23, 2015, 07:45:45 AM
I've read a few threads about swapping internals with Showa forks for a Suzuki GSXR 600 / 750:
http://bradthebikeboy.blogspot.com/2014/07/gsxr-fork-cartridges-in-41mm-showa.html

obaa

#11
March 23, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
I just finished doing the gsxr internal swap, using '00 GSXR 750 internals in a set of '00 900Sie forks.
The work is pretty straightforward, except that with the Monster forks, you'll need to move the GSXR shim stack onto the Monster holder (because the adjuster is in the retaining bolt and not the fork leg.  The stock GSXR springs will fit in the Monster forks as well (43mm), and happened to be the right weight for me (.8).
I haven't had to test them though, as the bike is still apart.

MonsterHPD

#12
March 23, 2015, 02:40:07 PM
The GSXR cartridge route is also very good; I've done it in 2 sets of Showa 43 mm forks with just shortening the cartridge rod, making a bottom spacer to locate the cartridge in the fork foot, and as Obaa mentioned, swapping the compression stack onto the Duc valve holder. Works great, and if you are a believer in bigger-diameter-cartridge-rods-is-better, the GSXR cartridge offers this as an extra bonus (12 mm vs. 10 mm). 
Monster 900-2002 (sold, alive and well in the UK), 749R / 1100 HYM combo for track days, wifes / my Monster Dark 800-2003 (not entirely "Dark" anymore and a personal favourite) , 50% of 900SSie -2000 track bike for rainy days-now with tuned ST2 motor and Microtec ECU. Also parked due to having been T-boned on track.

MotoPsycho

#13
March 24, 2015, 12:03:44 PM
This can be done on the Showa 41U's too ?
Edgar: '99 M750 - 2009 Indy Ducati Rat Bike Award Winner

MonsterHPD

#14
March 24, 2015, 03:36:09 PM
Yes.
Monster 900-2002 (sold, alive and well in the UK), 749R / 1100 HYM combo for track days, wifes / my Monster Dark 800-2003 (not entirely "Dark" anymore and a personal favourite) , 50% of 900SSie -2000 track bike for rainy days-now with tuned ST2 motor and Microtec ECU. Also parked due to having been T-boned on track.
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