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M620 Clutch

Started by Mother, August 09, 2015, 11:30:17 PM

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Mother

August 09, 2015, 11:30:17 PM
Are 05/06 wet clutch plates compatible with a 02/03?
found my old skin suit

Mother

#1
August 09, 2015, 11:58:55 PM Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 12:01:32 AM by Mother
02/03 Barnett part# 306.25.10001
9 friction and 8 steel plates
Kevlar

05/06 Barnett part# 306.25.20005
11 friction and 10 steel plates
Carbon Fiber

But

Are the plates the same?

Could I get the 05/06 plate kit and just load my basket until it's full and call it good?

found my old skin suit

Speeddog

#2
August 10, 2015, 12:55:42 AM
Quote from: Mother on August 09, 2015, 11:30:17 PM
Are 05/06 wet clutch plates compatible with a 02/03?

No, '05-'06 are APTC 'slipper' clutches, different diameter from '02-'03, which are the standard wet clutch plates as fitted to '04 and earlier small-case engines.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

Cloner

#3
August 10, 2015, 09:43:14 AM
Barnette wet clutches suck.  I'll never use another set.  They drag like mad.

My two cents have been contributed to this topic.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress.
Never appeal to a man's "better nature."  He may not have one.  Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage.  R.A. Heinlein

'64 Ducati Monza 250
'67 Aermacchi/HD Sprint SS (race bike)
'00 Aprilia RSV Mille
'03 Ducati 800 SS (race bike)
'04 KTM 450 EXC
'08 Kawasaki Ninja 250 (race bike)

Speeddog

#4
August 10, 2015, 11:12:31 AM
Quote from: Cloner on August 10, 2015, 09:43:14 AM
Barnette wet clutches suck.  I'll never use another set.  They drag like mad.

My two cents have been contributed to this topic.  We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress.

My experience as well, based on a single sample, at least for Ducati.
Oddly, I used several sets of Barnett plates for a Yamaha many moons ago, and they were stellar.
Unfortunately I had to eat that one Ducati set.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

ducpainter

#5
August 10, 2015, 11:18:33 AM
I knew the Barnett dry clutches for Ducs  sucked, and had good experiences with their wet plates in the past.

Good to know.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Mother

#6
August 10, 2015, 12:58:02 PM
To what degree do they suck?

This isn't a race bike, it isn't even a go fast on group rides bike.

I just want the damn thing to go forward
found my old skin suit

ducpainter

#7
August 10, 2015, 01:02:43 PM
I think they're saying you won't be happy with the drag.

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Mother

#8
August 10, 2015, 01:10:19 PM
Having never experienced that problem before

Seems like that should be a correctable issue and not necessarily a result of the plates themselves

maybe wear of another component?

I'm speculating of course but an engaged clutch shouldn't drag unless something is preventing the engagement
found my old skin suit

ducpainter

#9
August 10, 2015, 01:21:04 PM
I think since two fairly well respected Ducati techs are telling you that in their experience they drag and when they installed an OEM stack the problem disappeared...

I'd tend to listen.

I agree, if everything is in tolerance it should disengage and not drag. I don't know if the bikes in question had aftermarket slave cylinders that shortened the pushrod travel causing the drag, or if the manufacturing tolerances on the Barnett plates is such that they just don't work.

Maybe Nick or Cloner will add some info.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


Mother

#10
August 10, 2015, 02:11:43 PM Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:18:52 PM by Mother
Agreed and not questioning their epertise, just the sample size of their experience ... on second thought, not even that

I'm curious to the degree of drag

does applying a brake stop the creep?

Did it drag bad enough to kill the engine with brake application?

If so, is drag that bad an indicator, like you mentioned, of non compatible aftermarket components or of other worn parts



found my old skin suit

Speeddog

#11
August 10, 2015, 02:40:46 PM
S2R800, so it was an APTC clutch.
OEM master and slave cylinder.
OEM clutch slipping at 34.7k miles.
Replaced OEM plates with Barnett 306-25-20005.

It dragged so bad that it was totally impossible to find neutral when stopped with the engine running.
Fundamentally unacceptable.

Customer was game to try it for a while to see if they bedded in or whatever.
At 42.1k miles they were still dragging, and he had reached his limit.

Replaced them with an OEM set, and no dragging.

Motul 3000 oil for the entire time.

I serviced that bike from 17k miles to 56k miles, over a 4 1/2 year period.
The only time the clutch dragged was when the Barnett plates were in it.

Besides the pure aggravation of it, I've spent $350 in parts and labor to have a useless set of plates on my shelf.
They don't fit any bike I have, so I can't experiment with them.
I see no reason to continue experimentation, even at only my expense, when I've got a perfectly satisfactory solution (OEM plates).

But, all that aside, I think you should buy a set, and install them.
Let us know how they work.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

Mother

#12
August 10, 2015, 02:50:19 PM Last Edit: August 10, 2015, 02:52:07 PM by Mother
the snark is strong with you two this afternoon

I do appreciate the information
found my old skin suit

ducpainter

#13
August 10, 2015, 03:17:02 PM
Quote from: Mother on August 10, 2015, 02:50:19 PM
the snark is strong with you two this afternoon

I do appreciate the information

Snark...us?

...and besides...

it's only an $80 price difference.

If you can live with finding neutral on the coast then go for it.

Ducs haven't gotten any cheaper to own. :-\
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


koko64

#14
August 10, 2015, 07:14:15 PM
Makes you wonder about issues like overall stack heights and the relative width of plates. Is it possible to mix and match plates to set stack height and avoid clutch drag, or is the Barnett friction material the problem? You blokes have any tips there?

Tuning the clutch is a real pain with the wet clutch set up. With dry clutches I have been mixing Barnett and oem parts to get the result I want, but thats easy on a 900.
2015 Scrambler 800
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