**Help needed: 1100 engine into 796 frame**

[Gaijinsamadesu]

Hey everyone, my name is Jason.  I've been following this forum for a long time, but this is actually my first time posting.

I've got a problem and I was hoping I could find some answers here.  I live in Tokyo, Japan, and ride a 2010 Monster 796 with a Termignoni full exhaust system (race ECU, pipes, cans, air filter).  Main thing to note here is that the full system eliminates the infamous "flapper valve".

Anyway, I've done quite a few track days on my 796.  About 3 months ago I was doing my track licence at Motegi circuit (awesome circuit BTW), and on the very last corner of the very last lap of the day, the timing belt for the upper cylinder snaps.  I was still within the recommended mileage limit on the belts, but I guess all the track days put extra stress on them.

I get it back to my mechanic and he says that to repair the engine would cost more than the value of the bike, and he starts looking for a second-hand 796 engine.  Three months have past and no success.  Maybe they didn't sell very many 796 models in Japan.  However, to my surprise, on the Yahoo Japan auction site I've found not one, but two Monster 1100 engines. 

So, my question is this: Has anyone ever successfully put a 1100 engine into a 796 frame?  I've heard that the 696, 796, and 1100 all share the same frame and wiring harness.  I imagine that I'd have to either get an 1100 race ECU, or get my current 796 race ECU remapped (if that's even possible).  I've searched the forums and found this thread related to the subject:

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=50265.0

While that thread was helpful, it doesn't answer my question: Has anyone ever done it?  And, if nobody has done it, is it possible?

It's been 3 months and I feel like I'm in a state of limbo: I can't find another engine of the same model, and my current engine isn't worth the money to fix it.  I don't want to get rid of my bike as I've put a lot of after-market parts into it, and it has sentimental value to me.  I'm at the end of my rope, I need something to happen, feel ballest without my bike.  Any input or advice would be GREATLY, GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks very much,

Jason

[ungeheuer]

Welcome to the DMF

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?www;board=14

Has it been done?  I don't know.

Is it possible?  Almost certainly  

Is it worth the bother?...... Now that's the question  

M1100 motor will bolt into M796 frame.......  that's the easy part.  You'll need M1100 ECU or a reflash is also possible (for DS1100 or not DS, if it's DS... there's added complication for you).  Also, I'm pretty sure your M796 Termi full system headers won't fit.....  so the exhaust will be another M1100 item you'll need to acquire.

Go ahead and be the first, I'm sure it is do-able  

But understand that it'll probably cost you more time and $$$ than you right now might imagine.

[Gaijinsamadesu]

My bad, should have posted in the Introdution section first.  Sorry about that.

Jason

[ungeheuer]

No apologies necessary (I just have a bee in my bonnet about saying Konichiwa first  ).

[Raux]

The 796 full termi midpipe fit on your syock headers? If so will fit on 1100 headers... Non evo of course

[Gaijinsamadesu]

Yes, the full Termi midpipe fits on the stock 796 headers no problem.

Jason

[Gaijinsamadesu]

The 1100 engines that I'm looking at are non-Evo.

So far, based on my research from other threads, it looks like the 1100 engine will bolt into the 796 frame no problem.  The 796 full-termi midpipe that's on my bike now will fit no problem.  The injectors should work no problem as they are the same part number on the 796 and the 1100.  Many other things are the same part number based on this table that 2-Skinny made up (the table compares the 696 and the 1100, but I'm sure it also applies to the 796):

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5jIrbZCusH9ZTc0ZWVlNzEtZDNmYS00MDRiLWJmZjUtYmI0YTVkN2E2MWQ0&hl=en_US

I know about the difference between the 796 and 1100 ECU.  I have the 796 race ECU on my bike.  Maybe I can find someone selling an 1100 race ECU.

One sticking point is the ignition coil.  The 696 and 796 share the same ignition coil (PN 380.1.015.1A), different from the 1100 (PN 380.4.010.1C).  I'm not a mechanic, so how big is this problem?  Is there a work-around such as using an aftermarket coil?

Jason

[ungeheuer]

The 796 full termi midpipe fit on your syock headers? If so will fit on 1100 headers... Non evo of course

Termi Full System midpipe is not gonna fit on stock headers.

M796 Termi Full System (I actually didnt know there was a 796 Full System) midpipe might fit on M1100 Full System headers...... still gonna need M1100 Full System Headers though..... not sure they're falling from the trees (unlike stock headers which will be fairly easy to get hold of).

The 1100 engines that I'm looking at are non-Evo.

One sticking point is the ignition coil.  The 696 and 796 share the same ignition coil (PN 380.1.015.1A), different from the 1100 (PN 380.4.010.1C).  I'm not a mechanic, so how big is this problem?  Is there a work-around such as using an aftermarket coil?

Jason, non-Evo M1100 engines are Dual Spark plug, hence the non-compatible coils and hence my earlier comment about "further complication".

But..... no reason why single spark M1100 Evo engine wouldnt fit  

Can.

Worms.

Open.

[Raux]

Ung.. If that full termi mid fits on stock 796 headers then it will fit stock 1100 headers... All the midpipes of 696 796 1100 fit interchangeably. Reason everyone scrambled for 696 mid. Ehich is probably what that termi midpipe is since it fit his 796 stock pipe

[Gaijinsamadesu]

Ahh, I get it now.  The non-evo M1100 engines have two sparkplugs per cylinder.  My 796 only has one.  That's really gonna put a fly in the ointment.

I wonder if the swap would work with an 1100evo engine.  But then there's a chance that my 796 Termi midpipe may not fit.

Hmmm.  Can of worms opened indeed.

Jason

[ungeheuer]

Ung.. If that full termi mid fits on stock 796 headers then it will fit stock 1100 headers... All the midpipes of 696 796 1100 fit interchangeably. Reason everyone scrambled for 696 mid. Ehich is probably what that termi midpipe is since it fit his 796 stock pipe

Yeah, yeah.... I fitted a stock M696 midpipe to my stock M1100 headers, remember?  Key word being 'stock' Jerry.  Some confusion abounds regarding the idea of 'full system' me thinks.

Termi Full System does not use stock headers.  Or else it would not be a full system.  It'd just be stock headers, stock midpipe and Termi slip-ons.

Termi slip-ons with stock headers...


Termi Full System... with...um... full system headers...

[ungeheuer]

Ahh, I get it now.  The non-evo M1100 engines have two sparkplugs per cylinder.  My 796 only has one.  That's really gonna put a fly in the ointment.

I wonder if the swap would work with an 1100evo engine.  But then there's a chance that my 796 Termi midpipe may not fit.

Hmmm.  Can of worms opened indeed.

Jason

Single spark 1100Evo engine will fit in your 796 frame.  

M1100 Evo engine +  stock M1100 (non-Evo) headers + your stock M796 midpipe (there is no such thing as a Termi midpipe for M696/796/1100 stock headers) + your M796 Termi cans.

So there is an exhaust combo which could work.

But does M1100 Evo run Siemens ECU?  I forget?  M1100 (non-Evo) was available both with and without ABS, but IIRC M1100 Evo are all ABS.

Does your M796 have ABS Jason?

[Gaijinsamadesu]

My bike is the ABS model and has the pipes like in the second picture.

[1.21GW]

If I'm not mistaken, you posted something about busting your timing belt on the 796 and doing a lot of track and eventually wanting a more track oriented bike.  Is that correct?

If so, save the M1100 swap money and buy a 749 or 848 or something.  748/9s are in the $4k range here (NYC), which is pretty dang cheap for a solid track bike and that will be a big jump in performance from your 796 on the track.  Not sure price/availability in Japan, though.

Anyway, that's my $0.02.  However, I must say I'd enjoy watching someone convert a 796 to a franken-M1100, if only for the joy of sadism.  

[ungeheuer]

My bike is the ABS model and has the pipes like in the second picture.

Soooooo exhaust-wise if you want to reuse your existing 796 Termi Full system..... You'd need to acquire M1100 Termi Full system headers.  

You really have to want to embark on this.... um.... folly..... as a fun project in its own right.  Coz rationally it's probably not worth the effort by the time you've nutted out all the pitfalls, known and unforeseen. But if you're keen to do this just because you CAN, then I'm sure you'll get all the help you need to succeed with it  .

Just don't think it's gonna be easy or cost effective.