'04 S4R - feels a bit rough on the throttle (and clumsy) compared to my 996

[segascott]

@S21: hey, thanks for that! I'll shove it all on the tablet and make it the mandatory bathroom read for the next couple days :-D

How satisfied were you with the tuner you used in San Rafael? I'm down in Socal right now but may get moved to bay area next month for work...

(btw, that's quite a shopping list you got there - wonder if I could just get away with a Spark midpipe and a cored stock exhaust?)

[Jo3f1sh]

I didn't see it mentioned, but my bike has pretty much all of these mods done, but it was still very difficult to get a smooth off idle throttle, and it made me look pretty foolish everywhere I went in town.

It's not a cure-all, but it did definitely help in my case. I picked up what's called a "throttle tamer" which basally gives you more throttle play from fully closed to about halfway open. I'm now able to roll on MUCH easier and smoother, especially mid-corner where it's pretty dang important. It simply replaces your stock throttle tube.

Here's the one I grabbed: http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/g2-throttle-tamer-ducati

Can't hurt to throw one on along with the other stuff mentioned here.

[segascott]

whoof... all these things on the shopping list. Makes me think I should actually stop slumming around and get a job or something.

[S21FOLGORE]

wonder if I could just get away with a Spark midpipe and a cored stock exhaust?

Yes, I thinks so.
My comment about “get full system, NOT slip on” meant that you will have to ditch that udder.
So, loosing the udder by Spark mid pipe and coreing stock S4R exhaust should work.
(However, coring the stock muffler is WAY more work than simply installing the full system exhaust kit. As long as you are OK with it, yeah, that's fine.)

About Factory Pro ...
Do you remember the days of “Dinojet jet kit stage 1, 2, 3” ?  Back then, there was also “Factory Pro jet kit” .
Yes, those are the same people.
The first time I used their service was back in the mid 90s, ...in the sea of CBR600F2 and F3, I brought my 1982 CB900F with Vance&Hinse 4 into 1 megaphone  into their work shop. And I talked to Marc (that's his hand writing on the print out), explaining what I want(ed) to do with that dinosaur.

I've always been happy with their work. One thing I should mention is that not all “Dyno” are the same, and not all “Dyno tuners” offer the same level of work.
(Some Dyno, such as Dynojet, are known to inflate HP numbers ... to make the customers happy.
Some Dyno tuners tuning work  are actually limited to “auto-linked” “tune to A/F ratio” kind of work only.)

Exhaust system + dyno tuning cost, but you need to do them all at the same time. (You can do air box mod by yourself.)

As for the throttle tamer, I'd say NEGATIVE. Why?
It's an eccentric throttle cam. It'll give you non-linear throttle response. (It makes throttle unresponsive in the initial stage of the throttle opening, and progressively becomes quick throttle as you turn the throttle more.)
Who the hell in their right mind want something like that on the sport bike? It is a device that designed to “mask” the problem(unskilled rider, ill-tuned motorcycle, combination of both), or fool the beginner rider.
Ask the previous owner of your 996. If he would ever consider to install such things on his bike.
(Eccentric throttle cam will force you to be ham-fisted  throttle wrencher at throttle opening 0-40%. Very bad habit.)

EDIT : I was under the impression of that you are interest in sport riding. However, if your main thing is trotting in the congested city traffic, yeah, maybe throttle tamer is okay.

[blalor]

I've got the G2 throttle tube that I put on to try to deal with the abrupt off-idle response from the shitty fueling.  It helped a little.

I just got back from a ride around town and the Rexxer tune and throttlebody maintenance made a HUGE difference.  It's night and day.  For the first time in six months of ownership I actually like it for more than its looks.  There's no surging or bucking at steady throttle.  The engine now does exactly what the throttle's asking it to do, no hesitation.  Low speed maneuverability is massively improved because going from completely closed throttle to just a little throttle is smooth and uneventful.  I'm going to swap the stock tube back on to see how that feels, but I have a hunch I'll end up with the G2 again.

You shouldn't need to do *anything* to get a bike that's enjoyable to ride, but most manufacturers seem to be making a hash of modern FI bikes.  But, the $450 I spent is the way it should have run from the factory.  You can go crazy with an aftermarket exhaust, but you absolutely do not need to spend another two grand on top of the tune to make it rideable.  I think gains from hacking up the airbox are limited, and that's backed up by David at Rexxer.

[S21FOLGORE]

I just remembered one important thing about keeping the stock exhaust, if possible.

With most aftermarket exhaust system (ARROW, Termignoni , for example), you will have to remove the silencer portion, in order to remove the rear wheel.



This may or may not be your concern, depending how much work you do by yourself, or how much free time you have.
Still, I though this should be mentioned. something you would like to know before making a decision, whether to purchase a set of full exhaust system or to core stock muffler.

[Jo3f1sh]

As for the throttle tamer, I'd say NEGATIVE. Why?
It's an eccentric throttle cam. It'll give you non-linear throttle response. (It makes throttle unresponsive in the initial stage of the throttle opening, and progressively becomes quick throttle as you turn the throttle more.)
Who the hell in their right mind want something like that on the sport bike? It is a device that designed to “mask” the problem(unskilled rider, ill-tuned motorcycle, combination of both), or fool the beginner rider.
Ask the previous owner of your 996. If he would ever consider to install such things on his bike.
(Eccentric throttle cam will force you to be ham-fisted  throttle wrencher at throttle opening 0-40%. Very bad habit.)

EDIT : I was under the impression of that you are interest in sport riding. However, if your main thing is trotting in the congested city traffic, yeah, maybe throttle tamer is okay.

Well, for my riding style, it works for me. It gives me better modulation of the throttle, and I know how to give it the beans if I need to. It honestly doesn't make it as un-responsive as you think. Compared to the stock throttle tube, there's not THAT much of a difference where the cable rides, but it is enough to help with off idle abruptness. If I was on a track, yeah I might not run it since I'm probably going WOT quite a bit and a slightly more responsive throttle would be beneficial. But on the sweeping country roads out here, I prefer it.

But to each their own. This is my first Ducati after my Thruxton, so that's what I'm accustomed to for throttle response, and even those are pretty snatchy until you perform the needed mods to remedy it.

[Kopfjäger]

http://www.electraeon.com/throttlecam.html

[segascott]

Hey, thanks for the reply - I do remember those dynojet kits, I put one on my first gen SV back in '03! Never rode up to Factory Pro, though... it's funny, I was living in Redwood City but for some reason it felt like it would take DAYS to ride there.

The only reason I'd think about coring the stocks vs different cans is I just think they look better - so much that I'd be willing to go to the effort to chop 'em up. That being said, the udder has to go!

The S4R will be a fun bike, but more of a cruise-around thing - 996 will be track days and the occasional canyon run (if I can find a good tow setup that is). Willing to try the throttle tamer, but probably last (definitely want the remap + exhaust goodies before that)

PS: I have two different scales of the S.21 in storage!

Yes, I thinks so.
My comment about “get full system, NOT slip on” meant that you will have to ditch that udder.
So, loosing the udder by Spark mid pipe and coreing stock S4R exhaust should work.
(However, coring the stock muffler is WAY more work than simply installing the full system exhaust kit. As long as you are OK with it, yeah, that's fine.)

EDIT : I was under the impression of that you are interest in sport riding. However, if your main thing is trotting in the congested city traffic, yeah, maybe throttle tamer is okay.

[segascott]

I just got back from a ride around town and the Rexxer tune and throttlebody maintenance made a HUGE difference.  It's night and day.  For the first time in six months of ownership I actually like it for more than its looks.  There's no surging or bucking at steady throttle.  The engine now does exactly what the throttle's asking it to do, no hesitation.  Low speed maneuverability is massively improved because going from completely closed throttle to just a little throttle is smooth and uneventful.  I'm going to swap the stock tube back on to see how that feels, but I have a hunch I'll end up with the G2 again.

You shouldn't need to do *anything* to get a bike that's enjoyable to ride, but most manufacturers seem to be making a hash of modern FI bikes.  But, the $450 I spent is the way it should have run from the factory.  You can go crazy with an aftermarket exhaust, but you absolutely do not need to spend another two grand on top of the tune to make it rideable.  I think gains from hacking up the airbox are limited, and that's backed up by David at Rexxer.

This sounds great! I'd say that was $450 really well spent - it is sad that we have to futz around so much to make a stock bike work like it should, but if it gives me the warm buttery feel that I get from the tuned 996 I'll be a happy camper.

[S21FOLGORE]

It's not about WOT all the time.
You should look at the link page that Kopf posted.



The way I talk about throttle tamer may sound a little too harsh. Well,  it's because I personally feel like this kind of pats ( mod) is an insult to the Bologna's engineers. (It's like trying to put a dink holder and soft ride suspension and plushy, couch like luxury seat on Lancia Stratos.)
They put that quick action throttle on their bikes for a good reason.

One of the beauty about Ducati's cornering is, that you can use throttle to “change the bike's direction” quickly.

If you ride tight, twisty road often, and know how to use throttle, instead of using massive lean angle, you'd never consider  non-linear throttle cam such as throttle tamer.

PS: I have two different scales of the S.21 in storage!

COOL !

For those who didn't get it ...

S21 Folgore

[Armor]

Ride by wire throttles are not linear.  The throttle tamer makes it easier to control the throttle but it is not a big change.

[segascott]

I just remembered one important thing about keeping the stock exhaust, if possible.

With most aftermarket exhaust system (ARROW, Termignoni , for example), you will have to remove the silencer portion, in order to remove the rear wheel.

The last time I had the wheel off I pulled the stock cans as well - can y'all get the wheel off without pulling them? It seemed pretty tight (and I was doing a major cleaning) so off they went...

[S21FOLGORE]

With ARROW system, you will have to remove the silencers in order to take the rear wheel off.
(If you force it, you probably can take the wheel off. But, most probably either you will scratch the rim (with silencer stay) or will cause the exhaust leak at the joint(s) (if you force enough not to scratch the rim) later on.

Looking at the photo, Termignoni are the same way.

I *though* the wheel would clear the stock silencer set up, but can't remember for sure...

Stock (it's S2R, but silencer / rear wheel part is the same)


ARROW


Termi


This, the wheel will clear, for sure...
ZARD


I found the video I made ...(posted 2010 !)

[segascott]

nice vid! I've heard folks saying you don't need to take off the stock cans... sure does feel clumsy though. I'll give it another whirl just for kicks, though :-)