Another no-Monster build thread

[Howie]

First, OTC is a top quality company.  IMO, in this case "Made in China" would be more of a political problem than a quality problem.  

Do expect a bit more leakage on a cold engine.  You should hear (and feel) fine just with the lid off.  Apply air pressure slowly.  If the crank starts to rotate, as Speeddog said...   Usually the tool manufacturer recommends a pressure.  No recommendation, I would suggest 6 BAR or a little less.

Actually, I never did a leak down test on a Ducati.  I have no idea how well the valves seal with just the helper springs.  If you do get valve leakage I would suggest tapping the closing rocker with a plastic mallet to help seat the valve before condemning the valve.

As far as leakage into the crankcase, particularly on a cold engine, cylinder difference is more important than the actual number.  10% would be a pretty good standard for commercial standards.  Race engine?  I'll leave that one for Speeddog.

As a basic diagnostic test the old fashioned compression test still rules.  Cylinder leakage gives you a much better idea of engine condition before tear down.  Excessive blowby might mean you wouldn't want to do that valve job on your well used rusted out Lada.

Hope this helps.

[MonsterHPD]

Thanks for all the input, I´ll attend to this later, starting with another compression test.

I got back yesterday evening after two days at Mantorp Park, a rather typical swedish race track. The bike ran immaculately, starts at the touch of the button and compared with two other similiar 2V bikes it does not lose out anything in terms of speed or accelleration. The front straight is slightly uphill, but the braking area is slightly downhill for maybe the last 300 m.  I roll off at the 200 m mark, almost hitting the rev limiter in 5th (I think ...); the GPS showed a best top speed of 214 km/h.

At this event, the club also organizes a club championship, which this year was a two-heat event with some 25 participants in total. Due to the new Duc models that has arrived over the last years, there are now several sub-classes, 2V bikes beeing one of them.

I´m not normally a very competitive person, but when the red lights go out, something does happen. In the first race (day 1) I lowered my best lap time by two seconds, and in heat 2 (the next day) with another second. As it happens, I won both heats and am now the custodian for a year of the rather cumbersome (and fragile ...) trophy:

2019-06-20 23.07.15 by torbjörn bergström, on Flickr

To put things in perspective, we were 3 participants in the 2V cathegory, and the 3 top candidates have all eliminated themselves before the race with mechanical and/or medical issues.

My best lap was 1:33:19, the all-out winner (on a Panigale) ran a 1:21:something, and a lot of 4V riders are around the 1:30 mark.
I know where I could gain time, for instance over a blind crest followed by a lefthand corner where I know I could keep the gas open significantly longer and still make the corner .... but I just can´t. I suppose that´s what separates the real racers from wannabee´s like me :-)

Today is swedish midsummer, which is more or less the inofficial swedish national holliday. It´s a remnant from out pagan past, and a celebration to fertility (booze beeing a close second). In the christianization process which started about at thousand years ago many old pagan celebrations were taken over by the church and filled with christian content. However, they never made it with midsummer, suppose they struggled to find a concept that could compete with fertility ....

Anyway, in the link below ther is some info on midsummer if anyone´s interested. There´s a short video a bit down on the page:

https://sweden.se/collection/celebrating-the-swedish-way/article/midsummer/

Happy Midsummer :-)


  

    

[koko64]

Well done

[Speeddog]

Excellent! 
Slicing 3 sec off a lap time is no small thing!

They could doll up that trophy with a wider base?

[Howie]

Incredible 

[MonsterHPD]

The trophy is quite light, so it´s not as instable as it looks, but yes, it could do with  wider base.

Anyway, there seems always to be something to think about, and ways to do thigs better. I had a bit of time with nothing particular to do, so I figured I´d do that next cranking pressure test. The bike has been resting since the track days; I took the plugs out and pressed the button. Oops, 11 bar .... was 14.2 last time ....

First start in the morning is a bit slow, after that it was at the touch of the button. Today, the cranking was pretty slow even with one plug out, and switching to a big car battery did no difference.
Plugs back in, and the bike started and sounded as it did last time out. 

I don´t remember the exact circumstances when I did the cranking test last time (after all, I am sliding into the geriatric portion of the population). What is your recommendation on a procedure to make repeatable cranking pressure tests? Any advice will be much appreciated.

As for the leak-down test, I think I´ll rig the old motor as a guniea pig to test procedure on. All cold motor then, of course, it´s on a wooden storage stand.

BTW, I noticed sparks between the cam drive side plug cap and the CF cam belt cover. Maybe that´s the source of that irregular "ticking / crackling" noice I´ve noticed but could not pinpoint? Organizing new plug leads will be an urgent matter, I don´t want free-air sparks that close to the gas system. One fire is plenty enough, thank you ....       

[greenmonster]

Congrats to the trophy.

BTW, I noticed sparks between the cam drive side plug cap and the CF cam belt cover. Maybe that´s the source of that irregular "ticking / crackling" noice I´ve noticed but could not pinpoint? Organizing new plug leads will be an urgent matter, I don´t want free-air sparks that close to the gas system. One fire is plenty enough, thank you ....     

Had this issue on my MTS 1100 last summer. Was really causing powerloss and intermittent firing.
Had to baby the throttle home several times. Very noticeable and must be fixed. All energy to spark system is irreguralrly cut/wasted
and therefore no spark to any plug.
My dad, car electrician in the sixties, noticed it and just rolled the plug and cable w some electrical tape!
Worked fine in the sixties and fine rest of the season for me.
Replaced the plug and cable (only 870 SKr, ouch...) this spring, works fine now.
And very easy operation, slide old out and push new in.

[Dadouzzu]

Hi MonsterHPD,
How do you end up with suspension setting?

I read somewere that you weight 62kg, i weight 61kg in summer riding gear and i am trying to figure the correct spring rate on a 02 monster 900.

Actually i have 8.3Nm on andreani fork cartige and have to choose 90 or 100Nm on ohlind du321

100 seem harsh but 90 seem unbalanced with forks..

[MonsterHPD]

Hi, Dadouzzu.

My first Ducati was a M900-2002, for which I pretty soon bought an Öhlins. It came with a 100 N/m spring, which is what used most of the time. I did try an 85 N/mm spring, but that was way too soft.

On my present road bike, a M800 -2003 (essentially the same bike as the M900), I also run an Öhlins shock, but with a 95 N/mm spring. I think any of those would be OK for you. I think 90 N/mm would be too soft, though.

In the forks I have 8.75 or 9.0 N/mm springs, can´t remember exactly (I think I have one 8.5 and one 9.0).  8.3 N/mm as in your case would be slightly on the soft side, but much better than the 2-stage stock springs, which start at 6 N/mm.   

 

[Speeddog]

For reference, I currently weigh 80 kilo with all gear, and I'm riding a '98 M750 that's ~400 lb dry.

Penske emulsion shock, spring 600 lb/in (105 N/mm).

Monster forks with TiN legs and SBK cartridges, so travel is 140mm+.
Combination of fork springs, 0.86 kg/mm straight rate and 0.6/0.86 OEM progressive.
5wt oil at 160mm.

[MonsterHPD]

For reference, I currently weigh 80 kilo with all gear, and I'm riding a '98 M750 that's ~400 lb dry.

Penske emulsion shock, spring 600 lb/in (105 N/mm).

Monster forks with TiN legs and SBK cartridges, so travel is 140mm+.
Combination of fork springs, 0.86 kg/mm straight rate and 0.6/0.86 OEM progressive.
5wt oil at 160mm.

Sounds reasonable, and really well sorted out for your needs, shows you can really tailor your personal set-up.
However, I have to ask: 140 mm+ fork travel; really ...?

[koko64]

I'm hoping to get that much travel for my Scrambler M750 and trying to follow Speeddogs example. Spare forks are with the suspension shop at present and they are modifying for extra travel for broken back roads and dirt roads, kind of scrambler/dual sport style. Different to the needs to a road race bike.

[Dadouzzu]

Hi, Dadouzzu.

My first Ducati was a M900-2002, for which I pretty soon bought an Öhlins. It came with a 100 N/m spring, which is what used most of the time. I did try an 85 N/mm spring, but that was way too soft.

On my present road bike, a M800 -2003 (essentially the same bike as the M900), I also run an Öhlins shock, but with a 95 N/mm spring. I think any of those would be OK for you. I think 90 N/mm would be too soft, though.

In the forks I have 8.75 or 9.0 N/mm springs, can´t remember exactly (I think I have one 8.5 and one 9.0).  8.3 N/mm as in your case would be slightly on the soft side, but much better than the 2-stage stock springs, which start at 6 N/mm.   

 

Wow, 9Nm on both track and street bike?

Maybe for the stiff damping of Andreani cartridge but it feels a lot stiff even compared to a 07 gsxr600 and stiff compared to the shocks with 100Nm springs.
With 135mm of oil i can't use the last 35mm even with fully open compression and lifting the rear wheel on brake.

On shocks i use only the first half of the stroke but with the 90Nm on the exit of turns it squat and run wide....🤔


With both andreani and ohlins with 100Nm every little bump upset the bike or make it loose traction

Maybe i have to remove a lot of shims 😂😂

[koko64]

I've found oil level tricky and tedious and its annoying how there isnt a standard for fork oil weights across the industry. Like others have said, completely draining usd forks is also tricky and the residual oil buggers up your oil levels. Aside from a spring or oil change, nowdays I focus on other jobs and give the forks to specialists.

[Speeddog]

Sounds reasonable, and really well sorted out for your needs, shows you can really tailor your personal set-up.
However, I have to ask: 140 mm+ fork travel; really ...?

Not that I think you wouldn't believe me without a pic, just wanted to make sure I wasn't spreading disinformation!  

That's fully extended condition, and I regularly use that amount of travel ~125mm.
every ride I've got a rather severe driveway dip and have to also go up and down a curb.
At full hard bottom, it'll push that oring all the way down, so 147-3=144mm travel.

Oh, previous spring info was wrong, I'm using one linear 0.83 and one 0.62/0.86 OEM dual rate.

SBK cartridges are really nice, didn't have to do any mods to get that travel.
I did check very carefully to make sure they didn't serve as a bottoming stop..... there's not a lot of free space.
And there's not many 17x0.15 shims left on the base valve.

----------------edit-----------------

Forgot, swingarm is extended 50mm longer than OEM steel too.