Ducati Monster Forum

powered by:
January 06, 2025, 07:31:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: No Registration with MSN emails
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
* Discussion Boards
Introduce Yourself
FAQs and Policies

General Monster Forum
Remembering our friends...in Memorium
Riding Techniques
Tutorials
Tech
Accessories & Mods
Gear
Racing & Trackdays
Stolen Motorcycles

No Moto Content
Board Tech Issues

Local Club Boards
BOMb
RCP

* Sponsors
Valley Desmo Service
California Cycleworks
MotorcycleGear.Com
Monsterparts
Minor Sponsor Board
Sponsor Info

* Flea Market
Monsters for Sale
Monsters Wanted
Other Bikes
Parts for Sale
Parts Wanted
Gear for Sale
Misc for Sale/Wanted

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
« previous next »
  Print  
Author Topic: coffin --> radial master cylinder sizing?  (Read 3079 times)
BK_856er
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 962


2007 M695; 2004 749s
« on: June 26, 2018, 09:41:21 PM »
My '07 695 has been happily running the stock 12mm clutch master (APTC wet clutch) and a 16mm brake master (larger 900ss part) paired with 4-pad SBK calipers.

I've been thinking about changing to the Brembo RCS radial setup for more precision and better feel.

Is it correct to use the same bore size when making this change?  I have a forged Brembo 19x18mm brake MC on my 749s, which has the same calipers as my monster, and the setup is quite nice.  But the fulcrum distance is different on the coffins, right?

Not exactly sure how best to size the Brembo RCS for the monster and avoid surprises, especially with the clutch.

Anyone have experience with this?

BK
Logged
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2018, 10:02:12 PM »
Leverage ratios are different amongst the 3.

If you like the setup your 749 has, use that sizing.

I wouldn't spend the money on a radial master, bang:buck is low.
Logged
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
BK_856er
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 962


2007 M695; 2004 749s
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2018, 08:22:50 AM »
I've never let low bang:buck stop me before!   Grin

BK
Logged
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2018, 08:50:37 AM »
Quote from: BK_856er on June 27, 2018, 08:22:50 AM
I've never let low bang:buck stop me before!   Grin

BK


Then rock out with a radial clutch master!

APTC is definitely less spring pressure to fight against, so you could use a unit with bigger piston/less leverage than your 749.
Logged
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
He Man
Post Whore
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11601



WWW
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2018, 09:08:47 AM »
just a question, but the radials are meant to increase leverage, so technically, shouldnt they be easier at the lever?
Logged
2006 Ducati S2R1100 Yea.... stunttin like my daddy CHROMED OUT 1100!!!!


Check out my Latest Video! 05/13/2017 :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4xSA7KzEzU
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2018, 10:04:16 AM »
Radials are just different packaging.
Piston sizes and leverage ratios are chosen to work in that packaging.
The fundamentals of the hydraulics are the same, the 'load' (clutch, caliper) is the same.
Logged
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78890


DILLIGAF
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2018, 03:00:42 PM »
I've ridden an SS with a 749/999 brake master, and the lever feels like squeezing a brick...no feel at all.

I much prefer coffin, or pee cup, masters.
Logged
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”
koko64
Post Whore
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 15715
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2018, 05:10:52 PM »
DP, single or dual disc on the SS?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 05:18:12 PM by koko64 » Logged
2015 Scrambler 800
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78890


DILLIGAF
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2018, 05:13:52 PM »
Quote from: koko64 on June 27, 2018, 05:10:52 PM
DP, single or dual disc on the ☼?
Dual.

Not a mod I'd be interested in.
Logged
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”
koko64
Post Whore
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 15715
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2018, 05:25:11 PM »
The original coffin master on my M900 is very powerful. With sintered pads the front chirped under harder braking even on hot days. Wet braking was very nervous. I changed to platinum pads on Nicks suggestion for more feel. I had a 999 master on my previous M900 with twin discs, gold lines, sintered pads and the feel was great.

Maybe go for a Dyno tune and just try different pads.
Logged
2015 Scrambler 800
ducpainter
The Often Hated
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 78890


DILLIGAF
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2018, 05:41:32 PM »
What's wrong with powerful?  Grin

I like coffin, and pee cup, masters.

I also like 4 pad calipers, but I'm not likely to buy a set.

I'll figure it out.
Logged
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”
koko64
Post Whore
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 15715
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 05:43:57 PM »
Power is good, even better with feel. Cool
Logged
2015 Scrambler 800
BK_856er
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 962


2007 M695; 2004 749s
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2018, 07:18:47 PM »
Brembo RCS brake MC @ 19mm seems like the right choice, since I have effectively the same setup on the SBK and like it.

The APTC clutch MC is harder for me to figure out.  Stock is 12mm with unknown (to me) leverage distance.  Brembo RCS clutch MC is available in 14, 16, 17, 19mm piston diameter options + the RCS 16 or 18mm leverage distance.  I suppose 14mm is the safe bet here.  My SBK uses a 16x18 Brembo billet clutch MC, but of course that's a standard dry clutch and probably not well suited to the easy-pull APTC and its narrow engagement range.

BK
Logged
Speeddog
West Valley Flatlander
Flounder-Administrator
Post Whore
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14813


RIP Nicky
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2018, 07:36:44 PM »
I really like the OEM Goldline 16 with regular 32/34 calipers or 4-pads.

In comparison, a 16 coffin or even pee-cup big pivot 16 have more leverage built in by the geometry.
So they will have a bit more power, at the expense of more lever travel.

They feel a bit squishy to me, but it's well within the normal range of preference amongst folks.
I don't like the feel of radials on a clutch, the pivot is in an odd spot so the lever swings awkwardly.
As a reference, I really like 15/39 gearing on my M750, so my preference may not be anything like yours....

I suspect you'll get a bit more powerful feel as the 695 is lighter and position is more upright (I'm assuming stockish SBK).
I'm running a set of 4-pads that I bought from Supafly, he had them on his 620.

I will try to dig out the leverage numbers, I have some here somewhere.
Logged
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
BK_856er
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 962


2007 M695; 2004 749s
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2018, 09:00:39 AM »
OE leverage numbers would be great to have.  I found measuring on the bike to be iffy at best with 1mm precision.  Strange that not everyone prefers radial masters, but as stated I suppose it's a preference thing.  So many factors when you consider MC, pads, calipers, discs, chassis, suspension, speeds....

BK
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
« previous next »
 
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder 		Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
SimplePortal 2.1.1