M1100 Starter Replacement

[Mhanis]

I rode to work no problem. After work it didn't seem to want to start, it cranked OK but struggled to fire up. It finally did, and I rode most of the way home and stopped at a convenience store. After a 5 minute stop the bike wouldn't start and I assumed the battery was dead.

A new battery was installed and now I cannot get the bike to turn over at all. I get an audible “click” from the “starter contactor”, or “remote switch” part number 397.4.005.1A.

So at work the bike would roll over but it seemed sluggish; I don't recall if it ever turned over at the convenience store, but it certainly tried to. I got a hell of a lot more action there than I have since I have installed the new battery.

Thoughts?

Mark

[Howie]

Was the battery charged before installation?  They discharge while sitting in the store.  Was the old battery load tested?  You could have high resistance in the starting circuit.

[Mhanis]

I had a couple of days before I picked up the battery so I called the dealer in advance so they could have the battery charged up. When I picked it up they said it was all set to go.

I did not have the old battery load tested; I thought about that a bit today (actually having BOTH of them checked) and I am now kicking myself for not getting that done.

Mark

[Howie]

The questions were to create a starting point.  Sometimes You gotta do what you gotta do at the time.  Battery was a logical step.  If tho old one was over four years old you were about due anyway.

To save typing:



Yes this is for a car, but it works for bikes.

[Mhanis]

Thanks Howie, I am off to prod around with my multimeter.

On a related note, I cannot disconnect my tank from the bike. I cannot remove the "flange cover" to access the quick releases for the fuel lines.



The circled nut will not turn independently from the bolt, or rather the bolt itself is turning with the nut. I have the other one loosened but whatever is supposed to hold the bolt in place, isn't. I squirted the bolt with a bit of break-free to see if that would help but it didn't.

Any suggestions on that without boogering up the threads or leave well enough alone since I don't NEED to remove at this point?

Mark

[Mhanis]

After probing with the multimeter. I cleaned all of the connections at the battery and starter just to be safe anyway.

Checking the battery at the posts I got 12.58
Pushing the start button it dropped to 12.36
When I went from the negative battery post to a ground I got -12.43 (negative number because of which lead was where, right?)
When I checked the positive battery post to the started post it read -12.31 that changed to -.9 with the starter button pushed. Is that where my problem is?

Just for grins I reattached the old battery and while I didn't measure everything it acted the same way.

Mark

[Howie]

That bolt, common problem.  If I remember correctly the bolt goes into a rivnut that is spinning.  I think, you hahe two choices, for later, getting the bike to start is more important.  Try downward pressure first.  If that doesn't work, drill the head off.  Befor anything, search on this board to see what others have done to fix the problem.  I'm also thinking Speeddog knows about this

If you reverse the leads you will get a negative reading.  Before condemning the starter you want to perform two more checks.  You might have high resistance at the starter connection.  Is there voltage drop at the starter connection?  One lead to the connector on the starer end of the negative cable, the other on the stud.  Hit the starter button.  High resistance still there?  clean connection.  Caution:  Be careful, it is easy to break the lug inside the starter.  Alternative is battery direct to the starter.  Starter turns, starter is good..  Caution here too, you are bypassing all safeties, so make sure the bike is in neutral.  You also want to rule out a seized engine, though it is most likely fine.  Remove spark plugs,  with the rear wheel in the air, put the bike in gear and see if the engine spins by turning the rear wheel.

[Mhanis]

Before I start doing stupid shit I want to make sure I am clear. To connect the battery directly to the starter to check it I will NOT have the batter attached to the motorcycle battery leads at all, correct? Then using my car jumper cables I'll connect one end to the positive battery terminal and the other end to the starter post where it is connected to the bike electrical system. At that point, as soon as I make a connection the starter SHOULD start cranking, regardless of the position of the key or anything else.

Does that sound right?

Do I need to ground the negative battery terminal to the bike?

I am skipping the bolt issue for now.

Yore help is greatly appreciate Howie!


Mark

[Howie]

You can just take your jumper cable and go from positive on the bike battery to the starter lug.  If you choose to use the car battery, negative to bare metal on the starter or a good ground.  Car not running.  No need to disconnect the bike battery.

[Mhanis]

Understood. I'll use the bike battery. I'll try it this evening and report back.

Mark

[Mhanis]

After talking this through with a guy at work I have an understanding of what I am doing by testing these different points along the starting system. Armed with knowledge I hit the bike with my multimeter again. I get 12.5ish between the two battery posts. Between the negative battery post and INTO the relay I get the same 12.5ish. When I press the starter button I get about the same coming OUT of the relay.

Now the wire coming OUT of the relay is the same wire that attaches directly to the starter, right? I get the same reading at the end of that wire where it goes into the starter.

So I sounds to me like everything is working up to the starter. I tried connecting the starter directly to the battery and just got a single bit of movement/sound from the starter, but only once.

Does this point to the starter? If my starter was "dying" last week would it have given my the symptoms I experienced, like the battery was weak?

Mark

[DarkMonster620]

~~~

Does this point to the starter? If my starter was "dying" last week would it have given my the symptoms I experienced, like the battery was weak?

Mark

From what I can read, either your starter is  "stuck" or the magnets are gone[sorry, translating directly from Spanish] or as you say, the starter has said  "boobye"  . . .

Now, if you push start the bike, will it start? What voltage do you get at battery in idle?

[Howie]

Sounds like the starter.  I have to say sounds like because this is the internet.  You might want to try cleaning the connection at the motor first.  Then try running it out of the bike. 

A lot cheaper than the dealer:
https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/

[Mhanis]

I appreciate the responses guys. Unfortunately all of this is going to be put on the back burner for a couple of weeks as we are headed out on vacation this weekend and I am simply running out of time.

I'll post up when we get back with any updates.

Thanks again fellas!

Mark

[NAKID]

These bikes are very picky with regards to grounding. I remember a time when I took the battery out to change it and when I hooked it back up, I connected a ground meant for the ECU to the main ground. The situation you're having now sounds very similar to mine. Check your ground locations.