well I really wanted a Monster... I almost got one!

[buzzer]

Thought I would update as although the bike went well enough, it missed that sharpness of the original bike… I thought it may have been the carb conversion, but it didn't feel like it...

so I checked the timing with a timing disk and a strobe, and guess what, the values in the matrix in the software didn’t correspond  with what was actually happening on the engine!  the bike was actually retarded throughout the rev range.  I think this has something to do with the way the software is configured, I have emailed the manufacturer to see what they say.  As a work around I set about changing the values so I had correct advance using a timing disc and a strobe.  its now running MUCH MUCH better, and feels far more crisp!  here are the before and after maps.  although the second map says its getting 42 degrees advance, in reality its 34. It also ticks over much better...  at the moment the TPS option is off...  I will wait to see what Ignitech say before I do much more

below is a link to a 1 min video...

[Speeddog]

It's been a while since I've fiddled with an Ignitech, and never an 'ie triggered' one, so I'm not sure what all you've done.

Will have to think about it a bit.

One thing to avoid is any 'calculated' advance at idle, at least with the 'carbie' triggered setup.
The actual crank speed at idle varies a lot through each revolution, and if the Ignitech is calculating advance, the idle gets really ratty and unstable.
Has to be pure mechanical timing at idle.

With the 'ie triggered' setup, it may be counting the teeth and have a more accurate crank speed from which to calculate.

[buzzer]

the tickover is solid and there is no fluctuation on the timing.  I think its because I have said in the map that if the RPM is between 500 and 1600 then the timing is 10 degrees.  so even if the rpm is fluctuating, the advance remains stable.

[koko64]

Interesting. Of course if the base advance value entered does not match the "mechanical" parameters of the true base advance then the whole map is out one way or another either retarded or advanced. I'm dependent on people smarter then me for the correct base advance number.
Brad Black found a timing delay effect in early units that required compensating for in the map values. IME later versions didn't have this issue, but that's what may be happening here. The same "advance lag" effect will occur if the base advance value entered is incorrectly overstated. Certainly tricky with the EFI to carb conversion. At least you don't have the weak inductive pick up signal at low rpm issue of the carbed bikes.

[koko64]

I saw a similar effect on a carbed model that had the pick ups in a different position to what I was led to believe. This threw my numbers out about 4 deg less advance over the whole curve and made response very soft until I reset the map. I ended up mapping for higher octane fuel and as much timing as I could get away with to get more aggressive response. I sold the bike before fitting a TPS to the FCR's for 3D mapping. The bike has CV carbs now.
You're doing great work and it's good for the likes of me to watch and pick up stuff.

[greenmonster]

Interesting.
And strange, a 1k DS engine should 't have 42 at full throttle,
your map in post #89 is correct.
Lets see what Ignitech says.

[koko64]

That's a lot of advance for dual plug heads. Maybe map #89 with a different base advance  to make the numbers true? That is if the advance lag effect of some units isn't present because then you have to add extra as the rpm rises to compensate and get a true advance figure. If Thais is the case then buzzer has compensated for it like Brad found was necessary with some units. It may just be that the base advance was incorrect and holding all the numbers back so to speak, that would be the simplest issue to have. Afaik the advance lag was resolved in later versions and I've never seen it and that includes a mates very early Jurrassic version on a Superlight. The only time I've seen that kind of timing lag is due to the pick ups not being where I expected or the base advance input being incorrect. Buzzer is counting teeth and calculating which is harder than sliding pick ups a few mm each way IMO and I'm guessing his maths is better than mine.

What are your thoughts on this buzzer?

[koko64]

Gert, buzzer has done a workaround to get the timing closer to what you suggested in real terms according to his timing wheel and strobe light. His advance is much closer to oem and the real advance is not represented by the Ignitech map. So either there could be a real lag in advance rate in the actual module or just something off in the set up specs in the software.

I'm curious as to what buzzer thinks is causing this.

Had a response from Ignitech yet buzzer?

[buzzer]

Gert, buzzer has done a workaround to get the timing closer to what you suggested in real terms according to his timing wheel and strobe light. His advance is much closer to oem and the real advance is not represented by the Ignitech map. So either there could be a real lag in advance rate in the actual module or just something off in the set up specs in the software.

I'm curious as to what buzzer thinks is causing this.

Had a response from Ignitech yet buzzer?

I only emailed them last night, but I did have a conversation with Liam Venter who was VERY helpful and has made suggestions....  I need to implement them now but I am away a few days.  will update when I get back

[koko64]

  Did you buy his manual? Its a cracker. Hats off to FBG who have done a lot of testing to really explore the Ignitech's requirements and potential.

[buzzer]

Update, and yes I did buy his manual!  Fantastic!

Liam identified the problem....  the tooth count setting were wrong, it was reading one tooth out...   its a 48 tooth gear, so each tooth is 7.5 degrees, but its a cam wheel so it runs at half engine revs, which means its 15 degrees.  so I was was actually 15 degrees out.  hence I was having to compensate!  no longer, and I have a rock steady tick over.


Looks like the ignitech  supplied settings were wrong!  here is the final map I am using and I have to say the bike runs SO SO much better! I am finally happy with how it runs!

[koko64]

Great outcome

[greenmonster]

 

And now some Dyno time to get jetting spot on.

[buzzer]

been doing quite a few miles on this over the summer....  here is a short video with sound 

[Howie]

Looks even better on the road