Hattar rant

[Desmostro]

<RANT>

No dinner, no movie, not even a reach. I canceled order but now have "store credit" 
What do they have that I can't get anywhere else for way less?
<RANT\>
 

dude -  i am seeing a trend here <RANT> 

did they at least kiss you before they f*cked you?  that would have been the decent thing to do.

anyway, i hate to hear of folks getting reamed, and even hate it more when the folks doing the reaming don't listen to the reamee, and then do the "right thing".  i guess they just don't understand something called "lifetime value" of customers, and as such, don't understand that when a customer gets reamed, they generally tell all their friends, and anyone else that will listen, about the reaming, and to avoid the reamers.

hope hattar does the right thing and either provides you with a price adjustment on this purchase, or will refund your money if you decide to cancel the order and re-order from a dealer with pricing more in line with fair market pricing.

a presto,
johnc

[DanTheMan]

<RANT>

No dinner, no movie, not even a reach. I canceled order but now have "store credit" 
What do they have that I can't get anywhere else for way less?
<RANT\>
 

trade for cash to someone that needs to buy parts or stuff from them

[Cynic]

<RANT>

No dinner, no movie, not even a reach. I canceled order but now have "store credit" 
What do they have that I can't get anywhere else for way less?
<RANT\>
 

Store Credit?  Seriously.. can't they in turn cancel the order?  If they already got the helmet,then I guess they punish you with store credit, but if not they are just being bastards.   Making you spend money there that you would obviously not want to spend.  Well I won't be going to Hattar for anything... ever.   

[Desmostro]

trade for cash to someone that needs to buy parts or stuff from them

Who wants to spend $520 bucks at Hattar?

[sally101]

Who wants to spend $520 bucks at Hattar?

Hmm sounds tempting...
I hear they have that new AGV helmet in stock.. 

[Popeye the Sailor]

Who wants to spend $520 bucks at Hattar?

Why would I only want to buy one boot?




 

[AdeebHattar]

So after buying an 848 from Hattar I thought we'd be friends.
No.
I go in there to order a helmet after extensive hunting. AGV GP Tech. High crash rating, DOT, ECE, Super light all that. Plus it FITS  [clap].
Anyway, $600.
Kneedraggers.com has it for $482.  >:( I find out the next day. Many other places have it for $100 less.

I call Hattar to ask WTF?  They say they can't compete with the warehouses and go on to cry me a river. Ok $50. more for being a swanky dealer. I could deal with that. $120 more! Someone's pulling my chain. Sales boy went on to slime me with excuse after excuse not budging on price, not a penny.
That’s down right insulting. That’s a FIFTH of the cost of the helmet that’s supposed to be for the ‘service aspect of the sales experience.‘
I like the big screen TV there, but not enough to buy it if you know what I mean.
No way. I canceled the order. Am I wrong here? I’m all about buying local, just not getting reamed local.

Buyer beware!

I don’t really know who all of you are because of screen names, but I’m sure I’ve met a lot of you.  My name is Adeeb.  My brother Todd and I own and operate Hattar Motorsports.  So a couple of great customers were here at the shop yesterday, both Monster owners.  They both were a little bummed about this thread and told me to check it out.  Of course I did and now my first post ever.  Maybe my last if you guys boo me off the stage!
I think that as a consumer you have to make your own decisions.  If you are a great shopper and always seem to get the best deal on everything you buy, more power to you.  You will probably do well financially and maybe retire early.  The majority of us though are just looking to get a fair deal (not get ripped off) and know that the store will stand behind the product and greet us with a smile every time we come in.  As you can see at the link below, we didn’t overcharge you, or ream you as you put it.  We simply charged you what AGV thinks their product is worth.  Personally I think its worth more if you compare it to Shoei and Arai.  We didn’t mark it up one penny over MSRP.  It sounds like you expect us to shop every website around, find the lowest price and mark our stuff accordingly.  I can tell you that if we did that we wouldn’t last a year. 

http://www.agv.com/dyn_prod.php?p=GP_TECH_COMB_BLU&k=96953

We give everybody 10% store credit on every part or accessory that you buy here.  That would have been $60 store credit that you could use in Parts or Service.  That puts your price at $540, about $50 bucks more than kneedraggers.  Notice on kneedraggers site, on just about every item it says “Usually ships in 3 days”  That’s because they are probably a group of 3 guys that are in their garage with some catalogs.  When you order your AGV, they order it and when it comes to them in 3 days, they ship it to you.  They have no overhead or stock and can almost afford to live off of $60 profit on a $600 helmet.  You may not care, or say that we are “crying you a river”, but really we are just telling you the truth.  If you want to come to a garage with no big TV, pool table, no trained staff to help you buy the best product for your needs and of course no products to touch and try on, that’s what you’d get if we did business your way.  Thankfully for us there are enough people to help us create a cool atmosphere and a selection of high end products.  I can tell you though, these sites won’t be around for much longer.  I’d be more than happy to explain it to you if you want to come talk to me about it.
 
Listen, I’ve already rambled too much I'm sure.  The long and the short of it is that you have a choice in a free market.  You should shop where you're happy.  If getting the best deal is what you want, then by all means do it.  But please don’t bash us for asking MSRP on our products.  We’re not gouging anybody, but we do feel that the products we sell are worth every penny.  We treat everybody who comes in this store with respect and most would say they feel like family.  If you got this far in my “Rant”, thank you for reading.   By the way, you got store credit and not cash because we took a jacket back that you purchased (at MSRP!) 3 months earlier with your bike.  The jacket stitching was coming out and you deserved a new jacket.  You said you lost faith in the jacket and wanted something else instead.  We understood, conveyed your message to Ducati and gave you a full refund for store credit so you could buy an AGV.  Normally you would have either got a replacement jacket or a month of waiting for a repair.  We agreed with you and battled on your behalf and you got what you wanted. 
     

   

[duckwrench13]

Regardless of the transaction that took place, giving store credit vs. a refund is now the issue. If a product was ordered, and a customer cancels the order... for whatever reason... then there should be no reason for you not to issue a refund of the purchase price. A restocking fee of reasonable percentage would more than likely be common, but to not refund any of the purchase price, and only issue a store credit, is wrong.

 Regardless of the customer's reason, they have requested a refund, and would like to purchase a different item/ from a different location/ whatever. You're essentially keeping their money, plain and simple. It has been made clear that they do not wish to purchase the item from you, so why not issue the refund and be done with it? It was a simple procedure, that would have only taken a minute to do, but now threatens the reputation and continuation of your business in the local motorcycle community.

You know what they say... "Have a good experience, they tell a few people. Have a bad one, they tell everyone." I highly doubt that would be good for anyone's business.

I think it's a very easy remedy to what could become an extremely volatile situation.

I know that you are trying to start with a clean slate, from the old location's issues...both internal and external. It would be in everyone's best interests if the slate were to be kept clean.

[johnc]

+ eleventy billion on what duckwrench13 wrote.

<marketeer_soapbox>
marketing/sales 101 for ANY business (not just hattar):
1. happy, shinny customers are a businesses best sales and marketing tool.
2. it typically costs a LOT less to keep a customer, than to obtain a new one.
3. consider the lifetime value of a customer ... always consider the long plan (if you have one)
</marketeer_soapbox>

[DanTheMan]

Regardless of the transaction that took place, giving store credit vs. a refund is now the issue. If a product was ordered, and a customer cancels the order... for whatever reason... then there should be no reason for you not to issue a refund of the purchase price. A restocking fee of reasonable percentage would more than likely be common, but to not refund any of the purchase price, and only issue a store credit, is wrong.

 Regardless of the customer's reason, they have requested a refund, and would like to purchase a different item/ from a different location/ whatever. You're essentially keeping their money, plain and simple. It has been made clear that they do not wish to purchase the item from you, so why not issue the refund and be done with it? It was a simple procedure, that would have only taken a minute to do, but now threatens the reputation and continuation of your business in the local motorcycle community.

You know what they say... "Have a good experience, they tell a few people. Have a bad one, they tell everyone." I highly doubt that would be good for anyone's business.

I think it's a very easy remedy to what could become an extremely volatile situation.

I know that you are trying to start with a clean slate, from the old location's issues...both internal and external. It would be in everyone's best interests if the slate were to be kept clean.

DW

Desmostro failed to mention he purchased the helmet with store credit(not CC or cash). So when he canceled the order they just returned the store credit that he already had. And it looks like they took the jacket back on "good faith". I suppose they could have told him to go pound sand and take up the warranty with the mfg, but they didn't.

And as far as prices, that's business, Hattar has overhead that these small online folk don't. Some customers prefer buyer experience vs best price.,  I think one retail store told me one time, take the cost of the product online and add overnight shipping and that's how they compare prices. 

[duckwrench13]

Desmostro failed to mention he purchased the helmet with store credit(not CC or cash). So when he canceled the order they just returned the store credit that he already had...
And as far as prices, that's business, Hattar has overhead that these small online folk don't...  ...I think one retail store told me one time, take the cost of the product online and add overnight shipping and that's how they compare prices. 

I'm going on the information given here. If he had a standing credit for $XXX, then I can understand Hattar's position. But as johnc pointed out...

2. it typically costs a LOT less to keep a customer, than to obtain a new one.

Having to take a small hit on a margin (on one particular product) is a small thing to quibble over, especially considering profit made of off service, and bike sales. Example, from my personal experiences in the industry:

6K service on "another Italian brand" is a set rate of 6 hours, @ $88/hr. I can do a 6K, on this particular bike...without cutting corners... in 2.5 to 3 hours. Customer is still charged for a 6 hour job. do I see any more in my paycheck? No. Profits to the shop. This is not always the case. Sometimes that 6 hour job can be more like 10+ hours... all depending on the condition of the machine.

But to the point... It would be far less fuss to match a price, etc, for a returning customer, than it is to lose that customer, and possibly lose a few more in the process.

Personally, I won't shop there, so I really don't care how they conduct themselves.

[Desmostro]

Ya all that. But, I went out of my way and just bought a brand new SBK there, when I live a mile from another dealer because my first Ducati was from there. Gee, am I not a decent customer? No, yes? Why all the hassle?

I was very reasonable in all the discussions about the jacket, the helmet etc. on the phone and in the store. Hattar would not budge on policy or a penny on any of it. I called about the jacket the first month I got it and got an earful, and a sales pitch, and a not our problem we're going to send it away. So I took my time coming in.
Then the helmet at MSRP is understandable, but your competition is WAY below that. Over $100. When someone's not happy with that, some who spends thousands with you. You can't do ANYTHING on the price? $50? Nothing? A gesture? Store credit just means I have to spend more there.

That's a bit lame IMO being so inflexible. So I'm telling people how I feel about it. Sorry guys, I'm not happy;
bottom line, I'm not seeing equal effort on your part.

[MendoDave]

I went in there once to check the place out, and had a pretty good experience. One of the sales guys Knew just about everything there was to Know about the Superbikes and the 696. I usually go to Moto Mechanica because its way closer to me, But a friend of mine bought his 848 from Hattar and had nothing bad to say about them.

[slower than...]

Here's my Hattar story...

I like a sweater Ducati has called the Company Sweater, but no one seems to have it in stock.  All I really wanted was to know was if there was a way to see the sweater, to see what size I really needed, and to try it on, because truthfully, a lot of times clothes just don't look right on you.  So there was no way I would commit that kind of money without being able to try it on first.  Again, I wasn't asking for a discount, and  I certainly wasn't asking Hattar to compete against an online store. 

What I was told was sure, simply purchase it in advance, pay for it in full, and if you don't like it, we'll charge you a 35% restocking fee.  I have never been back since.

[desmoquattro]

Here's my Hattar story...

I like a sweater Ducati has called the Company Sweater, but no one seems to have it in stock.  All I really wanted was to know was if there was a way to see the sweater, to see what size I really needed, and to try it on, because truthfully, a lot of times clothes just don't look right on you.  So there was no way I would commit that kind of money without being able to try it on first.  Again, I wasn't asking for a discount, and  I certainly wasn't asking Hattar to compete against an online store. 

What I was told was sure, simply purchase it in advance, pay for it in full, and if you don't like it, we'll charge you a 35% restocking fee.  I have never been back since.

To be fair, I think Ducati imposes that kind of situation on all their dealers. Their apparel is expensive. And dealers don't want to carry a lot of stock. So the dealers order what they think they'll sell, and leave the other stuff (like your sweater) for special orders. This puts us American customers in a bind because (A) Ducati apparel sometimes doesn't fit well and (B) restocking fees suck. Bad situation all around, but made worse by having to pay top-dollar for the privilege of wearing their brand.

I won't comment directly on Desmostro's situation, other than to say that keeping a customer like him happy, within reason, is almost always good business. We're a tight community in the Ducati world, and news of bad experiences travels fast. I have, however, noticed that Hattar has changed a bit. There's more of an emphasis on the very high-end accessories and apparel. The last time I was in there, I was a bit taken aback at the prices. We're all sensitive to that these days, as energy costs soar and inflation rears its ugly head. So yes, when I go someplace to look for levers, shifters, clutch covers, pipes, apparel, and any other larger-ticket item, I'm going to be more price-sensitive than if I'm looking for a $5 bottle of cleaning fluid.

Adeeb, thanks for posting up and attempting to address this. I think everyone appreciates it when folks in local retail participate here. But keep in mind that Hattar is held to a high standard on this board precisely because you guys have traditionally been a great alternative to certain other Ducati dealers in the area. I don't know if you've seen some folks' rants about dealers (which shall remain nameless here) both here and on the legacy board, but they were pretty merciless  You and Todd would do well to take a look at those and try to understand that perspective. If I were in your position (e.g. running a retail business) I'd be very interested in those.

Joe