How to grow a neurotic wuss

[NeufUnSix]

"When I was a kid, we were happy to go out and swing a brick on the end of a cat gut at each other" paraphrasing some comedian I heard years ago

I'm of the what-doesn't-kill-me-makes-me-stronger school of thought. If every kid out there never got sick, it will just make them more vulnerable to the next superbug/round of food poisoning. Maybe these parents should visit some backwater in Africa and look at kids dying of AIDS, malaria etc to remind them of how good they really have it, and to stop pregnant doging about this kind of nonsense.

Now pass the antibacterial hand spray, my keyboard is probably crawling with all kinds of icky germs.

[Grampa]

mommy..... can Timmy come over and play in my bubble?

[Triple J]

<raises hand>

I have a question

If the other kids are vaccinated

then what is the risk of being around the non vaccinated kid?

It's kinda like all the kids have rain gear but they cant be around the kid without rain gear cuz they might get wet?

I don't get it

Because vaccines are not 100% effective immediately, and some also wear off after time.

If everyone is vaccinated these vulnerabilities aren't too much of a concern.

But if an un-vaccinated kid comes over, and happens to be infected with whooping cough (as an example) during this vulnerable period, the immunized kid is now at a higher, and unnecessary, risk.

I'd be pissed if my immunized child got a disease (and possibly died) from an unimmunized child in this fashion.

I'm not saying I'd react by not letting my children play with unimmunized children...I don't have kids and would have to think a bit about it. But it is a risk (as are a lot of things).

[B.Rock]

my ex wife was a behavioral therapist for autistic kids and she was adamant about not vaccinating at a young age, as well as not living near power plants or lines.

My kid is vaccinated to avoid things like polio and rubella, there's a 240MW natural gas power plant in town  http://www.deltapower.com/projects/california/crockett.html and power lines connect my house to the grid.

[Bick]

Feed them all PB&J! 

[Mother]

Feed them all PB&J! 

Phil, Brad, and Jeremy?

[Le Pirate]

not necessarily a huge sample set, bro.

there's been no direct evidence found so far, but there are some numbers that suggest there could be a correlation.

my ex wife was a behavioral therapist for autistic kids and she was adamant about not vaccinating at a young age, as well as not living near power plants or lines.

Not going to argue either which way...since I don't have kids.

But IIRC that correlation between vaccines and autism was found between autism and vaccines with high amounts of mercury in them....which are no longer used. Some vaccines still contain miniscule amounts, but no more than a child would absorb from say, eating fish sticks every so often for a year or two...and thus the correlation is become less and less relevant.






just throwing a little more fuel on the fire 

[ducati_tim]

I would keep my kids away because I don't let them hang out with kids whose parents I think are nutty. I am more concerned about the other goofy things that the parents may be up to than I am about the germs.

[Grampa]

I'm Darby Crash....and I do not endorse this thread

[ducati_tim]

I'm Darby Crash....and I do not endorse this thread

[Mother]

But if an un-vaccinated kid comes over, and happens to be infected with whooping cough (as an example) during this vulnerable period, the immunized kid is now at a higher, and unnecessary, risk.

please splain to me the point of the vaccination if it makes child more vulerable to disease



I'm starting to think these shot things are a scam

the amount of old people we xpt to the hospital with the flu after thier flu shot is astounding

[ducatiz]

and for x years before vaccines were created the human species thrived.  I'm sure they'll be all right.

"thrived" is a relative comment.  the life expectancy of a male until the early 20th Century was about 40 ( )

And consider this.

Autism has only been identified in the last 20 years.  Many kids were called "retarded" but were also lumped in with kids who had genetic or birthing-related defects which affected them. 

Vaccinations in western countries began in the early 20th century.  Asian countries did not start until the latter part of the 20th century (after the 70s). 

Incidence of non-genetic/physical mental retardation has been consistent throughout that period.

in other words, you had the same number of "autistic" people before vaccines in both western and asian countries as after.

The "anti vaccination" crowd claims it is mercury (thimerisol) causing the problems, but here is what the FDA says about it:

http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#pres

Thimerosal as a Preservative

Thimerosal, which is approximately 50% mercury by weight, has been one of the most widely used preservatives in vaccines. It is metabolized or degraded to ethylmercury and thiosalicylate. Ethylmercury is an organomercurial that should be distinguished from methylmercury, a related substance that has been the focus of considerable study (see "Guidelines on Exposure to Organomercurials" and "Thimerosal Toxicity", below).

At concentrations found in vaccines, thimerosal meets the requirements for a preservative as set forth by the United States Pharmacopeia; that is, it kills the specified challenge organisms and is able to prevent the growth of the challenge fungi (U.S. Pharmacopeia 2004). Thimerosal in concentrations of 0.001% (1 part in 100,000) to 0.01% (1 part in 10,000) has been shown to be effective in clearing a broad spectrum of pathogens. A vaccine containing 0.01% thimerosal as a preservative contains 50 micrograms of thimerosal per 0.5 mL dose or approximately 25 micrograms of mercury per 0.5 mL dose.

Prior to its introduction in the 1930's, data were available in several animal species and humans providing evidence for its safety and effectiveness as a preservative (Powell and Jamieson 1931). Since then, thimerosal has been the subject of several studies (see Bibliography) and has a long record of safe and effective use preventing bacterial and fungal contamination of vaccines, with no ill effects established other than minor local reactions at the site of injection.

While the use of mercury-containing preservatives has declined in recent years with the development of new products formulated with alternative or no preservatives, thimerosal has been used in some immune globulin preparations, anti-venins, skin test antigens, and ophthalmic and nasal products, in addition to certain vaccines. Under the FDA Modernization Act of 1997, the FDA compiled a list of regulated products containing mercury, including those with thimerosal (Federal Register 1999). It is important to note that this list was compiled in 1999; some products listed are no longer manufactured and many products have been reformulated without thimerosal. Updated lists of vaccines and their thimerosal content can be found in Table 1 (routinely recommended pediatric vaccines) and Table 3 (expanded list of vaccines).

Moreover, as the FDA points out, you can opt to use non-thimerisol vaccines for your child:

http://www.fda.gov/CBER/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

Only a few of them contain it anyhow. 

There is no sane reason to avoid vaccines for a child.  if it's your religion to avoid needles or whatever, fine.  but those people are a tiny minority and will probably die off from diptheria or hepatitis anyhow.

[Triple J]

please splain to me the point of the vaccination if it makes child more vulerable to disease



I'm starting to think these shot things are a scam

the amount of old people we xpt to the hospital with the flu after thier flu shot is astounding

Vaccines don't make people more vulnerable to a disease, obviously. However, children have to be of a certain age to receive certain vaccines...the vaccines themselves aren't 100% effective immediately (actually ever...nothing really is)...and some gradually wear off over time. These are unaviodable vulnerabilities in the vaccine process. If everyone is vaccinated, the risks of these vulnerabilities is minimized. When you introduce unvaccinated children the risk increases. That is the point.

The shots are a scam.  Really?  You know anyone (born in the US in the last 40-50 years) that has ever had measles, mumps, polio, etc.?

The flu shot is a different issue. Different strains for different years and it's a guess what it will be in a given year. Sometimes they guess right...sometimes not. That's my understanding anyway...and the reason I don't get flu shots. The flu isn't that big of a deal anyway...unless you're old, when a lot of things are a big deal.

[Mother]

The shots are a scam.  Really?  You know anyone (born in the US in the last 40-50 years) that has ever had measles, mumps, polio, etc.?

I wasn't being serious 

but yes

Measles and Polio

not the mumps though never even seen it

[ducatiz]

I wasn't being serious 

but yes

Measles and Polio

not the mumps though never even seen it

I have seen ppl with measles and polio too.

Both were in people belonging to religious groups who refuse to vaccinate.