Ducati Monster Forum

Lets not get too fired up here this just a little treatise about what I feel is going on with the brand of motorcycle I love. Some of what I say may be dead wrong but if it is it's because Ducati has led me down that path, see, this is a personal interpretation of the brand as it stands today garnered from interaction with dealers, media and the people who live the Ducati lifestyle.

Ducati lifestyle? What is that? Is that a real or imagined thing? Personally I'd have to say its hogwash (pun intended). Herein lies the problem with direction Ducati is heading right now, Seems they think they are selling shoes, or watches, or perfume… you know, those things that hock a lifestyle rather than the actual product… intangible personifications of fashion that seem to permeate marketing in romance nations.

I don't want nor do I need a lifestyle identity, Ducati. I don't need to be sold - that by owning and riding this motorcycle I'm going to be associated with a hip young rich Italian/Latin crowd that wears all the latest Euro-Latin styles and ignores the best looking girls. I'm a middleclass, middle aged, white American dude who wouldn't hesitate to scrump till dawn if one of those 20-something cuties even hinted at the possibility.

OK I'll admit, a cool vintage looking leather jacket does go along with the bike in a certain way that I find appealing.  But believe me it doesn't make me look in the mirror and utter the words; “Ricco-swavee'…” And if said jacket even hints at Dolce Gabbana anywhere on it …You can keep it.

Ducati is riding a wave here, a wave created and marketed by the American Texas Pacific Group. TPG worked very hard to recreate Ducati in both marketing and in its products and has been very successful. TPG decided to give Ducati's legacy to the public; they started marketing Ducati's racing heritage. TPG dug up the Ducati history books and created the idea of the Ducati museum and had it built in Bologna. And they brought riders like Mike Hailwood and Paul Smart to the forefront of our ideals about Ducati. TPG created a man's legacy, a history of racing to be proud of, something that represents the core product and a reason to be a Ducati rider. But you can be sure - everything you thought you knew about Ducatis racing heritage is at the forefront of the marque because of marketing...


But Now that TPG no longer owns Ducati it seems like the new ownership has abandoned that wave and is heading down a different path, one with soft edged feminine logos and branded everything from computer flash drives to shoes and fashion accessories to bottles of wine! All of this in the name of brand identity and creating a lifestyle.  It really is enough to make the average American Ducatisti spit out his Starbucks double grande macchiato, strip off the Ducati t-shirt, belt buckle, gloves, helmet and jacket and throw his hands in the air exclaiming “I Give up Ducati!” “I can't take it any more!” How can we ever live up to the image? I know I can't.

At this point I am sick of it… Sick of the whole fashionista stinking perfumed and primped facade. And I think it's only a matter of time before the whole thing blows into one big gay Femi costume ball. At this point I'm about ready to chuck the whole brand and start riding a Triumph, at least those guys don't have to stop for a $5 cup of coffee every time they ride!

Would it be possible for Ducati to turn this “biker noir” image around and get back on the board riding the wave created by TPG? Sure, I think Ducati can stop this freefall into the depths of Gala Gran Dama and start selling motorcycles again. TPG had a plan and it was a good one; build great bikes and market the racing, both today's racing and the Ducati legacy… yeah! We can all get behind that.

But first some house cleaning: First and foremost Ducati, stop selling bikes through Neiman Marcus! The very thought of some ridiculous over-moneyed cream puff walking into the department store and buying an over-priced motor-icon with a few extra decals that he or she will never ride just to own the image makes me want to trade all my vehicles for an old pickup truck just to distance myself from the whole idea. Secondly back off on all the branding. A couple of race shirts, some t shirts and some riding gear ought to cover it for most of us. And last, stop the freakin fashion shows, I really want to go to a fashion show like I want …oh-god I'm starting to wretch!

Wuuu that was close… Now that the house cleaning is done lets get down to the business of building and selling motorcycles. I think Ducati is building some of the most desirable motorcycles on the planet but that needs to be good enough, you can leave the lifestyle to us Ducati, we can do fine on our own thank you very much.

Harley called... he wants his hate back

All very good points. I love the bikes but not everything else. You've got to hand it to Ducati though. American men are becoming soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes and Ducati has absolutely nailed the timing on their marketing....  :-* :-* :-* [wine]

FLynbulldog while i agree with you in that i do not like the wine, or the usb drives, or the constant branding of everything you have to understand it is a business.  They are going by the harley example and while harley does sell bikes they make a shit ton of money off of all their harley branded gear.  In my opinion if you don't like it don't buy it.  All the branding doesn't make a ducati bike any less a ducati bike.  If you really are going to start buying triumphs because of something like this your being immature.  Buy a triumph because you like the motorcycle not because your ex "favorite" brand of motorcycle so called "sold out".

As far as i know Ducati is a lot smaller company than the big 4 and to keep up a profit this is one way to do it.  And if ducati is making money our bikes are only to get more and more improvements.  I do agree that some more racing oriented shirts etc. would be nice.

I love my ducati its still a ducati and every time i fire it up i smile.

Aww pooh...
You're just mad that i drink the ducati wine and wear everything ducati....thus proving that I am more ducatista than you.



Of course everything i said above is a lie.

I'm seeing this has helping their bottom line considerably.  It will give them extra income that they don't have from volume sales compared to someone like Honda.  I enjoy some branded merchandise, but I wait until the shop marks it down to 50% or so off.  Because I can't justify the tagged price.  I'm sure a significant part of Harley's income comes through merchandise sales.  Not a bad model for cash-tight companies.  I feel no need for $5 coffee breaks.  I'll just walk over to the gas station and get my plain black joe for $1 or less.  Might even be free if I buy gas there.  They can sell what they wish.  As for the image, sure there may be posers.  I just walk past them wearing my road-weary leathers, throw my leg over my bike and light the motor off.  I feel certain whatever gal he's trying to look cool in front averts her attention long enough to annoy the poser and loose interest for someone that talks the talk, but usually walks the walk first.  I don't need a sex symbol, but it sure is fun to watch heads spin off when I rumble past in my Ducati, wearing leather pants and a crash-scarred coat.  Let Ducati take advantage of the posers with money and those with extra income that'll buy this stuff.  I'll ride mine while they're sipping their $5 coffee.

Maybe I'm just a cheap bastard, seeing as the price for the two bikes I have (not new of course) combined are less than the price of a new 696.

JM

One thing to point out... all these people that buy Ducatis and don't ride them just means the company can continue to do well in the future and that we can continue to ride them.  AND we can all get some good prices on barely ridden used bikes in a few years.   [thumbsup]

Quote from: sroberts152 on February 02, 2009, 11:20:11 AM
One thing to point out... all these people that buy Ducatis and don't ride them just means the company can continue to do well in the future and that we can continue to ride them.  AND we can all get some good prices on barely ridden used bikes in a few years.   [thumbsup]

[thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]  I thnk that's what I was trying to say above [laugh]

JM

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 02, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
At this point I'm about ready to chuck the whole brand and start riding a Triumph, at least those guys don't have to stop for a $5 cup of coffee every time they ride!

So go and buy a Triumph.  [roll] They do make some nice bikes. Last time I rode I don't remember having to stop for a Starbucks.  ???

Quote from: sroberts152 on February 02, 2009, 11:20:11 AM
One thing to point out... all these people that buy Ducatis and don't ride them just means the company can continue to do well in the future and that we can continue to ride them.  AND we can all get some good prices on barely ridden used bikes in a few years.   [thumbsup]

Well put

It's a fair call in what you say but don't forget you are the consumer and you hold the cash.
Don

I don't know about the rest of you, but....


I ride my bike because I like my bike.



I couldn't care less what the company does over there.



If one feels they need to live up to some sort of image because one has been provided....well....you might want to reevaluate things a bit.

Don't worry about how Ducati tries to brand their bikes or their customers.  Turn your monster into a rat-bike or something totally freaky.  Ride like a lunatic.  Or like a grandma.  Don't fix your tank dings.  Use black spraypaint liberally.  Turn your monster into a commuter with Givi bags and a tall windscreen.  Or make it into a trackbike and toss it away with abandon.  Wrench on it, snap bolts and screw things up.  Do whatever the hell you want, but don't spend time being upset about how some company tries to define you.  

I just want to spend my time riding my monster and lovin' it.  And when I meet some of those pretty folks Ducati thinks it's selling its bike to, I leave 'em to their own devices.  <shrug>  

Be your own brand.  [thumbsup]  

Quote from: Spidey on February 02, 2009, 11:57:54 AM
Don't worry about how Ducati tries to brand their bikes or their customers.  Turn your monster into a rat-bike or something totally freaky.  Ride like a lunatic.  Or like a grandma.  Don't fix your tank dings.  Use black spraypaint liberally.  Turn your monster into a commuter with Givi bags and a tall windscreen.  Or make it into a trackbike and toss it away with abandon.  Wrench on it, snap bolts and screw things up.  Do whatever the hell you want, but don't spend time being upset about how some company tries to define you.  

I just want to spend my time riding my monster and lovin' it.  And when I meet some of those pretty folks Ducati thinks it's selling its bike to, I leave 'em to their own devices.  <shrug>  

Be your own brand.  [thumbsup]  

Well put. Spidey.

Quote from: MrIncredible on February 02, 2009, 11:55:36 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but....


I ride my bike because I like my bike.



I couldn't care less what the company does over there.



If one feels they need to live up to some sort of image because one has been provided....well....you might want to reevaluate things a bit.

Nicely put.

Whatever it takes for Ducati to make money, stay in business and keep makes awesome bikes is fine with me.

I'm sorry but I don't fall prey to the Ikea nesting instinct of "what end table best defines me, as a person"

To the OP:  I will give the rant a 9/10.  Well said, and right on track IMO.

mitt

I think it cheapens the brand myself, to have all this extraneous shit being sold with some random logo on it. I guess it helps the bottom line which is great for Ducati but I don't feel as positive about the brand when they're pimping themselves out like they are.

I went to the StreetFighter event at Ducati NY & left before the bike was unveiled because the reset of it was annoying me. Not just the event stuff (although, one of the models was really hot) but it's just become a giant douche-fest.

I've never been that obsessed with the brand though so I doubt I represent Ducati's core market.

On the other hand, Flynbulldog, one could admire TPG for studying a successful motorcycle marquee, analyzing and perceiving its elements, and then emulating the model. And, to my knowledge, Ducati hasn't gone so far as to insist upon elaborate brand-dedicated facilities like Harley Davidson. BMWNA went off in that direction and lost a lot of dealerships. You have to admit that Harley's business model really is interesting and has been a hit for more than a decade now, all this while selling motorcycles that vibrate on purpose.

Compared to the Beemerphile purists, your complaints sound very reasonable.

remember, you dont' hav eto have racing to sell bikes.

afterall bmw sells bikes and a lifestyle image.  they sell tons of clothing with bmw branded stuff on it, both riding and casual, and there they are selling the "bmw brand and lifestyle"

i think ducati is trying to sell that too.. they have the motogp, and if stoner or hayden finishes well then they will have that.  but they are marketing the same things as bmw in a "brand and lifestyle" the only difference is that bmw is seling the image of "quality and functionality and subtleness"

ducati being italian is a bit different, they are selling more the "sexy italian style and image of a 'cool' item"  that is why they have fashion shows.  afterall the thing tha tpeople say about ducati's is that they are "sexy" looking the "916 is a great looking bike" , etc.

mvagusta being italian sells a slightly different slant of ducati in that they sell "exclusivity along with italian cool styling and such"

ducati can't and wont' ever be like bmw or other brands, if they do they will lose their individuality.  

And I would argue that Harley is not respected for pimping themselves out either. At least Ducati makes great, performance oriented up to date bikes.

I don't hate...  but mildly dislike all the things the OP said.  (OK maybe stronger than that...)  Has anyone found any Ducati gear in WalMart yet?  I'd like a $10 Ducati t-shirt now.

Quote from: Bill in OKC on February 02, 2009, 12:58:29 PMHas anyone found any Ducati gear in WalMart yet?  I'd like a $10 Ducati t-shirt now.

I know you're probably joking but that may be closer to reality than most guys here would ever want to see.

Yes - I was joking - please nobody shoot me :)

Quote from: Bill in OKC on February 02, 2009, 12:58:29 PM
I don't hate...  but mildly dislike all the things the OP said.  (OK maybe stronger than that...)  Has anyone found any Ducati gear in WalMart yet?  I'd like a $10 Ducati t-shirt now.

Not Wallmart but a Puma store.  Puma is doing a lot of the clothing - sweat shirts, etc...  I really don't mind that.  I like having nice clothing made by a good company. 

I agree with the original rant but I can't say I disagree with the direction Ducati marketing is taking the company.  In the end, it's still a business where long term profitability and sustainability is still the main focus.  If it takes selling more bikes to softies, who might not ever appreciate what the brand really stands for, in order to generate more profit -> more R&D -> a more competitive bike on the track -> better bike in your garage, then so be it.  You, Ducati, and I will all benefit in the future.

Apple seems to be doing quite well with the iPod, iMac, iTune, and everyone seems to love to i-Life Style.  Ducati had to get on the life-style train so it can appeal to the next generation of consumers...  

Quote from: Bill in OKC on February 02, 2009, 12:58:29 PM
 Has anyone found any Ducati gear in WalMart yet?

Yes, they sell 1:18 scale Ducatis.

Quote from: fasterblkduc on February 02, 2009, 02:51:04 PM

Yes, they sell 1:18 scale Ducatis.

and for that.... I am thakfull

(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/bobspapa/100_1435.jpg?t=1233615423)

[laugh]

And just recently announced - the 696:
http://maisto.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/ducati-696-monster-oh-yes-it-is/ (http://maisto.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/ducati-696-monster-oh-yes-it-is/)

just in case that 1/2 trellis didnt already make it look like a toy...

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 02, 2009, 10:26:45 AM

OK I'll admit, a cool vintage looking leather jacket does go along with the bike in a certain way that I find appealing.  But believe me it doesn't make me look in the mirror and utter the words; “Ricco-swavee'…”

And I think it's only a matter of time before the whole thing blows into one big gay Femi costume ball.

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]


Wonderfully put  [thumbsup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04)

Quote from: bobspapa on February 02, 2009, 03:35:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04)

Noooooooo, flashbacks to my high school days, watching MTV in the afternoon after school...  when MTV actually showed music videos...

By the way, there were other NM Ducatis from the Tamburini days... the Hyper isn't the first.

That said, I'm not crazy about all the branded s#@t either, nor do I give a rat's ass about the fashion shows. But that's just marketing BS pure and simple. But you have to admit (whether you like them or not) Harley has done a kickass job at marketing their crap... call it "Harley lifestyle" crap or whatever. They sell the s#@t out of anything that has HD on it. I bet they make a huge portion of their profits from it. Hey, it's just business. Even my step son's Dad has a Harley magnetic sign on the back of his wife's ??? Tahoe... and you guessed it, he doesn't even own a motorcycle. But eeeewh, he looks SO COOL with it on the car and I'm sure he hopes everyone THINKS he owns a Harley which apparently increases his fake cool factor in his little world. And yes I give him s#@t about it. [thumbsup]  

Twenty bucks says lots of Ducati branded crap gets sold to non bike owners just like the Harley crap does. Who cares. :P As others have said, I'm also bored with it but as long as it keeps the company financially healthy and they keep making great bikes I will just deal with it. Besides I only have a couple of Duc t-shirts and don't need anymore. People will know for a fact that I own Ducatis because they will see me riding mine not wearing a Duc fashion garment at Neiman Marcus. [laugh]

Quote from: herm on February 02, 2009, 03:05:36 PM
just in case that 1/2 trellis didnt already make it look like a toy...

*Ahem*


Motorcycles are toys.

Ha ha Bobspapa, I can't believe you found that video  [clap] I figured the reference would escape most people...
Now it won't for sure  [beer]

Quote from: bobspapa on February 02, 2009, 03:35:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04)

That was real, right? Not just a flashback from a high school 'cid trip?

My 1970 Honda CB350 fires up quicker and idles smoother than the brand new Monster 696.  [bang]

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/kf6vgz/Ducati/IMG_1475.jpg?t=1233622692)

Quote from: Craig Thomas on February 02, 2009, 04:58:58 PM
My 1970 Honda CB350 fires up quicker and idles smoother than the brand new Monster 696.  [bang]

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b5/kf6vgz/Ducati/IMG_1475.jpg?t=1233622692)

Probably the lack of compression from the worn out rings makes it seem smooth. Probably die any day now.


You wanna sell that?

...and that Honda has classic looks.  If the new Monster ages half as well it will be doing OK.

Quote from: Spidey on February 02, 2009, 11:57:54 AM
Don't worry about how Ducati tries to brand their bikes or their customers.  Turn your monster into a rat-bike or something totally freaky.  Ride like a lunatic.  Or like a grandma.  Don't fix your tank dings.  Use black spraypaint liberally.  Turn your monster into a commuter with Givi bags and a tall windscreen.  Or make it into a trackbike and toss it away with abandon.  Wrench on it, snap bolts and screw things up.  Do whatever the hell you want, but don't spend time being upset about how some company tries to define you.  

I just want to spend my time riding my monster and lovin' it.  And when I meet some of those pretty folks Ducati thinks it's selling its bike to, I leave 'em to their own devices.  <shrug>  

Be your own brand.  [thumbsup]  

Spidey,
That is just fan-makes the beast with two backsing-tastic.  I love it.

whats a starbuks??????

what the fuk is mtv?????

Quote from: Craig Thomas on February 02, 2009, 04:58:58 PM
My 1970 Honda CB350 fires up quicker and idles smoother than the brand new Monster 696.  [bang]

probably has a much simpler fuel delivery system and far less exhaust restriction

but it looks like hell.. crank is probably shot, they always run best when the crank is about to die.

what to sell it?

vote with your dollar.  But as said above, and I think we had a similar discussion on TOB, if it contributes to them being able to make better bikes, rebrand anything you want.

I'm waiting for a ducati coffin, like the KISS one.



Andy

This thread made me reflect and really think about why I recently decided to pull the trigger and buy a Ducati after riding japanese bikes my whole life... And it really boils down to the actual motorcycles they build.  All the other peripheral crap is exactly that--peripheral.   Seeing ducs on the street and racing on tv over the years was pretty neat, but the first time I saw e. boz in person on the 999 at daytona in '04 I was hooked. Then seeing over 1000 (perhaps a couple thousand) examples of ducs at laguna seca's ducati island every year... I came to the conclusion I couldn't take it anymore.  So, I bought  one! it has exceeded my expectations, so far.  I haven't had this fun on a motorcycle in a LONG time!

The buying experience was unlike any other, too. I bought my monster from AMS dallas. jeff nash is a first class owner, and his reputation is deserved, in my opinion.  I'm the common everyday dopey bike owner, and jeff treated me first class. very humble dude.

You'll eventually succumb to having your triumph parked next to all the ducs and think, "what was I thinking"  [bow_down]

Let me know if you're looking in Summer, I'm probably going to be selling the s2r so I can go to europe before school and my life is over.   ;D [popcorn] [clap] [moto] [thumbsup] :'(

patroldawg,

Yo dude, your profile doesn't say much about you but I live in the DFW area and live and breath Jeff and AMS. I can only assume you live close to here to have done business with AMS. We have a very freaking active board on the DFWM section of this board. Check in with us please. We would love to have the extra company to anything we do. Rides, lunches, Super Bowl parties, more rides, dinners, happy hours, etc. ... it goes on forever. If you are nearby please chime in with us on the DFWM board and show up for whatever. [thumbsup] Hope to see you soon!!

I must say that the "Fashion Shows" with the boy band dancers are a disgrace to everything moto.  Wretched. [puke]  I was literally embarrassed the first time I saw that crap.  I couldn't help but think "Is this a kick-ass-and-take-names motorbike company or a fuking teeny bopper party?  Maybe they don't realize it but my 13 year old step sister isn't considering buying a Ducati.  She's not inside their target market.

isnt that the way things are over there? Trendy?

I mean a lot of people like to put the tag "european standards" on their items. It seems Ducati is doing that as well.

Quote from: patroldawg on February 02, 2009, 08:17:26 PM
This thread made me reflect and really think about why I recently decided to pull the trigger and buy a Ducati after riding japanese bikes my whole life... And it really boils down to the actual motorcycles they build.  All the other peripheral crap is exactly that--peripheral.   Seeing ducs on the street and racing on tv over the years was pretty neat, but the first time I saw e. boz in person on the 999 at daytona in '04 I was hooked. Then seeing over 1000 (perhaps a couple thousand) examples of ducs at laguna seca's ducati island every year... I came to the conclusion I couldn't take it anymore.  So, I bought  one! it has exceeded my expectations, so far.  I haven't had this fun on a motorcycle in a LONG time!

The buying experience was unlike any other, too. I bought my monster from AMS dallas. jeff nash is a first class owner, and his reputation is deserved, in my opinion.  I'm the common everyday dopey bike owner, and jeff treated me first class. very humble dude.

too bad some of the people Jeff has working for him (Scott in Dallas specifically) aren't the same type of people.

I watched that whole video and absolutely NO ducatis.... now to find those 80's chicks... tight jeans, WHERE ARE MY TIGHT JEANS, MOM!!!!!

Great trip down memory lane.

Seriously though, the Ducati brand is good for the company.  Most of us don't buy everything Ducati nor do we live in a Ducati house.  If you don't like the stereotype that is going along with it, then maybe you want to find another company that's not trying to build a brand.  In the end, I dont mind be confused for a good looking guy that oozes sex appeal, even if they are 80s chicks.  Fortunately the redneck, beer-drinking, bar-fighting, tattoo branding was already taken.  Count your blessings!   ;D

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 02, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
I don't want nor do I need a lifestyle identity, Ducati. I don't need to be sold - that by owning and riding this motorcycle I'm going to be associated with a hip young rich Italian/Latin crowd that wears all the latest Euro-Latin styles and ignores the best looking girls. I'm a middleclass, middle aged, white American dude who wouldn't hesitate to scrump till dawn if one of those 20-something cuties even hinted at the possibility.

OK I'll admit, a cool vintage looking leather jacket does go along with the bike in a certain way that I find appealing.  But believe me it doesn't make me look in the mirror and utter the words; “Ricco-swavee'…” And if said jacket even hints at Dolce Gabbana anywhere on it …You can keep it.

???? , WTF, ????, It's no longer the 1970's pops. Ducati is first an Italian brand, second a world brand. Look outside of your tiny bubble.

The whole marketing "plan" is misguided at best. The whole concept of trying to recreate this perfect marketing scheme that Harley has been credited with is basically...wrong. First, Harley didn't create the demand for their product by hiring some Madison Avenue genius. The demand was there, it was there first, for whatever reason the appeal of riding a Harley, being the "rebel" is a formula that couldn't be created by a marketing team. The reason Vaughn Beals and his team bought Harley from AMF was because they knew that in all the world, only two brands have such strong name recognition that just licensing the logo would generate large sums of cash. Coca Cola and Harley Davidson. Harley did maximize the potential and really did an excellent job of enhancing and exploiting the brand recognition to its fullest. But...if Ducati or any other motorcycle company thinks that success can be duplicated by ads, fashion shows, or whoring out the name on consumer goods, they will fail. Miserably. Ducati saw their core market as middle-aged white men, and needed to find a way to get 20 somethings off their GSXRs, CBRs, etc. and onto Ducatis. This is where the whole "damn you're so cool if you own one of these" scheme came from. From the notion that if you ride a Ducati, you're one of the cool kids. It won't work, not in the long run. Sure they can create a short span where the hype will entice the fickle fashionistas, and the band wagon jumpers to drink the kool aide. But eventually the limited success they build will be the downfall, as they sell more product they will lose one of the main objects of desire they were selling. The limited availability, the idea that the owner was one of the few lucky enough to be in the in-crowd. The targeted market section will move on to the next greatest thing. Icons are slow to evolve, and rare.

I for one will do my own thing and keep on riding the bike until it can`t go no more, to hell with all this image shit [thumbsup]

@desmodue

The angle that Ducati are currently taking is to reduce the number of bikes sold, increase the average price (and margin) and remove the low end bikes from the range (have you noticed that the 696 is the only bike they sell for less than $10k?).

The fashion items and cups (wallets, glasses, co-branded bags, hats, money clips, watches, etc, etc.) are selling the exclusivity of the brand to people who want to feel like they're part of the club but that strategy doesn't every actually put more people on Ducatis or reduce the price of Ducatis. It increases the profit margin of Ducati the company.

If they get it right (no forgone conclusion of course), they can have their cake and eat it too.

There was a good quote in the latest cycleworld with respect to the latest review of the guzzi griso.  Something along the lines of "at least one Italian company hasn't gone completely mainstream and still has its quirks"

mitt

This whole thread and 'brand' idea reminds me of a favorite little quote.....  

You're not your job.  You're not how much money you have in the bank.  You're not the car you drive.  You're not the contents of your wallet.  You're not your make the beast with two backsing khakis.  You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

Quote from: mitt on February 03, 2009, 07:01:24 AM
There was a good quote in the latest cycleworld with respect to the latest review of the guzzi griso.  Something along the lines of "at least one Italian company hasn't gone completely mainstream and still has its quirks"

mitt

that's an interesting way of looking at it.

on the other hand, i bet Guzzi would love to have Ducati's sales numbers. 

And service quality... I looked at a Griso and the sales guy actually talked me out of it by saying they had one in their shop they had been waiting for a part on for 6 months from Guzzi.  6 Months of having my bike down?  No thank you. 

Quote from: NvrSummer on February 03, 2009, 07:05:18 AM
This whole thread and 'brand' idea reminds me of a favorite little quote.....  

You're not your job.  You're not how much money you have in the bank.  You're not the car you drive.  You're not the contents of your wallet.  You're not your make the beast with two backsing khakis.  You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.

Someone is not obeying the first rule...

Quote from: mitt on February 03, 2009, 07:01:24 AM
There was a good quote in the latest cycleworld with respect to the latest review of the guzzi griso.  Something along the lines of "at least one Italian company hasn't gone completely mainstream and still has its quirks"

mitt

You can't please moto journalists. First they pregnant dog about the "quirks"...then they pregnant dog when the "quirks" are reduced. WTF?

Personally I'll take a quirk-free bike. Quirk means pain in the ass. I just want something reliable, fun to ride, great to look at, and with a superb sound. All of my Ducs have satisifed that so far.  [thumbsup]

Quote from: sroberts152 on February 03, 2009, 08:17:02 AM
And service quality... I looked at a Griso and the sales guy actually talked me out of it by saying they had one in their shop they had been waiting for a part on for 6 months from Guzzi.  6 Months of having my bike down?  No thank you. 

well, that is the problem with having a niche bike..  Ducati has the same problems and they are bigger than guzzi.

don't want your bike down -- EVER?  buy a honda.

Guzzis are awesome bikes though.  That engine is pretty impressive and I've browsed them on fleabay quite a bit, I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike, alas my garage is full...  ;D

Quote from: Triple J on February 03, 2009, 08:21:37 AM
You can't please moto journalists. First they pregnant dog about the "quirks"...then they pregnant dog when the "quirks" are reduced. WTF?

they sound like typical people to me! 

QuotePersonally I'll take a quirk-free bike. Quirk means pain in the ass. I just want something reliable, fun to ride, great to look at, and with a superb sound. All of my Ducs have satisifed that so far.  [thumbsup]

quirky could be issues with reliability or it could be design.. i assumed the guzzi=quirk meant they were still hanging on to their design (transverse 90 deg vtwin) rather than going with a parallel, or I3/I4

i know Honda makes other than I2/I4 bikes, but they don't make too many now -- maybe a Honda-harly Vtwin?

Quote from: sally101 on February 03, 2009, 08:21:34 AM
Someone is not obeying the first rule...

"Do no harm???"

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 08:26:32 AM

I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike,

+1 - that is my current thinking also if I find the right one for sale.

mitt

Quote from: sally101 on February 03, 2009, 08:21:34 AM
Someone is not obeying the first rule...

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 08:35:13 AM
"Do no harm???"

I thought it was "Ape shall not kill ape", but I digress.

And Guzzis have always been a little too... agrarian for my tastes.

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 08:28:42 AM

quirky could be issues with reliability or it could be design.. i assumed the guzzi=quirk meant they were still hanging on to their design (transverse 90 deg vtwin) rather than going with a parallel, or I3/I4

In that case, ducati is as quirky as ever. Our 2-valve 90 degree twins with desmo valve action aren't exactly new!  ;D

Quote from: Rotten Randy on February 02, 2009, 10:59:52 AM
All very good points. I love the bikes but not everything else. You've got to hand it to Ducati though. American men are becoming soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes and Ducati has absolutely nailed the timing on their marketing....  :-* :-* :-* [wine]

Clearly,  whoever views Ducati riders as "soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes" has not seen your avatar.

Quote from: mitt on February 03, 2009, 08:40:09 AM
+1 - that is my current thinking also if I find the right one for sale.

mitt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW943Y7EEGQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW943Y7EEGQ)

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on February 03, 2009, 08:55:09 AM

I thought it was "Ape shall must not kill ape", but I digress.

fixed

Ducati has been trying the "lifestyle" marketing thing for a while.  It's nothing new -- CocaCola became filthy rich after they realized people would actually PAY for a T-shirt with "COCA-COLA" written on it.

I see no problme with Ducati doing it as long as they have SOME restraint, but I can't say how that restraint must go.

if ducati's plans to keep their bikes low volume/high price works, then having a Ducati t-shirt might be all some folks can afford!

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 08:26:32 AM
well, that is the problem with having a niche bike..  Ducati has the same problems and they are bigger than guzzi.

don't want your bike down -- EVER?  buy a honda.

Guzzis are awesome bikes though.  That engine is pretty impressive and I've browsed them on fleabay quite a bit, I may buy an older one and mod it out for a cafe bike, alas my garage is full...  ;D

I don't expect NO downtime.  I also don't expect 6 months of down time.  6 months of pay insurance and the loan.  6 months of my gear sitting in the garage collecting dust.  That amount of time is unreasonable. 

Quote from: sroberts152 on February 03, 2009, 09:47:28 AM
I don't expect NO downtime.  I also don't expect 6 months of down time.  6 months of pay insurance and the loan.  6 months of my gear sitting in the garage collecting dust.  That amount of time is unreasonable. 

Suspend your insurance.  Tell them the bike is in the shop for an extended period and you want to keep the same coverage but suspend it.  Most will do it no problem.  they will send you a letter.

Tell the dealer to get your warranty extended (I had a similar situation and got an extension).

Buy another bike.

I have been thinking about this discussion for a couple of days now.  As I rode in to work, a few thoughts came to my mind and I thought I'd share with you.  

The discussion has been centered around the fact that Ducati has expanded its marketing and branding effect to broaden its reach to future customers.  Some of the tactics and branding choices might have been a little bit "too far out there" to the liking of core Ducati owners, whose focus and preference would be on the company's core confidency - technological advancement and race track performance.  Our fear is that, with the marketing campaign, Ducati would push out more bikes to those well-offs who would buy into the brand, for the image, without real appreciation for the bikes, therefore, soften and cheapen the brand.

Personally, I would compare Ducati to Porsche and Ferrari, our automobile equivalents.  They are all, relatively speaking, very low volume with a higher price tag, tailored to a niche market.  They all built their brands on racing success and take pride in being the on the edge of technology, which is justified with the price tag.  But whether you agree or not, they have also built a very strong brand image, or lifestyle if you will, that continue to draw in customers and convince them to fork over the $$$.  Whether it's the image of pretty boy metrosexual or the racing pedigree, I think we all bought into it.  I certainly did (how silly of me to think that a Monster can even compare to Bayliss' SBK or Stoner's GP bike on the race track).  But in the end, sales and marketing certainly did its job and Ducati, Porsche, and Ferrari are all very good at what they do.

As a small manufacturer, Ducati can't approach marketing the same way big manufacturers do, like the Japanese 4.  Ducati has to create the revenue stream by charging premium to whom ever is willing to pay.  If it takes fashion shows and creating a fantasy for people to buy into, that's what they have to do.  How else can they continue to dump money into WSBK and MotoGP and compete against the Japanese 4 which sell bikes by the millions?  

If you want to talk about the image being cheapen and soften by posers and walmart merchandise, I don't think we have to worry about that.  Just look at who's buying Porsches and Ferraris....  Racing and car ethusists?  Definitely.  Old farts, middle aged doctors, lawyers, fund managers?  A lot of those.  Suburbia trophy wives going 50 in 55?  I see that, too.  But when people see a Porsche or a Ferrari, they know what these cars are and what they stand for.  I would say the same with Ducatis, too.  I just hope that Ducati continues its success and keep on winning on the race track and keep on rolling out awesome bikes.  

Just my 2 cents.  Cheers

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 09:50:17 AM


Buy another bike.

That's the solution I intend to go with, and soon  ;D. My garage is not yet full.

"The angle that Ducati are currently taking is to reduce the number of bikes sold, increase the average price (and margin) and remove the low end bikes from the range (have you noticed that the 696 is the only bike they sell for less than $10k?)."

According to an interview with Michael Locke, Ducati NA president, this is not the case.
He said that he sees a Ducati as something any biker should be able to afford and get.
He compared Ducati to Porsche in this respect, and said that they in no way want to become an ultra exclusive brand more in the vein of Ferrari.

Looking at the models of Porsche vs Ferrari is a telling one. One company lives on a history of inovation and racing victories and a current prodcut line of average quality that tries to appeal to and become attainable to everyone. The other has as deep a history but a continuing racing tradition and current models of exceptional quality, performance and exclusivity. While they are both cool, which one would you rather own and drive.

While I can see the purpose of this marketing philosphy, I can tell you one thing is a guarantee. If they shuold try to make Ducatis something for the masses the quailty will suffer. The scale of production there allows the company to keep closer tabs on QC then they could at a much higher number of units produced. To step up to the level he is talking about would require a major investment in production and staffing, and in these times of constantly shifting economies that doesn't look like money well spent.

I for one have allways lusted after Ducs from the first ride on a buds 900ss in the early 90's. I rode all the latest and fastest Japanese bikes and I can say for sure that I enjoy riding my simple 620 as much as I did any of those. There is an intrinsic value that Ducati's brand has, and that is a result of the people and products, the events and things that have brought them to this point in time.

While I enjoy being able to buy some cool branded stuff, there is a line that they seem to cross every now and then. And I can understand where the argument of more stuff means cheaper bikes and a more profitable company, but it does feel like they're selling out sometimes.

I don't have an answer for to how to walk that fine line between the heritage and the whims of the market and the need for more money, if I did I would apply for Lockes job myself, but I hope that the suits at Ducati can figure out how to walk it for a long time.

jimi

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on February 03, 2009, 08:55:09 AM
I thought it was "Ape shall not kill ape", but I digress.

No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them.  :P

The yin and yang of Ducati...
http://www.philaphoto.com/images/Ducati-Feb09/index.html (http://www.philaphoto.com/images/Ducati-Feb09/index.html)

I for one, assuming most non riders as well, never heard of Ducati cameras, shoes, or bikinis until my visit to the dealers and prowling this board.

Quote from: sally101 on February 03, 2009, 11:44:43 AM
No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them.  :P

No worries sally, I picked it up.  Another good one considering how much time we all spend here!!!   [cheeky]

"The things you own end up owning you.  It's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything."

Quote from: wantingaduc on February 03, 2009, 11:22:01 AM

While I can see the purpose of this marketing philosphy, I can tell you one thing is a guarantee. If they shuold try to make Ducatis something for the masses the quailty will suffer. The scale of production there allows the company to keep closer tabs on QC then they could at a much higher number of units produced.

Are you saying their product is better because they make less of them?

Quote from: Raux on February 02, 2009, 09:59:34 PM
too bad some of the people Jeff has working for him (Scott in Dallas specifically) aren't the same type of people.

agreed! that dude rubbed me wrong as well...

Quote from: wantingaduc on February 03, 2009, 11:22:01 AMAccording to an interview with Michael Locke, Ducati NA president, this is not the case.
He said that he sees a Ducati as something any biker should be able to afford and get.

He may well say that but it's not reflected in their pricing.

Ducati Monster 696: $8,995

Ducati Monster 1100: $11,995
Ducati Monster 1100 S: $13,995
Ducati Streetfighter: $14,995
Ducati Streetfighter S: $18,995
Ducati Multistrada 1100 S: $14,495
Ducati Hypermotard 1100: $11,995
Ducati Hypermotard 1100 S: $14,495
Ducati 848: $13,995
Ducati 1198: $16,495
Ducati 1198 S: $21,795
Ducati SportClassic GT 1000 Touring: $11,995
Ducati SportClassic Sport 1000: $11,995
Ducati SportClassic Sport 1000 S: $12,995

Ducati 1098 R Bayliss LE $43,995.00

Ignoring the outliers for a second, the average price is somewhere around $14,600, so $15,000. I think many Ducatisti can afford that but most bikers? I think not. Back on TOB a Ducati strategy document was discovered and discussed. The plan was to remove all entry level bikes except one and push the margins and prices up. That's exactly what they've done, whether they're saying that or not is beside the point.

Quote from: sally101 on February 03, 2009, 11:44:43 AM
No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them.  :P

well, the problem is that there are plenty of "first rule" myths

star trek
fight club
Isle of Dr Moro
Planet of the Apes
etc etc

MrIn

What I'm saying is that for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.

Citing the example of the 2 companies, Porsche and Ferrari is a perfect example.
Porsche makes a lot more cars (although still a small amount in terms of most manufactures) and they are of good quality.
Ferrari makes fewer cars and their overall product quality is higher.

GM makes a s load of cars that are mostly poor quality in relation to the other 2.
Honda makes a lot of cas, and most are of high quality, but look at the amount of time and money have been invested in making sure that the production line quality is as high as they can make it in order to maintain their standards.

Now keep in mind there are variables like price etc, but I'm talking about a comparison of quality to production.

When a company decides to ramp up production they have 2 options.

Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality or
make more of the product and allow the chips to fall where they may in terms of quality.

There are numerous companies that make vast quantities of a specific product that are of high quality, but when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.

jimi

I think your right and your wrong.   I read this post expecting something else entirely.  My ducati experience has been a mixed bag.  The GM of a very highly rated/well known store treated me like shit for needing warranty work and not buying the bike from him (didn't even have my bike when I was looking).  The sales guy who sold me my bike was indiferent at best, and not at all helpful.   Ducati NA hasn't been over whelming either (aforementioned warranty work).   Basically they have all made me feel like I don't belong in there elite club.

That being said every tech I have spoken with has been honest, helpful, and very cool to me.  

I came from Harley.  Harley bent over backwards for me in the 5 years I rode their bike.  When my business failed and I was late on payments for two years, they went out of their way to help me keep my bike.  The local HD shop has been more helpful and cool about my Duc then either of the Duc stores I have worked with. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if Ducati took a page from the HD customer care playbook.

I love this bike and I love the fellow riders.  This board has made it plausible
For me to keep this bike.  

I love the fashionista qualities of my bike, even if it means that she's a little quirky and high maitenance, all the beautful women in my life have been.

I even kinda like the pumas & track jackets, though I ain't buying them.  I can do without the truck, wine and USB.  

you have to rember 10/15 years ago no one had heard of Ducati.  It was for conisuers only, the company made little money and most of us wouldn't be riding the if they hadn't tried to branch out and make themselves more assesible to us.   I think that fashionista mind set gave us the stylish bikes we are riding, and as long as quality keeps getting better, I'm down with them trying new things and making more money.  Ducati is still small enough that we feel like we own a piece of it.   I don't think shoes are going to change that.

I don't understand how a $9000 bike can be considered exclusive and is compared to a Porsche and/or Ferrari.  That just doesn't make sense to me.   I also don't recall Ferrari or Porsche announcing a logo change to "celebrate" the thrill of their rides.  [roll]

To the OP, if you don't like "image" Ducati is selling with their Marketing strategies get another bike.   [thumbsup]

Quote from: wantingaduc on February 03, 2009, 01:21:49 PM
MrIn

What I'm saying is that for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.

Citing the example of the 2 companies, Porsche and Ferrari is a perfect example.
Porsche makes a lot more cars (although still a small amount in terms of most manufactures) and they are of good quality.
Ferrari makes fewer cars and their overall product quality is higher.

jimi

Define "Quality" in this instance. Is it better performance? Reliability? A combination? AKA, on what basis do you claim that Ferrari is a higher quality product than Porsche?

Wow, lots of posts in a short timespan...

First, I agree with the OP in spirit.  The company is perhaps going overboard on marketing.

Second, my local shop is not all about the accesories.  Sure they have them and are more than happy to sell them to you, but they would much rather sell a bike or performance component.  They sell Ducati because they believe in the product, not the accesories or lifestyle.  You can see this in the other lines they offer - KTM (High quality "ready to race"), Triumph (unique design and broad model range), and Suzuki (Rounds out the model line to compete with the other local shops).   That is a pretty broad portfolio of bikes they believe in.  They will not sell you something they do not themselves believe to be a superior product.

And finally, some people really do get into the whole lifestyle thing.  There were plenty of people (including myself) hanging around Ducati island at the Indy GP.  Absolutely the best party going at the track.  Perhaps the espresso shots were a bit cheesy, didn't stop me from having some.  The bikes on display certainly had more credibility than the Yamaha Bling tent  [puke] .

If the end result is a profitable manufacturer in turbulent economic times, Bravo!   [moto] 

Quote from: MrIncredible on February 03, 2009, 03:08:57 PM
Define "Quality" in this instance. Is it better performance? Reliability? A combination? AKA, on what basis do you claim that Ferrari is a higher quality product than Porsche?

I agree with your question...

To do the "Southpark thing" and push a premise to the extreme to emphasize a point:
A Top Fuel dragster could be considered "higher quality" than a Chevy Aveo.
But which one will last longer?

I would bet a Porche will go much farther than a Ferrari on the same amount of maintenance.
Why?
Because Porche make MORE cars and has a longer product run to work the bugs out.

The 1098/1198/848 platform is a great bike -but if you heard the stories of the first few thousand made
-and the problems that were experienced with them-
**and they only produced those first bikes** 
-you would probably be not-so-impressed with them.
But they WERE produced in number, and that number has the power to increase quality over time.

Low production and first-run items are going to have quality flaws.
Items that are super-high performance are going to have life/quality/performance issues that to all but .005% of consumers are unacceptable.

Good point Rich. [thumbsup]

Quote from: ItalianHarley on February 03, 2009, 03:03:33 PM
I don't understand how a $9000 bike can be considered exclusive and is compared to a Porsche and/or Ferrari.  That just doesn't make sense to me.   I also don't recall Ferrari or Porsche announcing a logo change to "celebrate" the thrill of their rides.  [roll]

To the OP, if you don't like "image" Ducati is selling with their Marketing strategies get another bike.   [thumbsup]

Porsche produced the boxster

Ducati produced the Monster.

Ducati also produced the Desmosedici and the 1098R and S models.  Not $9000.

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 03:52:55 PM
Porsche produced the boxster

Ducati produced the Monster.

Ducati also produced the Desmosedici and the 1098R and S models.  Not $9000.

??? ??? ???

MSRP on a Monster 696 is $8,995.  How is that exclusive?

MSRP on a Porche Boxster is $46,600...somewhat exclusive.

A $9000 hat is exclusive, a $9000 couch is exclusive to some, a $9000 bike could also be exclusive. Compared to other bikes on the market for around $9k, what you get for your money isn't exactly apples to apples. There are intangible and subjective aspects to any bike purchase, to some people a 696 is worth $9k to some it's not. I'd suggest that more people think it's not worth that than think it is. Therefore it is exclusive and they only get more expensive from there.

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 02, 2009, 06:13:57 PM
probably has a much simpler fuel delivery system and far less exhaust restriction

but it looks like hell.. crank is probably shot, they always run best when the crank is about to die.

what to sell it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UaSOtn-1eYw (http://youtube.com/watch?v=UaSOtn-1eYw)

yup.... it's a turd. You should sell it..... cheap

8)

I'll give ya fiddy bucks

Quote from: ItalianHarley on February 03, 2009, 04:03:01 PM
??? ??? ???

MSRP on a Monster 696 is $8,995.  How is that exclusive?

MSRP on a Porche Boxster is $46,600...somewhat exclusive.

average price on cars and bikes is different.

a $40,000 bike is on the high end, but a $40,000 car is pretty common. 

Average price of a car nowadays is $28,400 (http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut11.shtm).  $46,000 isn't that crazy out of range

Quote from: ItalianHarley on February 03, 2009, 04:03:01 PM
??? ??? ???

MSRP on a Monster 696 is $8,995.  How is that exclusive?

MSRP on a Porche Boxster is $46,600...somewhat exclusive.

Because it's a nine thousand dollar toy. It is not an everyday commuter, save for a few of us in the wamrer states, but primarily, it's money tossed down a hole. It's leathers, it's riding classes, it's track days, it's a toy hauler, and it sits 6 months a year doing nothing but eating bike payments and insurance.


For the most part-people do not buy nine thousand dollar toys and consider it a bargain. You can get something that needs less, probably more dependable, for a lot less.

So many things written in this thread that are misguided, it is hard to read.

But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

I would say that Ferrari is more hand made than a Porsche, but craftsmanship does not equal quality.

mitt

Quote from: EvilSteve on February 03, 2009, 06:13:13 AM
@desmodue

The angle that Ducati are currently taking is to reduce the number of bikes sold, increase the average price (and margin) and remove the low end bikes from the range (have you noticed that the 696 is the only bike they sell for less than $10k?).

The fashion items and cups (wallets, glasses, co-branded bags, hats, money clips, watches, etc, etc.) are selling the exclusivity of the brand to people who want to feel like they're part of the club but that strategy doesn't every actually put more people on Ducatis or reduce the price of Ducatis. It increases the profit margin of Ducati the company.

If they get it right (no forgone conclusion of course), they can have their cake and eat it too.

The Board of Directors 2008-2010 industrial plan...increase 2010 sales by 30% as compared to 2007 sales.
   "Registrations of motorcycles will increase from 40.761 bikes in 2007 to 54.000 in 2010"

Charge more, use cheaper components, and increase the production line speed to increase profits...
"focus on price premium, margins and internal efficiency to improve financial results"

Sell the same bike for more years with little or no improvement each year...
"focus on development and management of product's life-cycle"

License the name to anyone who will write a check. Ducati wine? sure. Ducati shoes? ubetcha. Ducati anal lube? see your authorized dealer...
"exploit brand's potential to increase the accessories and apparel businesses and
licensing revenues"


http://www.ducati.com/company/pr_eng_2443_0_price_sensitive_press_release_160108.pdf (http://www.ducati.com/company/pr_eng_2443_0_price_sensitive_press_release_160108.pdf)

Quote from: desmodue on February 03, 2009, 07:03:19 PM
Ducati anal lube? see your authorized dealer...

[evil]  [evil]

SIGN ME UP!

hell, they'd sell 3,837 tubes to the DMF alone.

Quote from: Statler on February 03, 2009, 07:34:04 PM
hell, they'd sell 3,837 tubes to the DMF alone.

or 3837 / 2 ?  rofl

Quote from: sally101 on February 03, 2009, 11:44:43 AM
No no no.. The original quote was from Fight Club.. My responses to obscure references seem a lot less clever when I have to explain them.  :P

Ahem.

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on February 02, 2009, 12:14:52 PM
I'm sorry but I don't fall prey to the Ikea nesting instinct of "what end table best defines me, as a person"

Anyone can quote fight club.  A Return to the Planet of the Apes reference takes real skill  [laugh]

Back on topic: Odd that people view a 30K car as a commodity, but a $30K bike is exclusive. I've always viewed both as more or less equivalent*. And the fact that a 30K bike is far more exciting than the car equivalent is just more proof that cars suck.

Then again, a $30K airplane is bottom of the line...

*(disclaimer: this view is a result of living in CA. And predates my need to haul my wife, two kids and a dog around)

Quote from: Drunken Monkey on February 03, 2009, 08:30:05 PM
Anyone can quote fight club.  A Return to the Planet of the Apes reference takes real skill  [laugh]

i have them all on LaserDisc, the only reason i keep the damn thing around.

QuoteBack on topic: Odd that people view a 30K car as a commodity, but a $30K bike is exclusive. I've always viewed both as more or less equivalent*. And the fact that a 30K bike is far more exciting than the car equivalent is just more proof that cars suck.

I don't think they are equivalent.  a 30k car is just getting a decent car wheras 30k for a bike gets you a new 1198S plus upgrades.

Quote from: Statler on February 03, 2009, 07:34:04 PM
hell, they'd sell 3,837 tubes to the DMF alone.

I think it's time for a GROUP BUY!  I bet we can get a hellufa deal. 

I wonder if the any market research guy from Ducati Corp is reading this.  If you are out there, Mr. Market Research Guy, please tell the Corporate suits to continue building great bikes and don't change the special sauce!  [thumbsup]

I wish clothing on Ducati licensed stuff was cheaper, I mean, who pays $100 for a sweater?  wait a minute.....I did  [bang] [bang] [bang]
Every major manufacturer has gone to clothing and accessories to increase their bottom line, Harley perfected the game and now everyone is following their lead.  I don't hate Ducati for this but if they bottom line increases why not push some good fortune to bring down the price of the bikes..........just a bit damnit. 

My complaint is my lust for Ducs is lessening because they are starting to look like Jap bikes.

But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

Quote from: wantingaduc on February 04, 2009, 09:23:06 AM
But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

I'm not sure you guys are arguing the same topic  ;)

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 02, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
Lets not get too fired up here this just a little treatise about what I feel is going on with the brand of motorcycle I love. Some of what I say may be dead wrong but if it is it's because Ducati has led me down that path, see, this is a personal interpretation of the brand as it stands today garnered from interaction with dealers, media and the people who live the Ducati lifestyle.

Ducati lifestyle? What is that? Is that a real or imagined thing? Personally I'd have to say its hogwash (pun intended). Herein lies the problem with direction Ducati is heading right now, Seems they think they are selling shoes, or watches, or perfume… you know, those things that hock a lifestyle rather than the actual product… intangible personifications of fashion that seem to permeate marketing in romance nations.

I don't want nor do I need a lifestyle identity, Ducati. I don't need to be sold - that by owning and riding this motorcycle I'm going to be associated with a hip young rich Italian/Latin crowd that wears all the latest Euro-Latin styles and ignores the best looking girls. I'm a middleclass, middle aged, white American dude who wouldn't hesitate to scrump till dawn if one of those 20-something cuties even hinted at the possibility.

OK I'll admit, a cool vintage looking leather jacket does go along with the bike in a certain way that I find appealing.  But believe me it doesn't make me look in the mirror and utter the words; “Ricco-swavee'…” And if said jacket even hints at Dolce Gabbana anywhere on it …You can keep it.

Ducati is riding a wave here, a wave created and marketed by the American Texas Pacific Group. TPG worked very hard to recreate Ducati in both marketing and in its products and has been very successful. TPG decided to give Ducati's legacy to the public; they started marketing Ducati's racing heritage. TPG dug up the Ducati history books and created the idea of the Ducati museum and had it built in Bologna. And they brought riders like Mike Hailwood and Paul Smart to the forefront of our ideals about Ducati. TPG created a man's legacy, a history of racing to be proud of, something that represents the core product and a reason to be a Ducati rider. But you can be sure - everything you thought you knew about Ducatis racing heritage is at the forefront of the marque because of marketing...


But Now that TPG no longer owns Ducati it seems like the new ownership has abandoned that wave and is heading down a different path, one with soft edged feminine logos and branded everything from computer flash drives to shoes and fashion accessories to bottles of wine! All of this in the name of brand identity and creating a lifestyle.  It really is enough to make the average American Ducatisti spit out his Starbucks double grande macchiato, strip off the Ducati t-shirt, belt buckle, gloves, helmet and jacket and throw his hands in the air exclaiming “I Give up Ducati!” “I can't take it any more!” How can we ever live up to the image? I know I can't.

At this point I am sick of it… Sick of the whole fashionista stinking perfumed and primped facade. And I think it's only a matter of time before the whole thing blows into one big gay Femi costume ball. At this point I'm about ready to chuck the whole brand and start riding a Triumph, at least those guys don't have to stop for a $5 cup of coffee every time they ride!

Would it be possible for Ducati to turn this “biker noir” image around and get back on the board riding the wave created by TPG? Sure, I think Ducati can stop this freefall into the depths of Gala Gran Dama and start selling motorcycles again. TPG had a plan and it was a good one; build great bikes and market the racing, both today's racing and the Ducati legacy… yeah! We can all get behind that.

But first some house cleaning: First and foremost Ducati, stop selling bikes through Neiman Marcus! The very thought of some ridiculous over-moneyed cream puff walking into the department store and buying an over-priced motor-icon with a few extra decals that he or she will never ride just to own the image makes me want to trade all my vehicles for an old pickup truck just to distance myself from the whole idea. Secondly back off on all the branding. A couple of race shirts, some t shirts and some riding gear ought to cover it for most of us. And last, stop the freakin fashion shows, I really want to go to a fashion show like I want …oh-god I'm starting to wretch!

Wuuu that was close… Now that the house cleaning is done lets get down to the business of building and selling motorcycles. I think Ducati is building some of the most desirable motorcycles on the planet but that needs to be good enough, you can leave the lifestyle to us Ducati, we can do fine on our own thank you very much.

[thumbsup] One hundred percent. Things have been getting a bit super ghey. I owe you a beer.

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 03, 2009, 08:35:53 PM
i have them all on LaserDisc, the only reason i keep the damn thing around.

I don't think they are equivalent.  a 30k car is just getting a decent car wheras 30k for a bike gets you a new 1198S plus upgrades.

Equivalent in utility. Not in excitement, actual value to me, etc.

As I said: Further proof that cars suck is what you actually get for you $$$

Not to drag this any further, but my opinion is that a 9K bike is NOT exclusive.  Other bikes, not just Ducati, cost about the same if not more but we don't hear those manufactures being compared to the exclusivity of Ferrari and/or Porsche.

Heck - I've seen one Ferrari in the last 3 months yet I've seen at least 50 Ducatis (and that's just in my day to day commute) on the road, 1098, Monsters, Hypers, etc.

Anyways...I still like my bike and enjoy riding it.  I'll buy a Ducati t-shirt here and there but will probably skip the fashion shows and the wine bottles.

[thumbsup]

Hey Italianharley, Are you calling ducati's italian harleys?

Maybe you didn't hear but Ducati nixed the Apollo and the Indiana. Those may have been considered italianharleys. Or maybe the Aramacci - only by association, and now of course MV Agusta is an italian Harley by ownership only, not in any relative sort of way.

All of those things could have been called an italianharley but not anything built by Ducati in the last 30 years!

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

Quote from: ItalianHarley on February 04, 2009, 02:38:54 PM
Not to drag this any further, but my opinion is that a 9K bike is NOT exclusive.  Other bikes, not just Ducati, cost about the same if not more but we don't hear those manufactures being compared to the exclusivity of Ferrari and/or Porsche.

Heck - I've seen one Ferrari in the last 3 months yet I've seen at least 50 Ducatis (and that's just in my day to day commute) on the road, 1098, Monsters, Hypers, etc.

Anyways...I still like my bike and enjoy riding it.  I'll buy a Ducati t-shirt here and there but will probably skip the fashion shows and the wine bottles.

[thumbsup]

Guess that exclusivity thing varies depending on where you live. For example, in the town of about 100k where I live, I've got the only Duc (as far as the nearest dealer knows). I do however see Gixxers, CBR's, R1's etc, all the time, as well as tons of Harleys.

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 04, 2009, 04:15:22 PM
Hey Italianharley, Are you calling ducati's italian harleys?

Maybe you didn't hear but Ducati nixed the Apollo and the Indiana. Those may have been considered italianharleys. Or maybe the Aramacci - only by association, and now of course MV Agusta is an italian Harley by ownership only, not in any relative sort of way.

All of those things could have been called an italianharley but not anything built by Ducati in the last 30 years!

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

Air cooled twin, huge camaraderie amongst owners, lots of branding, resistance to change of any of the "classic" styles.


Sorry man-it's an Italian Harley.

Quote from: wantingaduc on February 04, 2009, 09:23:06 AM
But, I have to reply to volume versus quality.  Usually, higher volume = higher quality.  It has to by the laws of nature.  If your quality decreased with volume increasing, you would eventually have 100% bad.  For example, if you make 10, and 3 are bad (30%), then make 20 and 8 are bad (40%), then make 40 and 20 are bad (50%), you will get to 100% bad quickly as production grows.

for any given product, smaller production levels  usually allow higher production quality.
Invest in more production capacity and with it the manpower to make and inspect the product in order to maintain quality

The highest quality components in the world also have the highest production rate - atoms, cells, resistors, heartbeats, etc.

when it comes to products that are as complex a system as a motorized vehicle (bike, car, plane, etc...) more product at the same quality means a lot more investment.  When you mention man made items like resistors and ic chips you have to look at the incredible investment in the production facilites that are required to make these products at such vast amounts and at such high quality levels, ie: clean room facilities, etc.

Well, we can agree to disagree then.  If the 10 same people make 100 products, or 1000, they have the same chance of making a mistake on each one, so there may be more bad after 1000, but not a higher percentage versus total.  But, typically, if a company is making 1000 versus 100, they will improve the tools and methods, thus actually decreasing their defective rate.

I work in a production environment, and our lowest volume lines have the highest defective rate by %, while our highest volumes have the lowest defective rate. 

mitt

Quote from: mitt on February 04, 2009, 05:29:17 PM

I work in a production environment, and our lowest volume lines have the highest defective rate by %, while our highest volumes have the lowest defective rate. 

mitt

+1 here-when I ran a production floor, the higher production items were more consistent.

If Ducati is infatuated with the Harley Davidson business model, perhaps they should take another look. After a 58% drop in profits in the 4Q, HD sold Warren Buffet $600M of bonds with a 15% interest rate. Buffet bought bonds and declined to buy stock and an equity position in the company. The stock has gone up in value after the announcement but some thoughtful investors wonder why.  See:

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3010308 (http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle/articleid/3010308)

And remember, Harley Davidson builds a motorcycle that vibrates on purpose. Vibration is the enemy of machinery (a general truism). Harley Davidson riders like vibration (another general truism). No one can explain exactly why,  although theories abound.

The brand is an extension of the product, not the other way around.  When you hear a Ducati rolling down the block, you know what it is before you see it, and if you're like me, your heart rate quickens.  That's not marketing.

Like any cool thing (or person) worthy of admiration, people will try to attach themselves to it, and where there's profit to be made, you'll see Ducati chotchkies.  If I see someone wearing a Ducati-branded watch, and the guy doesn't ride a Duc, I might feel a little sorry for him; but it also makes me puff out my chest that much more, knowing that I've got the real thing.  On the other hand, if I see a guy with a Ducati die-cast model on the desk in his office, and he does ride a Duc, well then I've just found a common bond that I wouldn't have otherwise known about.

And I will admit to loving the Ducati-themed onesy that my 10-month old son wears.

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 04, 2009, 04:15:22 PM
The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

[roll]

Puh-leeze.  I don't think you're in danger of having someone confuse our Ducatis with a Harley.  (a Buell maybe, but I digress)  Ducati is simply taking a page from H-D's playbook.

Bear in mind, Ducati isn't the only moto OEM that emulates H-D's business model.  Just about all of them do, to varied degrees of success.  (ask me how I know)

How can you blame Ducati for wanting to sell branded apparel and accessories?  The margins on these products are much better than on the motos themselves.  (typicallly 3x-5x the moto margin)   If Ducati can make some $$ by building a Euro-fashionable brand and selling expensive shirts, I'm all for it.  If they don't take advantage of the brand marketing opportunities, it's simply $$ that they're "leaving on the table."

Quote from: Raux on February 02, 2009, 09:59:34 PM
too bad some of the people Jeff has working for him (Scott in Dallas specifically) aren't the same type of people.

how/why Scott is in the Sales Mgr position of that dealership is beyond me.

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 04, 2009, 04:15:22 PM

The last thing I want associated with Ducati is Harley. I find the inference offensive and degrading...

???

IMHO Racing is what makes Ducati what it is.  TPG rescued the company and they kept the brand heavily involved in racing.  NASCAR has destroyed the link between what factories race and what factories sell.  I am glad that Ducati has not modeled their plan after Chevy or Ford - so far.   I've got my fingers crossed it will stay that way now that NASCAR owns AMA.  The bottom line for me is that no amount of marketing could have talked me into buying a Ford Taurus at the dealership because they raced a NASCAR that had a Taurus sticker on it.

Quote from: Tim on February 08, 2009, 10:32:01 AM
Why?   I bought my 1973 Ducati 750GT in 1986, and owned in for 13 years.  Since then, I've owned more than 10 other Ducatis, have successfully raced them in club roadracing and in national Moto-ST events.  I currently own a highly modified S4Rs and an 800SS racebike.   I also own a highly modified and totally pregnant doging Harley FLHXI Street Glide, and it is, in a completely different way than my Ducatis are, a GREAT motorcycle.

Harley sold 219,000 motorcycles in the U.S. last year and another 97,000 overseas.  Ducati sold 10,004 bikes in the U.S. in 2007; I don't know what their 2008 numbers were, but most likely they were down like everyone else's.  Maybe they could learn a thing or two from Harley!

There's nothing degrading about emulating a company that has 25 years of solid growth in sales, profitiablility, earnings, and net worth (with only the worldwide recession of 2008-2009 interrupting it) .   Heck, Ducati has dodged from one financial disaster to the next since I became an enthusiast of the company and its products in 1979; I'd love to see them embark on a 25-year journey as successful as that of Harley-Davidson since they escaped the embrace of AMF.

Motorcycles rock; buy whatever make and model gets you off, but for goodness sakes don't look down on the bikes that other people like.

You can't make well educated posts like that. You will scare all of the stuck-up Ducati owners.  ;)  (they think they are special)

but....but.... I am special






[laugh]

I'm spacial....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_jUtpA03c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_jUtpA03c)

Roberts had it right! I want the mystique and the Rrrrico... lifestyle to become ever more extreme and stay that way. How else could a retired English teacher ever get his hands on a showroom-pretty 2001 750 M with fewer than 2000 miles on the clock for under 4 (big) bills?  [thumbsup]

If you dont like something.....simply move on.

I like my bikes and dont like this thread so... i'm moving on [cheeky]
[laugh]

Quote from: Tim on February 08, 2009, 10:32:01 AM
Why?   I bought my 1973 Ducati 750GT in 1986, and owned in for 13 years.  Since then, I've owned more than 10 other Ducatis, have successfully raced them in club roadracing and in national Moto-ST events.  I currently own a highly modified S4Rs and an 800SS racebike.   I also own a highly modified and totally pregnant doging Harley FLHXI Street Glide, and it is, in a completely different way than my Ducatis are, a GREAT motorcycle.

Harley sold 219,000 motorcycles in the U.S. last year and another 97,000 overseas.  Ducati sold 10,004 bikes in the U.S. in 2007; I don't know what their 2008 numbers were, but most likely they were down like everyone else's.  Maybe they could learn a thing or two from Harley!

There's nothing degrading about emulating a company that has 25 years of solid growth in sales, profitiablility, earnings, and net worth (with only the worldwide recession of 2008-2009 interrupting it) .   Heck, Ducati has dodged from one financial disaster to the next since I became an enthusiast of the company and its products in 1979; I'd love to see them embark on a 25-year journey as successful as that of Harley-Davidson since they escaped the embrace of AMF

Motorcycles rock; buy whatever make and model gets you off, but for goodness sakes don't look down on the bikes that other people like.

Tim - great post.  Some day I'll get a geezer glide  [thumbsup]...until then, I'll be riding the Wide Glide. 

Tim you're talking about the business. This is a lifestyle thread...
I want nothing to do with the harley lifestyle and find it disgusting. If that was all there was to motorcycling I'd have a different hobby
But to each his own, these guys look like they'er having a lot of fun...
(http://www.therealgalveston.com/Pics-Lone-Star-Biker-Rally/Lone-Star-Biker-Rally30.jpg)

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 09, 2009, 02:52:00 PM
Tim you're talking about the business. This is a lifestyle thread...
I want nothing to do with the harley lifestyle and find it disgusting. If that was all there was to motorcycling I'd have a different hobby

Lifestyle is what you make of it, no?

Just look at the range we have here. People who love and cherish their bikes, sit down with a beer after a ride and watch the bike cool down, then wash it.


Then there are people like myself, who had *only* the duc, and rode it everyday, rain or shine. Some people call that abuse of a duc.


Who cares what the company promotes?

I like the Harley and Ducati "lifestyle" better than the Suzuki one:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Overweight_biker.jpg/754px-Overweight_biker.jpg)

Quote from: Tim on February 08, 2009, 10:32:01 AM

Harley sold 219,000 motorcycles in the U.S. last year and another 97,000 overseas.  Ducati sold 10,004 bikes in the U.S. in 2007; I don't know what their 2008 numbers were, but most likely they were down like everyone else's.  Maybe they could learn a thing or two from Harley!

9,784 in the US in 2008. 10,793 in Italy. World wide total 42,818. Monsters 17,351. SBKs 14,645.

Quote from: ducatizzzz on February 09, 2009, 03:29:45 PM
I like the Harley and Ducati "lifestyle" better than the Suzuki one:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Overweight_biker.jpg/754px-Overweight_biker.jpg)

I told them they couldn't use the picture of me on a suzuki.

Quote from: rose_guy on February 09, 2009, 05:57:24 PM
I told them they couldn't use the picture of me on a suzuki.

why did you hang your "pride" shirt on the back of the bike?  you should havebeen wearing it...   [puke]

That bike looks like a GS1150E ~

JM

Quote from: the_Journeyman on February 10, 2009, 06:59:05 AM
That bike looks like a GS1150E ~

JM

with super heavy duty shocks.

Yup.  Good thing those had entire too much power for the average person ~

JM

Quote from: Rotten Randy on February 02, 2009, 10:59:52 AM
All very good points. I love the bikes but not everything else. You've got to hand it to Ducati though. American men are becoming soft affeminate metrosexual European wannabes and Ducati has absolutely nailed the timing on their marketing....  :-* :-* :-* [wine]

Where did you get that Wine drinking Emoticon?! That is so cool ... Is that DESMOROSSO?! ::PFFT:: At $7 a bolt who can afford Wine, Starbucks, or "Ducati shoes"!! - I love the look, sound, and feel of the bike - not the name that goes with it.

Quote from: sbrguy on February 02, 2009, 12:55:42 PM
mvagusta being italian sells a slightly different slant of ducati in that they sell "exclusivity along with italian cool styling and such"

ducati can't and wont' ever be like bmw or other brands, if they do they will lose their individuality.  

I never knew Harley Davidson owns MV Agusta .. Crazy huh That we don't see them marketed like HD does here in America.  Are they worried about infringing on Buell's territory?

when they start selling coffee, cigaretts, and "road food" (beef jerkey) I am out!

Quote from: clittelm750 on May 22, 2009, 11:50:08 AM
I never knew Harley Davidson owns MV Agusta .. Crazy huh That we don't see them marketed like HD does here in America.  Are they worried about infringing on Buell's territory?

Harley bought them less than a year ago.. What HD has in store for MV remains to be seen.

I'd like my bike just as much if I were told I could ride it all I want but nobody would ever see me and I couldn't tell anyone I owned it. 

If you don't buy a bike for a certain image you won't care what image comes with the bike. 

lots of people protesting a bit too much and it sounds to me they're  worried their own tough image is somehow tarnished by duc marketing.

pretty easy to tell weekend banker harley guy from hardcore longterm 'biker' (and not making judgements against either..just saying not difficult to differentiate)

similar for Duc buyers.

if someone buys into the branding because it brings them joy then who cares if it's wine and coffee mugs etc.   if having that stuff makes someone think they're  cooler than a guy who tracks his gixxer then that's different and bring on the rant.

ride hard.

Quote from: flynbulldog on February 09, 2009, 02:52:00 PM
(http://www.therealgalveston.com/Pics-Lone-Star-Biker-Rally/Lone-Star-Biker-Rally30.jpg)

I think the guy on the left works at my bank . . .

Quote from: clittelm750 on May 22, 2009, 11:41:17 AM
Where did you get that Wine drinking Emoticon?! That is so cool ... Is that DESMOROSSO?!

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Adam

Quote from: Bun-bun on May 22, 2009, 01:32:38 PM
I think the guy on the left works at my bank . . .

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
You can tell by his tasteful choice of flare.

Quote from: sally101 on May 22, 2009, 12:51:32 PM
Harley bought them less than a year ago.. What HD has in store for MV remains to be seen.

probably a new managing director:

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/05/mv-agustas-donofrio-accused-of.html#more (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/05/mv-agustas-donofrio-accused-of.html#more)

This is the attitude I was referring to last week with my Snobbery thread.  On one of the other sites that cater to these red bikes, there is a thread about some $155 grips, that these are the grips to have.   I questioned this, and am anxiously awaiting a reply.   

But so much of the Ducati thing is an Image thing, quite like the Harley Image.  Personally, I don't like paying more for parts.  I don't like waiting a long time for parts.  I don't like talking to people that think they are better than someone else because they own an expensive bike or car.  I've seen mentioned, either here or someplace like it, that someone said they won't wave at Japanese bikes, and someone else said they won't wave at scooter riders either.   I'll wave at both.  I'll stop and help both if I see one dead on the side of the road.   Same with Harleys, even though I doubt most would stop for me. 

What say you guys, do you wave at other riders?  Even BMW, scooter and Harley riders?   Would you stop for any of them if they had problems on the road? 

I guess what I'm asking here is, "Are you a real motorcyclist, or would you just ride on by?"

Quote from: corndog67 on May 24, 2009, 11:05:02 AM
This is the attitude I was referring to last week with my Snobbery thread.  On one of the other sites that cater to these red bikes, there is a thread about some $155 grips, that these are the grips to have.   I questioned this, and am anxiously awaiting a reply.   

But so much of the Ducati thing is an Image thing, quite like the Harley Image.  Personally, I don't like paying more for parts.  I don't like waiting a long time for parts.  I don't like talking to people that think they are better than someone else because they own an expensive bike or car.  I've seen mentioned, either here or someplace like it, that someone said they won't wave at Japanese bikes, and someone else said they won't wave at scooter riders either.   I'll wave at both.  I'll stop and help both if I see one dead on the side of the road.   Same with Harleys, even though I doubt most would stop for me. 

What say you guys, do you wave at other riders?  Even BMW, scooter and Harley riders?   Would you stop for any of them if they had problems on the road? 

I guess what I'm asking here is, "Are you a real motorcyclist, or would you just ride on by?"

I'm "better" than some people and I'm not as good as a lot. It has nothing to do with my choice of bike though. Ducati does not change my miserable faith, but it brings me more joy than I think most other bikes would.
I wave at every two wheeler, but not inside the city center. Maybe a young scooterist doesn't understand the wave and might be confused?
Stopping to help a dead car or bike is a given IMO. I think we build a good relationship that way - it might also help to be treated better by other people.

My 80 year old parents car "died" the other day, with a busted generator. They didn't have a cell phone to call for help. Several cars honked their horn because they were obstructed - nobody stopped until a biker came along. He stopped, pushed the car out of traffic, called a tow truck and stayed until they got it all sorted out. My mother told him I would be pleased to hear that a rider helped them. He smiled and said it's just how riders are. My mother understands my enthusiasm better now.

Quote from: MrIncredible on February 02, 2009, 11:55:36 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but....


I ride my bike because I like my bike.



I couldn't care less what the company does over there.



If one feels they need to live up to some sort of image because one has been provided....well....you might want to reevaluate things a bit.

^   What he said.    Now where can I order a $50 Ducati t-shirt and an expresso machine for my bike?   lol

Quote from: Statler on May 22, 2009, 01:27:42 PM
I'd like my bike just as much if I were told I could ride it all I want but nobody would ever see me and I couldn't tell anyone I owned it. 

If you don't buy a bike for a certain image you won't care what image comes with the bike. 

lots of people protesting a bit too much and it sounds to me they're  worried their own tough image is somehow tarnished by duc marketing.

pretty easy to tell weekend banker harley guy from hardcore longterm 'biker'  (and not making judgements against either..just saying not difficult to differentiate)

+1  Not to say that there is also some of the weekender harley guys that aren't obnoxious.  I think that there are guys that buy bikes to "be cool" and guys who buy bikes for the need to "fit in". It might be hard to distinguish the two.  Some just ride because they like it (when it is 75 degrees and sunny).  Sorry, I have a friend that would pass as a weekend harley rider, but he is just a fair weather wussy!similar for Duc buyers.

if someone buys into the branding because it brings them joy then who cares if it's wine and coffee mugs etc.   if having that stuff makes someone think they're  cooler than a guy who tracks his gixxer then that's different and bring on the rant.

I would have to say that it would be so easy to fall into the "I am cool, I have a Ducati" mentality.  It starts at the dealer.  Something has to drive a person to drop an extra $4000 on a Ducati as opposed to a SV650.  It carries on to the attention.  I, consistantly, get left in the dust on our weekend rides on my little S2R.  Parlty due to skill, mostly due to bike performance.  But in the end, when the bikes are in line in a parking lot.  People seem to be drawn to the Monster.  Personally, I am not big on the "cooler then coolest" personality, and I have a hard time showcasing my bike to others knowing that is in the middle of bikes that have been kicking its ass all day long.  But what do you do.  It is hard to direct attention away from a unique / somewhat funny looking sportbike to a blue and white Gixxer750.
ride hard.