Why do sellers have to pay a fee to accept paypal when its a buyers convenience?
I refuse to have to pay for
1. Insertion fee
2. Initial price fee
3. Final Value fee
4. Paypal fee (owned by ebay, so you might as well tack it as a ebay fee)
Ofcourse ebay has come out wiht a new 5 fee items a month. but for the times i list more than 5 items. yea...no thank you.
AFAIK, i looked through all of ebays rules. there is none about a seller charging a buyer to pay for paypal fees. Just like a store can refuse to accept a credit card payment for anything under a certain amount because they lose a lot of money on those type of items since its mostly what they sell.
ridiculous ebay fees, great for buyers a nightmare for sellers.
For larger sums of money, I usually pass the charges onto the buyer.
i pass the charges on for anyone unless i know them. its a very minor fee, it isnt going to kill me. but it does piss me off that ebay is always trying to find ways to take your money for the smallest things. like a god damn ferengi.
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:35:22 PM
like a god damn ferengi.
[laugh]GEEK ALERT! [laugh]
Geek? me? whos the one who noticed it? ;)
Quote from: Bun-bun on July 11, 2009, 05:45:00 PM
[laugh]GEEK ALERT! [laugh]
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
:-[ :-[ :-X :-X
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:28:13 PM
Just like a store can refuse to accept a credit card payment for anything under a certain amount because they lose a lot of money on those type of items since its mostly what they sell.
AFAIK, they aren't allowed to legally do that. It violates their terms of service with the CC companies.
Doesn't mean they won't do it.
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:28:13 PM
Why do sellers have to pay a fee to accept paypal when its a buyers convenience?
well, it's for the seller's convenience, as well. if you had a storefront, you'd pay your bank a processing fee for taking credit cards. same thing.
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:28:13 PM
AFAIK, i looked through all of ebays rules. there is none about a seller charging a buyer to pay for paypal fees. Just like a store can refuse to accept a credit card payment for anything under a certain amount because they lose a lot of money on those type of items since its mostly what they sell.
iirc, it's against paypal's TOS to charge them for the fee.
http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#receiving_payments (http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside#receiving_payments)
5. No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
AFAIK, thats only if you own and operate a store front. You cant go up to a garage sale and expect them to take credit cards. Im not a buisness, I'm just a guy thats forced into using thier stupid system, they can try and cite all the legallity of it all, but a credit card is not considered legal tender.
I'm sure theres stacks of law suits against ebay and paypal for this very reason.
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 06:39:14 PM
AFAIK, thats only if you own and operate a store front. You cant go up to a garage sale and expect them to take credit cards.
i don't expect it, but i have seen somebody at a garage sale using paypal as a credit card processor.
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 06:39:14 PM
Im not a buisness, I'm just a guy thats forced into using thier stupid system...
you're not forced... you can just as easily ask your buyer to mail you a check. of course, the postal service is going to charge one of you guys a minimum $0.44 convenience fee. ;D
you know, you make up a good point in postage. the person sending the letter, pays for the postage as a fee for someone else delivering for you. Paypal delivers the money on behalf of the buyer, WHY DOES THE SELLER NEED TO PAY FOR IT???
It really makes no sense.
sense may it not make, young jedi, but live with it you must. 8)
If it helps ease your mind(and I know it won't) IMO, buyers are willing to pay more for the convenience of using a pay service like paypal, so auctions with paypal tend to make more money.
Just raise your prices 3% on buy it now listings.
Quote from: Bun-bun on July 11, 2009, 07:21:36 PM
sense may it not make, young jedi, but live with it you must. 8)
[laugh] [laugh] You're killing me.
I too refuse to pay the insertion fee...and therefore there has been no insertion lately... >:(
Quote from: redxblack on July 11, 2009, 07:26:41 PM
Just raise your prices 3% on buy it now listings.
smart, but ebays one step ahead, they charge you a buy it now listing fee!
Q could mess up yoda pretty bad.
You're paying for the opportunity to advertise your items ... To the world ... And not have to deal with a trip to the bank to deposit a check.
If neither of those things make your life easier, or you can't see the value in paying for them - advertise o CraigsList :) after getting killed with fees on eBay / PayPal I just started selling everything on CL and Forums ... Never had an issue, and its free ;D
Cheers,
Adam
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:28:13 PMJust like a store can refuse to accept a credit card payment for anything under a certain amount
Ah, but they can't. Doing this is a violation of the merchant agreement for every card issuer in the US.
That doesn't mean merchants don't try, and it doesn't mean they don't often get away with it, but if they get caught it usually means either that they lose their account or have to pay a fine.
weird - just about every bar around here has a $12 minimum credit card rule. It's rarely a problem for me since we take turns buying rounds.
Every subways has a $5min order (never seen one that didnt)
Every bar has a $20 min order (easily aciheved with 2 beers)
Every corner store i know has a $10 min order to use a CC.
I never knew it was illegal to not accept a CC for cost below a certain item. It certainly doenst look like it, and the big CC companies dont seem to fight it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11697094/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11697094/)
Merchants accepting Visa or MasterCard credit or debit cards are not allowed to set a minimum amount for using the card; that is a violation of the merchant agreement.
Can a merchant charge you a service fee for using a credit card or debit card? There is no federal regulation that prohibits this. The law that prohibited a surcharge on credit card purchases expired back in 1984. Both Visa and MasterCard allow a merchant to offer a discount to customers who pay by cash or check, but in most cases they say, a merchant cannot charge more for putting it on plastic -- that would be a violation of the merchant agreement.
What actually defines a merchant though? anyone looking to sell goods? or does it have to be a company? some sort of corps/llc etc.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 10:04:40 AMI never knew it was illegal to not accept a CC for cost below a certain item.
It's not illegal. It's a contract violation.
Quotethe big CC companies dont seem to fight it.
They do when they get complaints.
A "merchant" in this case is anyone who is accepting credit cards. That includes for goods or for services.
ebay states that if you sell and accept paypal, you must have a premier account, and in doing so, you must accept credit cards. man they got you in a loop hole no matter what you do. :/
Look, here's the bottom line:
I'm a merchant, a "little guy." I have MAYBE a 30% margin on the goods I sell. If someone walks into my store and wants to purchase a $1.50 item with a credit card, I pay a $0.39 fee + anywhere from 2-4% fee for the transaction on top of that. If I let them use a credit card for that purchase, I lose money. So if the person buying it doesn't want to give me cash, they don't need it that badly. And if the credit card company wants to drop my contract as a result of me charging a surcharge to pay THEIR stupid fees when they make money coming AND going, they can bite me. I'll find another merchant machine company.
Sorry folks, that's just how it is.
Quote from: River on July 12, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
I'm a merchant, a "little guy." I have MAYBE a 30% margin on the goods I sell. If someone walks into my store and wants to purchase a $1.50 item with a credit card, I pay a $0.39 fee + anywhere from 2-4% fee for the transaction on top of that. If I let them use a credit card for that purchase, I lose money. So if the person buying it doesn't want to give me cash, they don't need it that badly. And if the credit card company wants to drop my contract as a result of me charging a surcharge to pay THEIR stupid fees when they make money coming AND going, they can bite me. I'll find another merchant machine company.
agreed x 10.
Quote from: River on July 12, 2009, 12:04:21 PM
Look, here's the bottom line:
I'm a merchant, a "little guy." I have MAYBE a 30% margin on the goods I sell. If someone walks into my store and wants to purchase a $1.50 item with a credit card, I pay a $0.39 fee + anywhere from 2-4% fee for the transaction on top of that. If I let them use a credit card for that purchase, I lose money. So if the person buying it doesn't want to give me cash, they don't need it that badly. And if the credit card company wants to drop my contract as a result of me charging a surcharge to pay THEIR stupid fees when they make money coming AND going, they can bite me. I'll find another merchant machine company.
Sorry folks, that's just how it is.
When I was in the retail business, I didn't have that many people trying this, so it all balanced out in the end. Lose on some transactions, gain on others. I bet it's way worse now with the advent of check cards.
Quote from: superjohn on July 12, 2009, 12:50:16 PM
When I was in the retail business, I didn't have that many people trying this, so it all balanced out in the end. Lose on some transactions, gain on others. I bet it's way worse now with the advent of check cards.
I don't think the hit on the merchant, for using a check card is as bad as a cc.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 12:30:18 PM
agreed x 10.
you can say you agree all you want, but you're still complaining about adhering to the TOS or restrictions of a vendor that you choose to partner with to facilitate your sales.
as drdesmo said above, cut ebay out of the mix and you not only avoid their various fees, but you can also accept whatever forms of payment you want.
Quote from: kopfjager on July 12, 2009, 12:57:52 PM
I don't think the hit on the merchant, for using a check card is as bad as a cc.
wouldn't that depend on how the transaction was processed? you can process those both as an at (with pin) or via the mc/visa system.
Quote from: derby on July 12, 2009, 01:03:05 PM
wouldn't that depend on how the transaction was processed? you can process those both as an at (with pin) or via the mc/visa system.
Yes, I'm pretty sure if it's processed as a Check Card (pin entered) it's cheaper for the Merchant. I know it is at the bicycle shop I use, and I always ask the store I'm in what's better for them. They normally say Check Card.
Quote from: kopfjager on July 12, 2009, 01:08:42 PM
Yes, I'm pretty sure if it's processed as a Check Card (pin entered) it's cheaper for the Merchant. I know it is at the bicycle shop I use, and I always ask the store I'm in what's better for them. They normally say Check Card.
i often do the same thing. however, i believe that if you process a transaction through the bank/atm network, you may not get the "card" protections.
small transactions (gum, water, etc) i'll usually use my card/pin... anything that i may want extended warranty/shit gets stolen protection is visa-processed.
Quote from: derby on July 12, 2009, 01:28:01 PM
i often do the same thing. however, i believe that if you process a transaction through the bank/atm network, you may not get the "card" protections.
small transactions (gum, water, etc) i'll usually use my card/pin... anything that i may want extended warranty/shit gets stolen protection is visa-processed.
From what I understand, the Bank/Credit Union is responsible for the money you spend with Your Check card. Meaning if someone steals it and somehow makes it work and it wasn't you who made the purchase, they (the bank) have to repay you. That is why there is a limit on cash withdrawls and store purchases in a 24hr period.
I don't understand the issue.
It is a service.
You pay to use it.
It is convenient.
Don't like?
accept a money order and deal with that nightmare.
Oh yeah, you have to pay for that too.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 12, 2009, 01:49:21 PM
I don't understand the issue.
It is a service.
You pay to use it.
It is convenient.
Don't like?
accept a money order and deal with that nightmare.
Oh yeah, you have to pay for that too.
No no, I want the ability to digitally receive money, have seller protection, and not have to go to the post office, not have to deal with going to the bank, not have to deal with waiting in line ... for free!
;)
Everything is amazing, nobody is happy... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jETv3NURwLc#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
Adam
[clap]
All too true. [clap]
Quote from: He Man on July 11, 2009, 05:28:13 PM
Why do sellers have to pay a fee to accept paypal when its a buyers convenience?
I refuse to have to pay for
1. Insertion fee
2. Initial price fee
3. Final Value fee
4. Paypal fee (owned by ebay, so you might as well tack it as a ebay fee)
Ofcourse ebay has come out wiht a new 5 fee items a month. but for the times i list more than 5 items. yea...no thank you.
AFAIK, i looked through all of ebays rules. there is none about a seller charging a buyer to pay for paypal fees. Just like a store can refuse to accept a credit card payment for anything under a certain amount because they lose a lot of money on those type of items since its mostly what they sell.
ridiculous ebay fees, great for buyers a nightmare for sellers.
that is not actually legal (last time i looked into it.) merchants who follow that practice risk losing the convenience of accepting credit cards for transactions.
they (and you) should always keep in mind how much business is done without the use of real cash......and the potential loss of sales if you/they choose not to accept the cost of doing business electronically.
Quote
accept a money order and deal with that nightmare.
Oh you mean Paypal isnt a nightmare for sellers? You do realize theres a multitude of class action cases against paypal right? Money order is CASH. accept a money order is like accepting cash.
Oh and who pays the fee for hte money order? the BUYER does. WHen you write a check, who pays for the Check? the BUYER does.
DOes anyone not see the ridiculous nature of the eBay & paypal team? I DONT WANT TO USE PAPYPAL, but buyers LOVE IT. therefore im forced to use it. But if the buyer wants it so bad, why dont they fork over the money for it instead?
Look how much money the big bank makes. Say a small time guy uses a credit card to buy a bunch of product. Visa makes 5% on that transaction... the small time guy repackages it for distribution, and each supermarket buys it.... Visa makes 5% on the transaction....the buyer has the price of the item jacked up because of this.
eBay charges these countless number of charges....lets take for example, You want to sell a spare brand new tire. You purchased it for $120 online. you are looking for $100 for it. No one bites online, but you get offers for $80. its too low, your not willing to sell it for that much, so you ebay it hoping for atleast $100. The auction ends and yay you got $100 for it!
Lets track the fees for it. you just paid $0.15 to insert it, $2.00 to start the bid at 75 bucks, a final value fee of $9 (9%) and you lost $3 bucks on paypal fees.
To total it, you just lost $14.15 on it and had to jump through crazy hoops just to sell it. Congrats you jsut saved an extra $5 bucks for going to ebay.
Does anyone not realize how greedy these guys are? Im all for you making money, but when will you stop trying to squeeze every single penny out of someone whos making you money? Wall St journal has put a few articles up about how sellers are revolting against eBay, but quite frankly, the only way for that to happen is for a competing website to come up with a comparable service. Currently there is none. I wonder why that is? eBay probably ends up buying them out. So now what? your stuck with eBay again.
In the end, everyone pays no matter how you look at it.
Id also like to note this little rule that paypal/ebay makes....
Paypal is a free service!
If you want to accept credit cards you must upgrade to premier class!
If you want to sell on ebay you must accept credit cards!
Once you are a premier class all paypal transactions have a fee behind them!
Paypal isnt free.
vote with your dollar.
Don't use Ebay.
I thought surcharges on credit cards had been outlawed since the 70's? that's why you see "cash discount" prices instead.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 04:33:44 PM
Oh you mean Paypal isnt a nightmare for sellers? You do realize theres a multitude of class action cases against paypal right? Money order is CASH. accept a money order is like accepting cash.
Oh and who pays the fee for hte money order? the BUYER does. WHen you write a check, who pays for the Check? the BUYER does.
DOes anyone not see the ridiculous nature of the eBay & paypal team? I DONT WANT TO USE PAPYPAL, but buyers LOVE IT. therefore im forced to use it. But if the buyer wants it so bad, why dont they fork over the money for it instead?
Look how much money the big bank makes. Say a small time guy uses a credit card to buy a bunch of product. Visa makes 5% on that transaction... the small time guy repackages it for distribution, and each supermarket buys it.... Visa makes 5% on the transaction....the buyer has the price of the item jacked up because of this.
eBay charges these countless number of charges....lets take for example, You want to sell a spare brand new tire. You purchased it for $120 online. you are looking for $100 for it. No one bites online, but you get offers for $80. its too low, your not willing to sell it for that much, so you ebay it hoping for atleast $100. The auction ends and yay you got $100 for it!
Lets track the fees for it. you just paid $0.15 to insert it, $2.00 to start the bid at 75 bucks, a final value fee of $9 (9%) and you lost $3 bucks on paypal fees.
To total it, you just lost $14.15 on it and had to jump through crazy hoops just to sell it. Congrats you jsut saved an extra $5 bucks for going to ebay.
Does anyone not realize how greedy these guys are? Im all for you making money, but when will you stop trying to squeeze every single penny out of someone whos making you money? Wall St journal has put a few articles up about how sellers are revolting against eBay, but quite frankly, the only way for that to happen is for a competing website to come up with a comparable service. Currently there is none. I wonder why that is? eBay probably ends up buying them out. So now what? your stuck with eBay again.
In the end, everyone pays no matter how you look at it.
Id also like to note this little rule that paypal/ebay makes....
Paypal is a free service!
If you want to accept credit cards you must upgrade to premier class!
If you want to sell on ebay you must accept credit cards!
Once you are a premier class all paypal transactions have a fee behind them!
Paypal isnt free.
Holy ****!!! You mean advertising my items
to the world in a marketplace that usually gets a great price, isn't free? And accepting payments - literally - at the speed of light costs money?
To quote Morpheus:
(http://www.crytech.biz/images/subpages/morpheus.jpg)
Welcome ---- to the real world!
Seriously though - I completely agree with you He Man, their fees are ridiculous. But that's their business and seriously -
vote with your $. I use PayPal strictly to accept deposits on vehicles (which I refund upon receiving full price payment) and when I sell stuff on forums - and I give customers the choice to use Check / MO for free, or PayPal for +3%
I haven't sold anything on eBay in years ... But I do buy a bunch of stuff there ;D
Simple supply and demand ... If enough people stop using them the price will go down [thumbsup]
Cheers,
Adam
QuoteHoly ****!!! You mean advertising my items to the world in a marketplace that usually gets a great price, isn't free? And accepting payments - literally - at the speed of light costs money?
Dont start trying to make me sound like a liberal hippy who thinks everything should be free. im totally cool with paying for ebay.
but theres point where its just anal rapage. no ones going to step down from ebay until another one come up.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 07:00:07 PM
Dont start trying to make me sound like a liberal hippy who thinks everything should be free. im totally cool with paying for ebay.
but theres point where its just anal rapage. no ones going to step down from ebay until another one come up.
www.craigslist.org (//http://)
I have sold everything from a $50 iPod, to volvo door trim pieces, to $9800 bikes on there for 0 dollas ... Just sayin. Try some other venues [thumbsup]
Adam
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on July 12, 2009, 07:09:51 PM
I have sold... $9800 bikes on there for 0 dollas ... Just sayin.
next time you do this, send me a PM first. ;D
Quote from: derby on July 12, 2009, 07:14:25 PM
next time you do this, send me a PM first. ;D
[laugh]
Adam
wheres the mailing list for that?
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 04:33:44 PM
Oh you mean Paypal isnt a nightmare for sellers? You do realize theres a multitude of class action cases against paypal right? Money order is CASH. accept a money order is like accepting cash.
Oh and who pays the fee for hte money order? the BUYER does. WHen you write a check, who pays for the Check? the BUYER does.
DOes anyone not see the ridiculous nature of the eBay & paypal team? I DONT WANT TO USE PAPYPAL, but buyers LOVE IT. therefore im forced to use it. But if the buyer wants it so bad, why dont they fork over the money for it instead?
Because I have no interest in getting your address, going to the bank, getting a money order made out to you, mailing it, waiting for you to wait while the check clears, then hoping you might actually send me my stuff (of course if you don't what am I going to do?).
It's a pain in my ass. You list two identical items, and I'd buy it from the guy who accepted paypal over the one who didn't. It's great for the buyer, and even better if I can make sure I don't have to pay for a money order or a check.
Seriously dude, use craigslist.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 12, 2009, 08:14:15 PM
Because I have no interest in getting your address, going to the bank, getting a money order made out to you, mailing it, waiting for you to wait while the check clears, then hoping you might actually send me my stuff (of course if you don't what m I going to do?). It's a pain in my ass.
You're totally right. So ill do all that for you, for a small 5% fee of the total cost of whatever it is you bought. its fair right? im providing a service that does all of that for you,so you don't have to do all that.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 08:26:28 PM
You're totally right. So ill do all that for you, for a small 5% fee of the total cost of whatever it is you bought. its fair right? im providing a service that does all of that for you,so you don't have to do all that.
Absolutely-you want my money-earn it. If not, I'll go somewhere else. I buy on ebay.
I won't sell on ebay.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 08:26:28 PM
You're totally right. So ill do all that for you, for a small 5% fee of the total cost of whatever it is you bought. its fair right? im providing a service that does all of that for you,so you don't have to do all that.
Which is why people charge $8 to ship an item that arrives with $4 in postage. Ebay calls it fee avoidance. It should be called fee recovery.
Quote from: redxblack on July 12, 2009, 08:45:34 PM
Which is why people charge $8 to ship an item that arrives with $4 in postage. Ebay calls it fee avoidance. It should be called fee recovery.
it's shipping
and handling.
I won't buy from someone that doesn't accept Paypal. The seller is paying to provide the service to make the ease of buying their product more attractive. If you don't like it, don't use it.
And while I understand starting a thread to voise your concern, I don't understand why it's gone 4 pages and your last post's have you screaming and carrying on like the insignificant fee is life altering.
I have a chill pill I can sell you, but I only accept paypal.
Quote from: hbliam on July 12, 2009, 09:00:07 PM
I have a chill pill I can sell you put I only accept paypal.
Hell, I'll buy him a dozen.
I can't get to the bank until next Saturday though-then I can send a cashier's check-should be there a week from Tuesday. That okay?
This whole thing is ridiculous.
Don't use ebay/paypal then.
You know the fees are there, and no one's forcing you.
You want to use it because they offer something you want, but want it for free. Nothing is free.
Quote from: hbliam on July 12, 2009, 09:00:07 PM
And while I understand starting a thread to voise your concern, I don't understand why it's gone 4 pages and your last post's have you screaming and carrying on like the insignificant fee is life altering.
My bad about the whole thing seeming like i was screaming, i didnt notice how long it was or how it was being read until i re-read it.
Most of me getting fired up cause people keeping saying i want ebay to be free. Its not what im saying. If you understand why i started the thread, then im happy with that. I figured there were more people out there who sell on ebay enough to get annoyed with them bouncing off the walls with fees these past few months. I was wrong.
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 09:23:30 PM
My bad about the whole thing seeming like i was screaming, i didnt notice how long it was or how it was being read until i re-read it.
Most of me getting fired up cause people keeping saying i want ebay to be free. Its not what im saying. If you understand why i started the thread, then im happy with that. I figured there were more people out there who sell on ebay enough to get annoyed with them bouncing off the walls with fees these past few months. I was wrong.
Just to clarify -
I'm not saying that you want eBay to be free ... I'm saying, find somewhere else to sell your stuff [beer]
Cheers,
Adam
PS: Their fees DO suck, I agree 100% ... But I vote with my wallet [thumbsup]
[beer] :)
QuoteI have a chill pill I can sell you, but I only accept paypal.
tahts fine. but you're going to be paying the fees. not me. ;) [laugh]
Quote from: He Man on July 12, 2009, 09:31:17 PM
[beer] :)
tahts fine. but you're going to be paying the fees. not me. ;) [laugh]
I have an 8% off coupon if this item gets listed on eBay :D
i want my heating oil to be reasonably priced, without so many random increases which makes it hard to budget for. i understand the oil company making a profit.......but WTF is up with the price gouging JUST because its winter, and demand is high? since i am currently in a situation where i have to rent, not own, my heating options are pretty limited, so........
just a little perspective dude.
Quote from: herm on July 13, 2009, 04:01:00 AM
i want my heating oil to be reasonably priced, without so many random increases which makes it hard to budget for. i understand the oil company making a profit.......but WTF is up with the price gouging JUST because its winter, and demand is high? since i am currently in a situation where i have to rent, not own, my heating options are pretty limited, so........
just a little perspective dude.
Why are you paying for heating oil in the middle of summer? WTF dude!
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on July 13, 2009, 04:22:26 AM
Why are you paying for heating oil in the middle of summer? WTF dude!
It's the only way you can afford it here.
Back when ebay and Paypal were two separate entities, the fees for each made sense. But now that they are one, they literally get you coming and going.
Paypal makes sense for the buyer, but sucks for the seller.
Viva Capitalism!!!
Quote from: herm on July 13, 2009, 04:01:00 AM
i want my heating oil to be reasonably priced, without so many random increases which makes it hard to budget for. i understand the oil company making a profit.......but WTF is up with the price gouging JUST because its winter, and demand is high? since i am currently in a situation where i have to rent, not own, my heating options are pretty limited, so........
just a little perspective dude.
price gouging is pretty much what it is. I'm not sure if the price fluctuation come directly from the top, somewhere in between or just locally. Cause the same oil is being used somewhere else, and its summer over there. Its full of crockshit to have your own heating cost get jacked up to ridiculous levels because someone thought, hey, people NEED heat and they'll pay for it either way. Lets raise the costs by 100%
It must suck for you to have to face that bullshit, especially when it comes to something basic as heating your home.
Quote from: NAKID on July 13, 2009, 04:33:34 AM
Back when ebay and Paypal were two separate entities, the fees for each made sense. But now that they are one, they literally get you coming and going.
Paypal makes sense for the buyer, but sucks for the seller.
Yes it does suck for the seller. especially if you've been butt raped by a thieving buyer using the "Significantly not as described" maneuver. Goes back to why the buyer should front the fees.
Quote from: painter on July 13, 2009, 04:28:03 AM
It's the only way you can afford it here.
thats right. and i have an 11ty billion gallon tank hidden under the old barn. the oil people still havent figured out how come i am using so much oil in the summer, but dont need any deliveries in the winter
Quote from: painter on July 13, 2009, 04:28:03 AM
It's the only way you can afford it here.
*cough* California ;D
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 13, 2009, 08:50:05 PM
*cough* California ;D
I was trying to figure out why they had holding tanks for oil under their barns. :)
Natural gas runs my: heater, clothes dryer, built in BBQ, water heater. $20-25 a month in the winter, about $11 now.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 13, 2009, 08:50:05 PM
*cough* California ;D
Cali is a great place...
Sunny...warm...
and waaaaay too many people for my tastes.
You guys have high property costs, overcrowding (IMO), and taxes as your 'payback' for being warm
We have the cold and snow as our penance to keep out the masses.
Quote from: hbliam on July 13, 2009, 09:32:24 PM
I was trying to figure out why they had holding tanks for oil under their barns. :)
Natural gas runs my: heater, clothes dryer, built in BBQ, water heater. $20-25 a month in the winter, about $11 now.
I wish we had the infrastructure for NG. It wouldn't be $25/month in winter though. ;)
a cheap gas bill is probably about the only thing cheap about living in California
Why no NG in New England?
Just curious...........
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 14, 2009, 05:47:26 AM
Why no NG in New England?
Just curious...........
Not New England...
Just not much out side of the most urban areas in NH.
They sell us pro
pain.
They get to rape us on the trucking fees. ;)
Quote from: painter on July 14, 2009, 05:50:43 AM
Not New England...
Just not much out side of the most urban areas in NH.
They sell us propain.
They get to rape us on the trucking fees. ;)
Ahhh, ok. that makes sense.
I figured the option would be there to have an above (or below) ground tank but there had to be a snag.
delivery fees.........
Quote from: painter on July 14, 2009, 03:15:22 AM
Cali is a great place...
Sunny...warm...
and waaaaay too many people for my tastes.
You guys have high property costs, overcrowding (IMO), and taxes as your 'payback' for being warm
Only 200 people in our town...we've got more deer than people as neighbors. ;)
You are correct on the high costs, but our property taxes are limited by prop 13.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 14, 2009, 05:47:26 AM
Why no NG in New England?
Just curious...........
There's a wee bit of granite here. That makes digging and burying any sort of utility supplies pretty challenging. It's doable, but hard to justify outside of the areas that qualify here as densely-populated urban areas.
The biggest city in the state has about 110,000 people and a population density of around 3,300/sq. mi. My town is way, way, way smaller than that. Who's going to build the infrastructure to deliver natural gas to an area where most people can't get cable or DSL?
how much is propane out there? The train ads claim that oil prices are more stable and cheaper than NG. But Propane is suppose to have more energy than NG.
i just happen to have this nifty chart hanging around
http://www.energykinetics.com/savingsHeatingFuelComparisons.shtml (http://www.energykinetics.com/savingsHeatingFuelComparisons.shtml)
oh man. Oil IS cheaper. i guess those ads trying to get people to not go to NG were right. The bill in my house for NG heating in the summer is baout $500 a month. But we also cook with gas, have gas water heaters.etc
Quote from: herm on July 14, 2009, 11:12:54 AM
i just happen to have this nifty chart hanging around
http://www.energykinetics.com/savingsHeatingFuelComparisons.shtml (http://www.energykinetics.com/savingsHeatingFuelComparisons.shtml)
Too bad they don't list the best of all.
Wood ;D (Pellets don't count).
speaking of paypal fees, over in the classifieds someone is trying to charge an extra 10$ in paypal fees on a 200$ purchase.
Fees on that would be no more that a tad over 6$.
40% gouge on a fee. That is what I can't stand. I will pay the fee exactly what it comes to, not 40% higher. So many people try this.
You could, of course, just charge a " handling fee " much like the car dealers on eBay charge a " paperwork fee " of $200 - $600 per vehicle, buried in the fine print [roll]
local car dealers even charge the document fee
I paid 250$ on my Monster when I bought from a dealer in stupid doc fees
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on July 14, 2009, 11:52:19 AM
You could, of course, just charge a " handling fee " much like the car dealers on eBay charge a " paperwork fee " of $200 - $600 per vehicle, buried in the fine print [roll]
hehehhe:
Quote from: derby on July 12, 2009, 08:55:19 PM
it's shipping and handling.
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 14, 2009, 11:21:35 AM
Too bad they don't list the best of all.
Wood ;D (Pellets don't count).
since you asked........see the chart about 1/4 of the way down the page. in 2008 wood was almost 4x more expensive per BTU to heat your home
http://www.inspect-ny.com/heat/Current_Heating_Cost_Table.htm
Where are you suppose to get your wood from anyway? do you buy it? or is there a tree farm of some sort and you can just chop and pay for what you take?
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on July 14, 2009, 11:52:19 AM
You could, of course, just charge a " handling fee " much like the car dealers on eBay charge a " paperwork fee " of $200 - $600 per vehicle, buried in the fine print [roll]
just another way for them to make money is all. AFAIK, they are just signing some papers. and maybe 1/8th of that are charged by the DMV.
Quote from: He Man on July 14, 2009, 05:56:03 PM
Where are you suppose to get your wood from anyway? do you buy it? or is there a tree farm of some sort and you can just chop and pay for what you take?
just another way for them to make money is all. AFAIK, they are just signing some papers. and maybe 1/8th of that are charged by the DMV.
your city boy is showing dude.
;D
Subways and tall buildings.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 14, 2009, 04:40:40 AM
a cheap gas bill is probably about the only thing cheap about living in California
Jud, have you ever lived here? You constantly pop off about CA but I don't recall you ever having posted that you lived here.
Property is more expensive here but that's because it's here and not in Ohio. Other then that, stuff cost about the same and we get paid a bit more here for the most part. Not to mention, as far as food most everything is fresh because we grow our own fruits and vegetables, we have an Ocean full of seafood, and we make our own cheese and dairy products. We get to lanesplit, we don't have a "riding season", and we have Laguna Seca. I can smell the ocean from my overpriced house, I can see snow on the mountains from my front yard (in the winter), and I can be at the Baja 1000 in two hours.
We also have eBay and Paypal here making us money....
^ All the reasons why I hope I can get a boat out of San Diego when all is said and done...
i lived there (CA) for a bit, and lived next to it while working there for several years. my observation was that some things were a LOT more expensive, such as electricity, gasoline, and a few other commodities that slip my mind at the moment. other things were, if not cheaper, then at least comparable, and often fresher, such as produce and seafood. registering a car in CA was a huge expense, while in OR, it was so cheap that the state has a special task force to catch out of state people who try and register their cars illegally.
interestingly enough, my CA income tax was significantly lower than my OR income tax. I suppose that had to do with population size and the lack of sales tax in OR.........not entirely sure.
i will keep the rest of my CA observations to myself, since they are not germane to the topic at this point.
Some of the electricity price and rolling brownouts were due to Enron's shenanigans.
Quote from: hbliam on July 14, 2009, 06:15:33 PM
Jud, have you ever lived here? You constantly pop off about CA but I don't recall you ever having posted that you lived here.
Nope, never personally lived in California.
However, that doesn't mean I know nothing about what it costs to live there.
Just because one is from the Midwest does not mean they live a "sheltered" life and don't know what it is like living in other states.
750k for a 3,000sq foot track home in San Diego is not my idea of a reasonable cost of living. But to each their own. or my Aunt selling some 1500sq ft house with a pool in Orange County for over a million.
The houses are expensive because it's what the market will bear, period. If people are willing to pay tons of money to live close to the things they value, why shouldn't you charge them accordingly...
The west coast seems to be more expensive than the midwest as a general rule. It's generally nice, so it generally costs more because more people want to live there.
CA is a very nice place to live in my experience. The only reason I left the Bay Area was that housing was too expensive, and the crowds got on my nerves. Other than that it was a very nice place to live. Awesome weather, superb food, limitless outdoor activities, great nightlife, etc.
I'd still love to live in Truckee...or maybe Auburn/Grass Valley.
Quote from: NAKID on July 15, 2009, 06:48:08 AM
The houses are expensive because it's what the market will bear, period. If people are willing to pay tons of money to live close to the things they value, why shouldn't you charge them accordingly...
Well yeah, that is true.
But in San Diego, it seems the housing market tends to crash about every 10 years.
A former co-worker of mine lost about 85k on his house 7 years ago when the market bottomed.
Then it went back up of course.....
and now one guy was trying to relocate back her for work, but his house decreased in value by about 200k.
That is one hell of a volatile market.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 15, 2009, 07:25:35 AM
Well yeah, that is true.
But in San Diego, it seems the housing market tends to crash about every 10 years.
A former co-worker of mine lost about 85k on his house 7 years ago when the market bottomed.
Then it went back up of course.....
and now one guy was trying to relocate back her for work, but his house decreased in value by about 200k.
That is one hell of a volatile market.
Enjoy: www.patrick.net (//http://)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 15, 2009, 07:25:35 AM
That is one hell of a volatile market.
there are less volatile areas of the state.
Quote from: derby on July 15, 2009, 08:02:35 AM
there are less volatile areas of the state.
No kidding.
California is a big state