http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32426383/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32426383/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/)
[clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Well done, Sir. Well done.
Sad that it had to go down at all.
Good though, that he was prepared to do what he did.
I think this pretty much sums it up:
"He died in the hands of God," said a neighborhood resident, Vincent Gayle, pointing to the blood-spattered pavement by the church. "But what goes around comes around."
Armed robbery is a high-risk lifestyle to lead. You do it long enough, eventaully somebody will refuse to take your shit.
I'm surprised Bloomberg hasn't rode in on his white horse and forced the arrest of this obvious "evildoer" [puke]
Hell put me in for a whole case of shells
Quote from: Cicero on August 15, 2009, 08:42:33 AM
I'm surprised Bloomberg hasn't rode in on his white horse and forced the arrest of this obvious "evildoer" [puke]
he'll make some comment about how if the guns were illegal then the armed robbers wouldn't have been armed..
wait.. those guns were illegal.. ?
Quote from: zarn02 on August 15, 2009, 07:22:28 AM
Armed robbery is a high-risk lifestyle to lead. You do it long enough, eventaully somebody will refuse to take your shit.
+1 Live by the sword die by the sword.
Walking into someones home or business with loaded guns with the intent to steal or harm really isn't a good idea. Fortunately his employees are still alive! [clap] I feel terrible for the one employee that was pistol whipped. That person just showed up to work to do his or her job.
I figure if you are going to thrive in that line of work
why threaten?
just kill everybody
it would limit these kinds of job hazards
Quote from: Monsterlover on August 15, 2009, 07:09:29 AM
Sad that it had to go down at all.
Why kind of kool-aide you drinking?? I want some. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Mother on August 15, 2009, 09:19:59 AM
I figure if you are going to thrive in that line of work
why threaten?
just kill everybody
it would limit these kinds of job hazards
two times in one day I agree with you.
This
has
got
to
STOP
(http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/07/31/lolcatsdotcomclrru77b0nle3vmx.jpg)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 15, 2009, 12:22:40 PM
Why kind of kool-aide you drinking?? I want some. [thumbsup]
It's red. But besides that all I said was it was sad it happened at all. I didn't say I was surprised, or that it was a strange incident.
Sad that it went down does not = sad the shop owner pulled the trigger.
Quote from: bobspapa on August 15, 2009, 12:42:28 PM
(http://www.lolcats.com/images/u/07/31/lolcatsdotcomclrru77b0nle3vmx.jpg)
Joel yer mah heeero. [clap]
Bravo, old man. [clap]
My only disappointment lies in the fact that two of the perps are still alive. Now we'll get to spend hundreds of thousands trying, housing, and "rehabilitating" the assholes.
From the article;
"Police said Augusto didn't have a required permit for the weapon used in the headline-grabbing shooting the Daily News called a "Pump-Action Ending."
Somehow, I doubt the assailant's guns had the required permits either...
Quote from: hihhs on August 15, 2009, 04:24:46 PM
From the article;
{Police said Augusto didn't have a required permit for the weapon used in the headline-grabbing shooting the Daily News called a "Pump-Action Ending."}
Somehow, I doubt the assailants guns had the required permits either...
Yeah, but I doubt they are going to charge him. I imagine it would be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
Quote from: ducatiz on August 15, 2009, 05:55:23 PM
Yeah, but I doubt they are going to charge him. I imagine it would be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I hope not. Fact is "Gus" may have saved a lot of people.
Quote from: howie on August 15, 2009, 06:49:25 PM
I hope not. Fact is "Gus" may have saved a lot of people.
Sad but true.
but on the other hand, if DA Johnson charges him, it might be enough to piss off enough people to get the stupid laws changes (but I digress)
I do feel bad for him -- he really sounds like it upset him pretty bad.
Saving people by killing others in that situation can't be fun.
It did seem like he was upset with what he had to do.
Can't say I'd disagree if I had to lay some people down.
I read that he had a permit.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/back-at-work-harlem-store-owner-recounts-shooting/?hp (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/back-at-work-harlem-store-owner-recounts-shooting/?hp)
Gus should retire and get out of Harlem asap.....his 'heroism' won't travel far there.
Bernhard Goetz did his work on the subway in midtown.
Quote from: OT on August 16, 2009, 08:18:43 PM
Gus should retire and get out of Harlem asap.....his 'heroism' won't travel far there.
Bernhard Goetz did his work on the subway in midtown.
You haven't been around that part of Harlem recently have you?
Quote from: OT on August 16, 2009, 08:18:43 PM
Gus should retire and get out of Harlem asap.....his 'heroism' won't travel far there.
Bernhard Goetz did his work on the subway in midtown.
I think his heroism will travel far there. People (even in Harlem) don't want to get robbed.
Goetz shot unarmed people who were "panhandling" (before they were going to rob him), different scenario.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08172009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/man_shot_during_harlem_burglary_out_on_b_185043.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/08172009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/man_shot_during_harlem_burglary_out_on_b_185043.htm)
[bang]
Quote from: Exar Kun on August 17, 2009, 07:26:38 AM
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08172009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/man_shot_during_harlem_burglary_out_on_b_185043.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/08172009/news/regionalnews/manhattan/man_shot_during_harlem_burglary_out_on_b_185043.htm)
[bang]
Why shouldn't he allowed to be out?
The Judge set a bond, which is probably reasonable for what the crime was, and the guy posted it.
Happens all the time.
He must have been at work a long time to get that 60k, oh wait....
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 17, 2009, 07:29:56 AM
Why shouldn't he allowed to be out?
The Judge set a bond, which is probably reasonable for what the crime was, and the guy posted it.
Happens all the time.
it is the "presumption of innocence" vs the "accused of a violent crime" problem.
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2009, 09:18:57 AM
it is the "presumption of innocence" vs the "accused of a violent crime" problem.
But that would be a fundamental change in the court system, right?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 17, 2009, 09:27:38 AM
But that would be a fundamental change in the court system, right?
not really, it wouldn't be a hard sell in many places to change the law to require no bail for some accused. it is done on a court's discretion basis now. bail can be withheld for those who have a "flight risk" demonstrated.
if there is sufficient prima facie evidence of a violent crime (as there is here) i would argue that bail never be offered.
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2009, 09:33:02 AM
not really, it wouldn't be a hard sell in many places to change the law to require no bail for some accused. it is done on a court's discretion basis now. bail can be withheld for those who have a "flight risk" demonstrated.
if there is sufficient prima facie evidence of a violent crime (as there is here) i would argue that bail never be offered.
Well yeah, I understand in certain cases that bail should NOT be offered to a "defendant."
I just think it throws out that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.
who knows, you are a lawyer, I am a C-List Actor. What do I know?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 17, 2009, 09:40:21 AM
Well yeah, I understand in certain cases that bail should NOT be offered to a "defendant."
I just think it throws out that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.
who knows, you are a lawyer, I am a C-List Actor. What do I know?
it doesn't throw it it. prima facie is a fairly strong level of evidence. in other words, you have multiple eye-witnesses in ideal conditions, video and corroborating circumstances (i.e. individual was known to the others and was full of buckshot)
in the situation here, there is plenty -- oodles, even -- of prima facie evidence.
So it really comes down to the Judge
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 17, 2009, 09:40:21 AM
Well yeah, I understand in certain cases that bail should NOT be offered to a "defendant."
I just think it throws out that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing.
who knows, you are a lawyer, I am a C-List Actor. What do I know?
Doesn't holding them then "throw out innocent till proven guilty"? I mean if they are innocent, why are you holding them?
Quote from: hihhs on August 15, 2009, 04:24:46 PM
From the article;
{Police said Augusto didn't have a required permit for the weapon used in the headline-grabbing shooting the Daily News called a "Pump-Action Ending."}
Somehow, I doubt the assailants guns had the required permits either...
all I have to say is: 2nd Admendment
Quote from: spolic on August 17, 2009, 11:36:08 AM
all I have to say is: 2nd Admendment
Don't take the lords name in vain?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 17, 2009, 11:04:13 AM
So it really comes down to the Judge
Almost everything in the court is.
Quote from: Pakhan on August 17, 2009, 11:32:47 AM
Doesn't holding them then "throw out innocent till proven guilty"? I mean if they are innocent, why are you holding them?
No, not if there is good cause to do it. Remember there is a bail hearing where the prosecution has to state cause for denying bail. Usually the main reason for denying bail is "flight risk" where the defendant has skipped bail previously or has a demonstrable likelihood of leaving town to avoid prosecution.
Plus, where there is prima facie evidence, there is an almost perfect correlation of conviction. Judges and juries love prima facie evidence, it's basically the equivalent of aan admissible video tape of the accused doing the crime.
That's my point though, held on bail or no bail does not mean guilty. It's just prudent imho
This is getting kinda close....
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2648/3831713734_089475e450.jpg)
just sayin' ;)
I don't think the argument here is whether or not he shot them, it's whether or not a crime was committed. There is prima facia evidence that the shooting was justified, and legal. Given the guys apparently clean history, he isn't a risk to society. Absolutely no reason he should be locked up.
Quote from: Dan on August 17, 2009, 02:45:57 PM
I don't think the argument here is whether or not he shot them, it's whether or not a crime was committed. There is prima facia evidence that the shooting was justified, and legal. Given the guys apparently clean history, he isn't a risk to society. Absolutely no reason he should be locked up.
talking about the perp, not the shopowner-shooter.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 17, 2009, 01:50:49 PM
This is getting kinda close....
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2648/3831713734_089475e450.jpg)
just sayin' ;)
just sayin'
(http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/butt-plug.jpg)
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2009, 05:34:49 PM
just sayin'
(http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/butt-plug.jpg)
Gee tizz...
I was bein all friendly...
and you want to be confrontational?
Quote from: ducpainter on August 17, 2009, 05:37:04 PM
Gee tizz...
I was bein all friendly...
and you want to be confrontational?
hell no, i was offering you a present!
:-D
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2009, 05:34:49 PM
just sayin'
(http://evilbeetgossip.film.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/butt-plug.jpg)
1. Is that what I think it is?
and
2. Where can I get one......um....for a friend.....
FYI... it's NOT a grenade.
As a gun owner, faced with the decision to pull the trigger and end the life of another person in order to defend the life of yet another person is the scariest part of knowing which end to point at the bad guy. My wife and I live alone, no children. If I *had* to I would end the life of an intruder once he endangered my wife. If mine is the only life endangered, I'll happily go hand-to-hand rather than rely on the gun.
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on August 17, 2009, 07:19:51 PM
FYI... it's NOT a grenade.
I didn't think it was a grenade [evil]
Quote from: Pakhan on August 17, 2009, 07:27:19 PM
I didn't think it was a grenade [evil]
It could be what you think it is and also a grenade.
yeesh
that would be a pretty f'ed up way to go
Quote from: ducatiz on August 17, 2009, 05:33:18 PM
talking about the perp, not the shopowner-shooter.
Sorry, that's what I get for not reading the link. Now I agree, it's hard to believe they allowed bail.
Quote from: howie on August 17, 2009, 09:12:12 PM
It could be what you think it is and also a grenade.
Puts a whole new spin on explosive diarrhea
That article was a good read, i'd like to buy that guy a steak dinner. I'm not sorry for the moms of the kids, and I'm not sorry for the neighborhood. Hell, I think the neighborhood is safer now, and what that guy did was right.
Its a shame he had to do it, but its also a shame they decided to try an armed robbery.
Quote from: ato memphis on August 18, 2009, 06:06:43 PM
That article was a good read, i'd like to buy that guy a steak dinner. I'm not sorry for the moms of the kids, and I'm not sorry for the neighborhood. Hell, I think the neighborhood is safer now, and what that guy did was right.
Its a shame he had to do it, but its also a shame they decided to try an armed robbery.
Well said.
i'd hate to be in his (store owner's) shoes.
worse, i'd hate to be in the shoes of the dead guys
sad to have to end a life though... just sayin'
Quote from: ato memphis on August 18, 2009, 06:06:43 PM
That article was a good read, i'd like to buy that guy a steak dinner. I'm not sorry for the moms of the kids, and I'm not sorry for the neighborhood. Hell, I think the neighborhood is safer now, and what that guy did was right.
Its a shame he had to do it, but its also a shame they decided to try an armed robbery.
Im right there with you but,
careful. . .
you might get accused of drinking kool-aid. . .
i'll be sticking to my glass bottle coca cola made with actual sugar rather than high fructose corn syrup.
Quote from: r_ciao on August 18, 2009, 09:22:59 PM
i'd hate to be in his (store owner's) shoes.
worse, i'd hate to be in the shoes of the dead guys
sad to have to end a life though... just sayin'
difference.
the store owner was forced into the situation, and his actions saved the lives of his employees and his own.
the robbers had a option. they decided to use force to try and take property and threaten life. they got what they deserved.
sad to end a life.. yes.. but much worse to let one be taken..
just sayin'
Glad his rusty ol' pump kept on tickin'
Quote from: ato memphis on August 19, 2009, 08:40:00 AM
Glad his rusty ol' pump kept on tickin'
was it definitely a pump? that is great. i wonder what model it was and if it was true that he'd not used it since he got it (20 years?)
I figured it had to be if it still worked, or a double. Can't imagine any semi auto not jamming after years of neglect and zero cleaning after the 'test firing'.
Looks like a Mossberg "Persuader"
He "persuaded" them to leave.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kulnm8Gjhh8/SoVCGOgzt3I/AAAAAAAAOuA/A3JZdPCSC3M/s320/cop_carries_shotgun.jpg)
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/08/harlem-business-owner-shoots-2-thugs.html (http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/08/harlem-business-owner-shoots-2-thugs.html)
Quote from: ducatiz on August 19, 2009, 09:16:41 AM
was it definitely a pump? that is great. i wonder what model it was and if it was true that he'd not used it since he got it (20 years?)
"Winchester 12-gauge pump-action with a pistol-grip handle"
Quote from: Pakhan on August 19, 2009, 09:21:27 AM
"Winchester 12-gauge pump-action with a pistol-grip handle"
gotcha, then it's not a mossy for sure?
What Wins 1200 or 1300 was sold with a pistol grip?
I don't remember any.
I'd like a Serbu, but would get the minishells so i'd have more than 3 shots:
(http://www.serbu.com/top/super_shorty_870.jpg)
It may claim to be a winchester, but the receiver and pistol grip mount look identical to my mossy 500.
Quote from: ato memphis on August 19, 2009, 09:24:53 AM
It may claim to be a winchester, but the receiver and pistol grip mount look identical to my mossy 500.
yeah, that's exactly what it looks like to me in that pic.
they are similar in contour to the win 1300/1200 though.
then again, it's the new york press.
I took the info about the gun from this article: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/back-at-work-harlem-store-owner-recounts-shooting/?hp (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/14/back-at-work-harlem-store-owner-recounts-shooting/?hp)
I have a moss 500, and it does look similar to the pic of what the cop is holding. But I'm not gun pro.
[edit]
Quote from: Pakhan on August 19, 2009, 09:37:56 AM
I have a moss 300, and it does look similar to the pic of what the cop is holding. But I'm not gun pro.
500
i bet its actually the mossy. they were sold in the PG form in a kit. two barrels and two butts. I bet he got that kit and left the cylinder bore barrel on with the pistol grip. he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to go buy a pistol grip and put it on a Winchester.
I just can't remember a 1200 or 1300 ever being sold with a pg. Or any other Win shotgun.
well, its interesting enough to me that it was even identified as a shotgun by the press, rather than a assault shotgun, ak-47.
Quote from: ducatiz on August 19, 2009, 09:21:09 AM
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kulnm8Gjhh8/SoVCGOgzt3I/AAAAAAAAOuA/A3JZdPCSC3M/s320/cop_carries_shotgun.jpg)
http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/08/harlem-business-owner-shoots-2-thugs.html (http://queenscrap.blogspot.com/2009/08/harlem-business-owner-shoots-2-thugs.html)
Looks like a PG with folding stock. See perpendicular piece below policeman's left hand.
Rage Against The Machine- pistol grip pump (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHXZdDIkwWI#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
(audio NSFW)
Quote from: rgramjet on August 19, 2009, 11:24:36 AM
Looks like a PG with folding stock. See perpendicular piece below policeman's left hand.
if you enlarge the pic, that is actually some genuine new york city "street ooze"
Quote from: ato memphis on August 19, 2009, 10:54:24 AM
well, its interesting enough to me that it was even identified as a shotgun by the press, rather than a assault shotgun, ak-47.
Just like the news media referenced the guy outside the "rally" in Arizona as having a "military assault rifle"
apparently they have yet to figure out to be "assault" means it has a select fire option.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on August 19, 2009, 12:25:51 PM
Just like the news media referenced the guy outside the "rally" in Arizona as having a "military assault rifle"
apparently they have yet to figure out to be "assault" means it has a select fire option.
well you know how that goes...
Quote"The semi-automatic weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons â€" anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun â€" can only increase that chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons." â€" Josh Sugarman, 1988, Violence Policy Center.