Ducati Monster Forum

I am doing the unthinkable...selling the monster to buy a track bike.  The Monster has been a great bike but a track bike it is not.

My budget allows me to consider a late model 748 or an early model 749.  In this part of the world they are worth roughly the same; the 748 will come in a about 1k cheaper.  Both bikes will be in stock form with exhaust only.

Can someone who has ridden them both on the street or track offer any advice on the differences in the bikes?  I know the 749 has a little more power but what else is different between the bikes from a riders perspective. 

Any other advice on the tunablility, service issues, parts availability etc. is also greatly appreciated.  I am running the bike in the Ducati Cup up here which has a 118hp limit.  Big power is not important, although I would like the option to reliably get up to the HP limit over the next couple years (Duc shop here I come!).

Thanks,
KNG

talk to tigre. (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87)



and it's not the unthinkable at all.  only, if it weren't for the Cup, i'd tell you to get a japanese 600...  =)

hush you... ;D

+1 on talking to tigre. He's been racing a 749R (GRRR) the past three years, and had a 749S before that.

Also, consider this: are you racing it, or just trying to have a lot of fun? The service interval on either bike is 6000 miles so I don't think maintenance will differ all that much. And you can get plenty fast on a 749. I'd almost buy the 748 and dump the extra money into suspension.

That's fine, but the 748 is more prone to rocker issues and can eat $$ in a hurry.

I've ridden and own the **6/8 bikes...they steer like trucks.

The **9 bikes are much better handling so I'm told and have fewer rocker issues, but have ecu/wiring issues instead. The 848/1098 are even better...again so I'm told.

All true. I've ridden both and the **8 series does steer like a truck. The handling on those is bad enough that you would be taking a step backwards. (for racing) And yes I've had the **8 series on the track with full Ohlins, magnesium wheels, all the trick better handling stuff and it's still terrible. The rockers are a very serious issue too. I had flakes twice, cost me thousands!
The 749 is an improvement...not great but an improvement. And I've also ridden the new generation... :o They are awesome...almost japanese in the way they handle.
Keep watching WERA, there have been some great Ducs for sale lately. There were two 749Rs that both went for $10K recently. One of them was from Canada even. I don't know how far from you.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230012 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230012)  This would be good for your class. You would have a fighting chance with this. I rode one of these (not with that motor in it) two times this season. It corners slow but it's not too bad. We ran it in a 5 hour until we burned up the clutch.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=229358 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=229358)  This is awesome. AMA FX bike here. For the price, it's incredible.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230403 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=230403)  Another 749R...this is more than they have been going for but if you wait, it may go down.

I will add that a 748/9** chassis bike can steer and handle pretty well with the right profile tire on the front.

I still think the OP would be better off with a 749.

So is the 749 isn't all that great what is the best option under 118hp that isn't a 848.  A early 999 or 996?

Doesn't seem to be much too power difference between the 99* engines, at least in stock form, about 4 HP:
http://www.bikeboy.org/996998999comp.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/996998999comp.html)

With a HP limit, you're better off with a big engine in a mild state of tune compared to a small one that's hotter.

A 996 will still have the rocker issues of the desmoquattro but fits the hp limit. DAMHIK   [bang] [bang]

I think a 999 will exceed the limit.

That leaves a 749 which is way under the limit, but can be built to 923 and be in the hp area you need.

All hp numbers will depend on the dyno they use.

edit...

Nicks' post makes sense.

That would be my first choice.  There is guy up here with a bone stock (no exhaust even) 999 making 115 at the wheel on the club dyno.  It is one of the early 999 he says, i guess the later ones had higher hp.

Dunno how much power difference a set of cans would make, but I suspect the louder engine note would make it a bit easier to ride.

I've not raced an SBK, but on my S4 it sure was easier to tell how the engine was pulling when I could hear it.

Ah, that's why we do it...so we can hear how the engine is pulling. Those car alarms are just coincidental...oh, that's not a smile. I'm just stretching my face ;D

Yep, that's it exactly.  [beer]

I have ridden briefly both a **9 and and **8 chassis bike, and in my opinion, some of issues with either come down to 2 main things, 1)body ergonomics and 2)spending the money to have the bike set-up for you properly. I know everyone here agree's wholeheartedly about the latter half of that. Lets face it, if your body frame doesn't want to peacably co-exist with a piece of machinery, no matter how much you fold yourself into it like a pretzel or stretch like a piece of taffy, it just may not be the right bike for you and you may not ever find a co-existance that works with it.

Now, maybe I am the voice of dissent here with what you should think about doing, but I have seen some Sport Classic's and Paul Smart's hotted up nicely putting high 90's to low 100's in HP ( after putting in and tuning 1080 kits and things along that nature) and with the right suspension, you can run hard and fast  and have some lower maintenance costs in the long run. Maybe I am off base here, just seems like a better option to me.

A 2V would be my first choice, they are just very hard to find up here.

Maybe I need to explain my "steer like a truck" comment a little better.

A 996 requires a lot of input to get the thing turned in. Once the process is started the bike is very stable, holds it's line really well, and responds to inputs normally. I think the added weight and different geometry of the SBK chassis made the transition from the SS more difficult.

That said a triangulated front tire shape made all the difference in turn in for me. I don't know what KNG will be running for rubber, but if you end up with an early chassis you should keep that in mind.

I can run slicks in the class.  The new Bridgestone BT003 slick has a very triangular profile.  Most guys run Pirellis up here as the track support seems to be the best.

I would agree with that. They are very difficult to turn in, but once commited, feel very stable. I will add that they tend to run wide out of corners too.

Tire selection is key but even with the right profile, that chassis is no comparison to the new designs, and can never be as nice as a modern I-4 middleweight.

Someone needs to check their swing arm angle. ;)

I completely agree about the newer chassis designs, the 848/1098 being light years ahead of either of the older ones.

up where? in the Great White North?

what about finding one built by Guy Martin?

Those bikes are really nice.  Lots of trick bits.

But with a 2V built to those specs the reliability/longevity might be cost prohibitive. You don't get a 2V over 100 hp without sacrificing some of what makes them so bulletproof.

No FHE with either of those.

I've always run Michelins. I know that many here hate them. I haven't been bitten by their lack of feed back when they go off.

If I'm lucky I'll switch before that happens.

My wife says it's just fine....oh wait [cheeky]

there is nothing saying you have to go to the lengths that I have seen, and while it might not be as reliable as what they are untouched, they certainly aren't going to necessarily be prone to grenading or anything, unless you seriously push the limitations. I am talking the smaller 1080 bore kit with some performance cams and a little cleaning up of the porting to better the flowing of the heads with some of the normal mods to follow isn't as radical as some that I have seen and still makes for respectable HP #'s and good feel and response.

if a 749 ends up being the ticket...here are 2 bikes that a local racer here pointed out that I thought I;d share....


2005 Ducati 749R
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showpost.php?p=703328&postcount=1 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showpost.php?p=703328&postcount=1)
Ducati Corsa Billet Clutch Piston
Ducati Corsa Electronic Gearchange
Ducati Corsa Ergal Belt Rollers
Ducati Corsa Ergal SPKT 40T 520
Ducati Corsa Ergal SPKT 41T 520
Ducati Corsa Fairing Stay & Wire Harness
Ducati Corsa Fuel Filler Cap
Ducati Corsa LTWT SPKT 14T 520
Ducati Corsa LTWT SPKT 15T 520
Ducati Corsa Magnesium Clutch Side Casing
Ducati Corsa Magnesium head cover kit, rear - alt. side
Ducati Corsa Magnesium head inner cover kit - timing side
Ducati Corsa Light Alloy Clutch
Ducati Corse Racing Kit
GP Suspension
Leo Vince 57mm Exhaust FAC
Power Commander III
RK GOLD 520 Chain
Section 8 Superbike 3 GAL fuel tank
SharkSkinz
SpeedyMoto Anodized Clutch Springs
SpeedyMoto Clutch Cover
SpeedyMoto Water Pump Cover
Swing Arm Sliders
Throttle cam system
Titanium hndlbr rsv cvs
Zero Gravity Windscreen
Spare wheels with rotor's
Speedy moto adjustable clip on's
brembo remote master cylinder
848 Donnie Unger built motor from Ducpond motorsport's

I have all the stock bodywork and the R tank.wiring loom etc.the bike comes with a ton of spare's gauge pack ,clip on's, radiator , vortex faring stay.
Asking 13,500 for the whole set up. You can email me at jrockcolors@yahoo.com
 
05' Ducati 749S
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showpost.php?p=706647&postcount=1 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showpost.php?p=706647&postcount=1)
This bike was used as a back up bike to the R bike.It was race prepped and mostly sat in the trailer. It has 3978 miles and all service records. I also have all the street bodywork, lights,pipe, etc.It can be switched back to street trim if you like before picking up or shipping. Here is a set up list.
Termi pipe
DP race wire harness
Power commander
DP air filters
Shark skins body work
Yoyodyne upper faring stay
Race tech 20mm kit up front
Ohlins shock in rear
All suspension done by MRP Motorsports in Baltimore
All fluids are fresh and ready to go
This bike runs great and handles even better.Asking 7,800 obo
Email me at jrockcolors@yahoo.com for better pics and more info.

My favorite **9 bike is the 749R, such a beautiful bike. If you have the cash, I'd definitely go for the 749 over the 748 but just be prepared to spend money on maintenance & parts. Remember of course that you may not have the parts availability that you might with a more common bike and that you'll probably need some specific tools in order to work on the bike.

I'd be very tempted to trade my 675 for a 749R... *drool*

^^  That 749S is a steal   :o

Actually both are a great value.

I love my 749 but have yet to take her to the track.  She definately yearns to be flogged more that I can safely do on the street.   [evil]

Good luck with your search.  [thumbsup]

Id do that for just the 749s. BUt id much perfer the 999S.

I've sat but never ridden a 748/996/8 but i have the 749S. Im not sure how different the two are, but the 749 is so hard to steer, you might as well parallel park into a tight spot without power steering. You really have to grow some balls and man handle it.

no matter what bike you choose...now is the time to buy as people are dumping stuff so as to not have storage space incurred and the deals are to be had now...and it gives you the winter to tinker and tune and get ready.