Ducati Monster Forum

We all know that a double sided swingarm is stronger and lighter at the same time. so why does ducati use a SSS on their SBKs? Its not like they are going to race them in endurance races. their main goal is WSBK.

"Tradition" that was established after the 916/996/998 I would imagine.  The 999 went back to the DSS at the insistence of the Corse race division due to its superior design to only have the customer base raise holy hell.  So the SSS came back for the current generation of SBKs.

It's cool.

What other reason would you need?

Next you'll probably tell me you hate dry clutch clatter and the color red.

Well...  Starting to become a fan of orange...

Nothing wrong with liking other colors as well. . .

hows that Dookie treating you ;)

That bike is STUPID fun!

You may not blaspheme in this holy ducati house!

Whatever

FYI, the correct engineering solution is almost never the answer.  ;D

As a generality that is true, but things are not always equal.  The SSS on the 1098 is both stronger and lighter than the DSS on the 999.  Could they have made an even lighter DSS?  Possibly, we will never know.  Why did they want to go back to a SSS?  Who knows.

Sure they could have made a lighter one. . .

titanium or magnesium

:D

Carbon fiber

Yea,...it just looks totally awesome.  I like the SSS better. 

Spot on. Ducati Corse used to complain a lot about the SSSwingarm and all the headaches it caused for setup due to the massive flex issues. True, they look nice but I prefer dual sided. I really like the GP looking one on the 696.

I think that their leaked marketing document spelled out why pretty clearly - customers wanted it. You can call it tradition or market demands but the fact is that Ducati made the decision not for technical reasons.

Personally I don't really think it matters, no one on this board (ok, there may be a couple of exceptions) is capable of pushing the SSS to the point where a DSS would make a difference and sales drive the overall development, racing drives the refinement & tweaking.

This topic has been covered in detail plenty of times. Some people will always like either a SSS or a DSS irrespective of the pros and cons either way. I prefer a SSS because as a rider, it makes it really easy to adjust chain tension (no checking alignment), it's easier to clean the wheel and it just looks awesome.

corse didn't, foggy did... at one point,, they made him a dssa 916/996 to test (and likely told him to stfu afterwards).

Looks...they just look better. That is subjective of course, but it seems to be the overriding belief.

The 1198 SSS is lighter and stiffer than the 999 DSS (as was mentioned before)...

After owning DSS and SSS bikes, I'd have a hard time going back to DSS. Chain maintenance and tire changes are WAY easier on SSS bikes.  8)

+1 for the most part. Chain adjustment is super easy & getting the rear wheel off & on is stupid fast.

Personally I think the new SSS is bulky looking and a tad ugly compared to the 916 style but I understand and accept that it needs to be in order to work.

I would agree with that.  It's about giving custom something that no other manufacturer is able to provide - whether it be the SSS/rear wheel, the overall style, or the racing prestige.  How else can Ducati charge a premium over the Japanese4?

Truer words have never been spoken.  [beer]


Where did that info come from?

To me this ends the debate

(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/ducati-desmosedici-carbon-frame-qatar-1-560x373.jpg)

Ducati. This is what they claimed when the 1098 was released, and they were explaining the new manufacturing process for the SSS (and that big ass weld down the side).

Thanks, that's kinda what I remembered.  :)

Me too.

No one is (or should be) debating that the SSS is a better solution technically with the exception of endurance racing. The DSS is on the GP bike because it's a technical blue sky bike. The 1x98/848 is a road bike and needs to sell, it sells better with SSS. To sum up, you're right, it does end the technical debate but the debate about the SSS on production bikes is a different discussion.

I was leaning toward the simple fact that people just liked SSS on ducati's. Monsters get modded to SSS well before the S2R came out.

Yup, I know the first guy that ever did it. He did it on a 900 back around '97. People went nuts for it.

Al Gore?

This comes up every few months, and the answers are always the same.

I propose we next debate the relative merits of

*stops writing*

Sorry. I'm having a cranky day. :P

SSS's look great - as long as you're looking from the side they're not on -

Just IMHO mind you

I heard ducati is making a hypermotard  ;D

This is very true.  Seems some bikes get to be so "single sided" with the sss, the open clutch, the exhaust, the belts or trick covers etc.

+1  Thats why everyone photographs them from that side.  ;)

I actually get the most comments about the the side the swing-arm is on. Probably because I work in a weld shop.

While I'll give ya the +1, I will still say that most well-done modified SSSA (or not) ducatis look just as good from either side.  In fact, my favorite feature about the SSSA (and my s2r in particular) is that it's asymmetry offers "more to look at," by finishing off the assymetry of the lower half of the bike along with the engine.  I also think ducati did a damn fine job mass producing these to look good and function reliably.

I'll also add that you see more photos of the left side of ducatis when they're perched on a stand ;)

I'm not in any way against the sss, my current ride is an S2R1K.  This has just been my observation and like kopfjager said this is why they are always photographed from the right.

Well, as has been said, all the neat goodies are on the right side.

Also, since the bike leans over onto the left, on the stand, the right side is naturally more "display friendly."

yes, like this...

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/IMG_3797a.jpg)

NIIICCCE!! [thumbsup]

What 5-spoke wheels are those above? Really nice and looks spendy.

So that`s why chains are on the ugly side ;D

Magnesium 5 spokes.  Can tell by the cutout on the spokes.  Nearly identical to the stock 5 spokers with about 2/3rd the weight.

I wonder if bike races required pit stops, if more teams would go the SSS route.

I bet they'd at least consider it

That's when you'll need to compare the amount of time you spend on removing the wheel vs the time lost due to additional weight.

removin the wheel on a DSS is probably just as fast as a SSS on a fully raced bike. the sprocket stays on the bike and theres only 1 nut to remove.

Motorbike WEC - Quick change rear (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dYIIqYNIk4#normal)

Please stop trying to put rationality behind an irrational choice. It'll make life easier when you hit corporate america if your soul has already been crushed.

That is a special setup for quick change.  the sprocket is modified, same could be done on the SSS

What do you mean "if" It has been going on for years. No a tire change on a SSS isn't faster than on a DSS, with race set-up. Go watch a 6 or 12 hour race and see for yourself.

Yea, i meant in a race application. Lord knows why you would need that type of setup on a street bike unless you got bling and lightweight on (MW2).

For a SSS, the Sprocket is already separated from the rim. Just the wheel comes out. Thats why i dont see a real benefit to SSS. Their both pretty make the beast with two backsing fast. it almost comes down to who makes a mistake first.


heres some more crazy ass DSS quick changes
Motorbike WEC - Moto 38 Pitstop (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwjgL-2jhxs&feature=related#normal)

Pit Stop Endurance kawasaki team france FIM moto EWC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4dNYT3EviQ&feature=related#normal)

Holy shit that's fast!

Vesrah Suzuki pit stop Barber 2009 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JHFspWYFTE#normal)

Vesrah Suzuki, until this year, were known for fast pit stops.
They raced the WERA Endurance Series and the National Championship Series.

^^^ Nice, 2 wheels rider and fuel in 20 sec.  [thumbsup]  I have seen those guys in action at Road Atlanta and Barber.

and rotors.  of course they have to come and go too, but i wonder if that introduces any problems.

Doesn't appear to be. They 6hr races that I have been to, the lap after the pit stop is faster than the one before.

I don't think the rotors would be a problem. They have some pretty trick quick-change equipment. Notice that they don't remove the calipers for wheel changes. Also, I'm willing to bet they keep a close eye on the rotors and wheels as far as wear and how often they're on the bikes, and I'm sure they start each race with fresh brake pads. (with Vesrah as the main sponsor, there should be no shortage)

The entering and exiting the pits doesn't take much time either. Plus, even if they lose as much as a minute, they should be able to lap much faster with fresh tires and a rested rider and quickly make up the gap. Anyone remember the Daytona 200 Mladin won while taking one more pit-stop than everyone else? (3 stops I think) He was able to lap so much faster on fresh rubber that he more than made up for the time lost in the pits.

I've raced many endurance races and worked the pit crew for others. Normally, when you're out there you get into a great zone and you actually get faster. You get tired but once you get into a zone, you don't want to come in. Your laptimes get better and better all the way until you come in. If the next rider goes out on the first lap and goes faster, then the previous rider probably had a tire fading on him, or got really tired. I hate seeing the board to come in when I'm in the zone unless I'm tired, then I'll just try to survive my last lap and keep the bike upright long enough to hand off. That's what a tired rider will do on his last lap.

As far as what swingarm is faster to change the wheel...doesn't matter. You can set them both up to be fast. I prefer dual sided for a number of reasons. Another that has not been mentioned yet is crash protection. During a lowside with a dual sided, you will usually slide on the spools. It's minimized damage to my tail section many, many times.  [beer]

Or the better rider goes out for his stint.  [thumbsup]

(a proper) quick change setup for the superbike class uses wider triples/fork spacing so the calipers don't need to be removed.

 [laugh]  or that.

Any one knows how much for a set of 5-spoke magnesium wheels? Who makes them?

Cheers

I missed that one.  So, why is there a big ass weld down the side?

It attaches a stiffener located inside the swingarm.

DUCATI 1098 swingarm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsBYU22tfA8#normal)

i thought it was becasue the 2 pieces are made differently. so to connect them you need to weld it.

one section is suppose to be forged and the other cast. or something like htat.

I don't know. I don't see why it would matter how each piece is made though. The point is there are two pieces that need to be welded together.

(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg216/mikesixtysix/blackfog/IMG_3797a.jpg)

Hiya, hate to keep turning up like a bad penny but I am confused about identifying mag and alloy wheels.  I saw the above, asked on page 3 about the rims and got the following response:


then I came across this thread:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=9286.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=9286.0) where it was stated:

"the alloy marchesini's from magnesium ones you mean?
the aluminium alloy ones have the ducati logo and brembo cast into them somewhere on one of the spokes on the late 5 spokes, but they all have a recess on each spoke as a detail addition.
the magnesium marchesinis have plain smooth spokes with no detail at all, no branding cast into them either, and on the front particularly they have a bit of a lip from the side where the tyre bead sits and the edge where it meets the centre with the spokes.
oh and they're quite a bit lighter!"

So now I am confused .... do the mag ones have the cut-out on the spokes or not?

Appreciate the education ....

Cheers

<droooool....>

the magnesium ones have the cut out.
the stock alumium ones dont.

he has it backwards.  scalloped = magnesium.  the factory wheels on the S2R are smooth spoked with a marchesini sticker

Depends which wheels you're talking about.

The OEM 5-spoke cast aluminum Marchesinis on my '02 S4 had the 'rebate' in the spokes just like what's shown on that bike ('Black Fog' IIRC).

My cast magnesium Marchesinis have no 'rebate' on the spokes:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3038/3078640591_6a5cb98cff_o.jpg)

that sucks.  i assumed marchesini did the scalloping as a design feature of the magnesium wheels.  the fact that they went both ways on both types is irritating 

ok, so WTF knows what kind of wheels are on that bike!

Mark knows...he doesn't say if they're magnesium or not, but they're off of special edition SBKs.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=35785.msg627010#msg627010 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=35785.msg627010#msg627010)