http://www.slate.com/id/2249307/?GT1=38001 (http://www.slate.com/id/2249307/?GT1=38001)
discuss
I'm not sure where I stand on this.
While I feel sorry for the girl who died, and her parents, I have to vote for tougher skins. Yes, hazing or bullying is a bad thing, but a lot of kids went through, and go through a lot worse than being shoved into the wall, called a slut, or having a soda thrown at them.
The high school I attended in the late '70s just outside D.C. had 5 murders my senior year, 3 on campus, including one kid who got stabbed in the chest, and thrown in his locker on the Friday before a long weekend. They found him on Tuesday when people complained about the smell.
Bullying in school and amongst kids is a pervasive problem that has been going on as long as there's been kids.
Phoebe's 3 month targeting by the bullies sounds like my entire public school experience.
My heart goes out to her family.
However I didn't know it was a felony to be an asshole to somebody.
I'm not at all confident this will be any solution to the problem.
Thicker skins is a good start.
People who were bullied in school to some degree or another are liable to look at this story and think I didn't check myself out, she's a weaker person for doing it. There is truth to that. These kids should be punished for being evil pregnant doges, but not for the suicide of this girl.
On the other hand, I have never heard anyone say "I was bullied relentlessly throughout school, and thank god for that." Bullying is a common thing, but not an inherently healthy thing, either for the giver or the receiver. You may live through the experience of being bullied and come out a stronger, more secure person, but we shouldn't let bullies go unpunished to force that outcome. To me there is no real value in letting assholes operate with impunity, especially at that age.
the bullies aren't responsible for her suicide. they are asses and should be punished for being bullies.
you can't hold these people accountable for a suicide unless you go back and hold the kids that bullied the kids that carried out the colorado school shootings, responsible for those killings.
the fact is, the people that carry out the acts, homicide or suicide, are responsible for their own actions. those that bullied them are responsible for the bullying. and the teachers and administrators that allow it to take place are responsible for the bullying as well. if they tried to stop half of the bullying going on, HS would be a lot easier.
Can only speculate...she was probably damaged goods before this...
She could have gone to war had she been stronger/healthier and should have been prepared to if she was boffing other girls' BF's
High school is Lord of the Flies in that kids just beginning to develop social orders/breeding rights and norms etc., can be Darwinian
High schools and prisons have a lot in common too much
and closer supervision just makes people more subversive the behavioral pathology is still there
Bullies are usually false-alpha's...they go down easy if one selects the right tools and goes at them with suicidal resolve
poor girl here had that rage...but she turned it inward
Since the internet, facebook, texting, etc., bullying seems to have been taken to a whole new level. It's no longer a shovel in the hallway or derogatory name calling. It can be an all access 24/7 event with now where to hide.
Well put Rat900.
question really is this.
how would you feel if your kid killed themselves because of bullying?
would you really say "well its just normal, my kid should have had a thicker skin and dealt with it, and Its my fault for not teachign them that and I want nothing done to the kids that were hazing my dead kid because well that is just normal growing up."
I call bull$hit, i highly doubt anyone would go so easy if your own kid was DEAD. You would be calling for the heads of the kids you thought pushed your kid to death.
Quote from: sbrguy on April 01, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
I call bull$hit, i highly doubt anyone would go so easy if your own kid was DEAD. You would be calling for the heads of the kids you thought pushed your kid to death.
Or better yet, hunting for them...
Quote from: RAT900 on March 31, 2010, 10:24:57 PM
Can only speculate...she was probably damaged goods before this...
I was thinking the same thing when this story broke.
They are also charging a few of the guys with statutory rape. I wonder if that state uses that term for consensual sex with a minor? I recall reading there was a breakup involved before the bullying really started.
I feel bad for her family.
She took the easy way out in my opinion.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 01, 2010, 05:08:57 AM
They are also charging a few of the guys with statutory rape. I wonder if that state uses that term for consensual sex with a minor?
I believe it was touched on a tiny bit in the article. I
think that the argument is that there is
no consensual sex with a minor because they aren't old enough to consent.
The whole 17 year old with a 15 year old is really tough. It doesn't seem like a huge deal, but now that dude is going to be a "sex offender" the rest of his life.
Quote from: il d00d on March 31, 2010, 07:48:27 PM
/ but we shouldn't let bullies go unpunished to force that outcome. To me there is no real value in letting assholes operate with impunity, especially at that age.
Agreed, but these kids are facing up to ten
years prison time, and felony convictions on their records. That's ridiculous.
Quote from: sbrguy on April 01, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
I call bull$hit, i highly doubt anyone would go so easy if your own kid was DEAD. You would be calling for the heads of the kids you thought pushed your kid to death.
Of course we all would. We're disposed to protect the things we hold dear. That's why we have laws against hunting down the bullies, or the asshole that pulls out in front of you, or the guy who sells you a car that dies a week later, or the priest who molests your son. But the proper venue for these disputes is civil court, not criminal.
Sue the shit out of 'em. The kids(If possible), the parents, the school system. Sue 'em all. But don't ruin the kids futures with felony convictions.
Quote from: Bun-bun on April 01, 2010, 05:42:41 AM
Agreed, but these kids are facing up to ten years prison time, and felony convictions on their records. That's ridiculous.Of course we all would. We're disposed to protect the things we hold dear. That's why we have laws against hunting down the bullies, or the asshole that pulls out in front of you, or the guy who sells you a car that dies a week later, or the priest who molests your son. But the proper venue for these disputes is civil court, not criminal.
Sue the shit out of 'em. The kids(If possible), the parents, the school system. Sue 'em all. But don't ruin the kids futures with felony convictions.
When did death become all about the money?
I couldn't disagree more.
Quote from: sbrguy on April 01, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
question really is this.
how would you feel if your kid killed themselves because of bullying?
would you really say "well its just normal, my kid should have had a thicker skin and dealt with it, and Its my fault for not teachign them that and I want nothing done to the kids that were hazing my dead kid because well that is just normal growing up."
I call bull$hit, i highly doubt anyone would go so easy if your own kid was DEAD. You would be calling for the heads of the kids you thought pushed your kid to death.
not exactly.
some people look inward and blame themselves for their own and their offsprings failures, and some look outward and blame others.
IMO... more times than not, increased penalties does nothing to curb the actual problem. Locking people up with life sentences... people still kill. Chemical castration.... people still abuse kids. Kids and adults have been and, forever will be mean and stupid. Tougher laws usually breeds tougher assholes when you gloss over the problem. If you want killers gone..... kill them. If ya want pedophiles gone...kill them. If you want the bullies gone... don't punish the kindergartner who punches the kid that just took his chocolate milk. But no..... we live in a world where we deal with the problem by housing and feeding the killers, and because the prisons are so full of that shit, they treat the pedophiles as non violent offenders and put them in halfway houses with limited supervision, all in the name of compassion. My wife used to teach the bullies in the court and community schools. It's amazing how much time, money and effort is put into trying to rehab the people who really don't want it..... all in the name of compassion. I think that if that same amount of time and effort is put into teaching the those kids who want to play by the rules what real respect, real honor and what the real world is like, and how to properly deal with it, we'd see fewer kids fold like this young lady did. But we now live in a world where kids play sports where there are no winners, we lower grading curves, we make everything fair. The kid caught defending his chocolate milk is treated same as the kid with the sticky fingers.
In my world.... the girl would have taken a bat to the head of the meanest girl in the bunch, and we on the outside high five her. That'll learn ya for be'n mean.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 01, 2010, 05:45:43 AM
When did death become all about the money?
I couldn't disagree more.
It's not about the money. It's about making the best of an imperfect system, and punishing in proportion to the actions involved.
In this case, these kids gave this girl a lot of grief, but they didn't kill her.
Were their actions a contributing factor in her suicide? Almost certainly.
Did any of them ever entertain the possibility that their actions would have that impact? Almost certainly not.
Did any of them hand her a gun or rope and say "Here, go kill yourself."
No.
Did the parents take any action to stop the harassment? i.e. change schools, contact the administrators, the other kids parents, etc.?
Unknown.
IMO punitive action in this case should be handled in civil litigation, not to gain compensation but to punish those involved in a manner appropriate to their involvement.
Quote from: Bun-bun on April 01, 2010, 06:07:55 AM
It's not about the money. It's about making the best of an imperfect system, and punishing in proportion to the actions involved.
In this case, these kids gave this girl a lot of grief, but they didn't kill her.
Were their actions a contributing factor in her suicide? Almost certainly.
Did any of them ever entertain the possibility that their actions would have that impact? Almost certainly not.
Did any of them hand her a gun or rope and say "Here, go kill yourself."
No.
Did the parents take any action to stop the harassment? i.e. change schools, contact the administrators, the other kids parents, etc.?
Unknown.
IMO punitive action in this case should be handled in civil litigation, not to gain compensation but to punish those involved in a manner appropriate to their involvement.
The imperfect system we agree on. ;)
I, personally, don't think civil courts with the only remedy available being monetary compensation is the right place either.
...and unfortunately that is about as far as i can go given our rules structure. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on April 01, 2010, 06:13:04 AM
The imperfect system we agree on. ;)
I, personally, don't think civil courts with the only remedy available being monetary compensation is the right place either.
...and unfortunately that is about as far as i can go given our rules structure. ;D
I personally think that our forefathers had it right. Put a set of stocks outside the courthouse/town hall, and let people throw rotten veg at the offenders for a few days.
question.... has having made money the great equalizer in all things that should be fair worked out all that well for us?
If the school system spent less money making things monetarily fair for the family of a child bullied, maybe it would have more money to spend on playground conflict resolution training for it's staff.
A few weeks ago, a 16 year old kid goes into a walmart, pics up the intercom and announces that all black people please leave the store. A harmless stupid 16 year old prank. Walmart is now providing counseling for those customers deeply hurt by this great injustice, and expects to also have to pay lot's -o- cash out as restitution. Deep pockets have been emptied for years as a fix and are we as a people any more tolerant, informed or just..... nope, we're still just as stoopid and just as offended. And I..... the one not offended by this 16 year old prank (and not because I'm white), have to pay $3.95 for a Maisto 1/18 scale Ducati 848 when it was just 2.95 last year. That's not fair.
Fair is having the black customers hit the kid who made the announcement with a tubesock with an orange in it. See if he does that again.
Quote from: sbrguy on April 01, 2010, 05:04:25 AM
question really is this.
how would you feel if your kid killed themselves because of bullying?
would you really say "well its just normal, my kid should have had a thicker skin and dealt with it, and Its my fault for not teachign them that and I want nothing done to the kids that were hazing my dead kid because well that is just normal growing up."
I call bull$hit, i highly doubt anyone would go so easy if your own kid was DEAD. You would be calling for the heads of the kids you thought pushed your kid to death.
personally i would go after the school for allowing it to happen on their campus. but i also would have been involved a lot sooner. checking with your kids about bullying should be a normal part of your day. 'hey, how was school today... what's that some kids were bullying you. well, let's see what i can do to help.'
Quote from: Vindingo on April 01, 2010, 05:35:49 AM
I believe it was touched on a tiny bit in the article. I think that the argument is that there is no consensual sex with a minor because they aren't old enough to consent.
The whole 17 year old with a 15 year old is really tough. It doesn't seem like a huge deal, but now that dude is going to be a "sex offender" the rest of his life.
In Indiana, you can be charged with consensual sex with a minor; a guy from my high school got tagged with it when he was a senior (18) and was dating a freshman (15). I guess her parents got pissed off and filed charges.
I am there with you on the age deal. High Schoolers are going to date high schoolers. Hell, in my HS, it was an accomplishment if you dated one of the hot freshman.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 01, 2010, 06:33:23 AM
question.... has having made money the great equalizer in all things that should be fair worked out all that well for us?
<snip>
Fair is having the black customers hit the kid who made the announcement with a tubesock with an orange in it. See if he does that again.
No...
here's the rub...
the girl is dead...what is fair for her family?
If we go far enough back there is the eye for an eye premise, but we've 'evolved' so much farther than that. [roll]
Making these kids murderers doesn't seem to work for some..."they're just kids". [I call bullshit on that. That is one of the reasons we have no personal responsibility in our society. There are no penalties.]
and money doesn't fix anything.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 01, 2010, 06:41:34 AM
No...
here's the rub...
the girl is dead...what is fair for her family?
If we go far enough back there is the eye for an eye premise, but we've 'evolved' so much farther than that. [roll]
Making these kids murderers doesn't seem to work for some..."they're just kids". [I call bullshit on that. That is one of the reasons we have no personal responsibility in our society. There are no penalties.]
and money doesn't fix anything.
The girl is dead... but she killed herself.
Suicide isn't fair for anybody. Fact remains that even tho she was bullied no-one forced her to check out. That was purely her decision.
(not saying that there shouldn't be repercussions for the bullying)
there simply needs to be a law put into the books for 'bullying' and actually... i think it's called terrorizing. it should be a misdameanor (sp?) and for minors goes on their juvenile records. if it's a pattern, then it's moved up to a felony or classified as a felony if it leads to a death (but not from suicide). Suicide is suicide... sorry plain and simple. A person that takes their own life. No one else is responsible for that action. Now, can a person be brought up on charges of terrorizing after a suicide makes those things come to light... sure. but it's not a felony unless those people actually took part in the death.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 01, 2010, 06:41:34 AM
Making these kids murderers doesn't seem to work for some..."they're just kids". [I call bullshit on that. That is one of the reasons we have no personal responsibility in our society. There are no penalties.]
I know we disagree on anything medical.
But there are several studies that say the human brain really doesn't fully mature until we are in are early 20's.
Someone quote me if I am wrong, but I think that is pretty accurate in what I read.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 01, 2010, 06:56:12 AM
I know we disagree on anything medical.
But there are several studies that say the human brain really doesn't fully mature until we are in are early 20's.
Someone quote me if I am wrong, but I think that is pretty accurate in what I read.
That may very well be true.
So because the brain isn't fully developed there should be no consequences for actions?
The question is not that though.
The question is what penalty is appropriate, if any, for these actions?
Quote from: ducpainter on April 01, 2010, 06:41:34 AM
snip
If we go far enough back there is the eye for an eye premise, but we've 'evolved' so much farther than that. [roll]
that not an eye for an eye.... that's make'n orange juice ;)
Some would say we've evolved, some would say we've de-evolved. In a world where we pat ourselves on the back and say we've removed failure and made things fair for our children... the end result has been kids who cave in because they've never known failure. They don't grasp the concept of consequences, because mom and dad reasoned with them for 2 hours at Kmart when they pitched a fit.
I have two great young boys as step kids. My wife babied them. Lots. She had the time to. When I was a kid, my mom didn't have the time. I had to figure lots of things out on my own. That was a curse as well as a blessing. The other day.... we had a wet, naked 10 year old standing in the hallway yelling for his mom to get him a towel. He happened to be standing right next to the cabinet where he knows the towels to be kept. Some would say Michelle is /was the product of evolved better parenting. She listened, she coddled, babied, she never spanked, she made things fair.... and then, some would say she's now dealing with kids who have a difficult time figuring out lifes lil and big puzzles on their own. Some of todays parents will tell you my mom was a bad parent for not putting 210% of her energy into my upbringing... but at least I knew where the towels were and how to wash them. Evolution or De-evolution... thats a tough one.
kids committed suicide back then too. It's not a new issue.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 01, 2010, 06:56:12 AM
I know we disagree on anything medical.
But there are several studies that say the human brain really doesn't fully mature until we are in are early 20's.
Someone quote me if I am wrong, but I think that is pretty accurate in what I read.
from what I've read it's about 18 to 20.
but..... the real growth happen from 0 - 4 ya know, that time in which todays parents are teaching kids about fair and easy.
....and I take yet one more step toward giving up on society altogether....
((I agree wholeheartedly with all your posts on this topic bp))
Quote from: Statler on April 01, 2010, 07:25:08 AM
kids committed suicide back then too. It's not a new issue.
thats why I think (I could be wrong), that there always have been and always will be problems like this and making the penalties stiffer for being a bully, just makes for tougher bullies. I kind'a think the focus needs to be on making kids with tougher hides, and IMO, that means allowing kids to fail more often than they do these days.
A few days ago, Michelle and I had a discussion about advanced technology and how they keep making devices to make our lives simple and easy. Well, just about every device we came up with had some sort of dumbing drawback to it.
TV remotes..... if it's misplaced, all hope for changing a channel seems to be lost
Microwaves.... real cooking is such a lost art, that there are TV shows where the guy who now does what my grandmother once did is now treated like a rockstar.
Cash registers... god help us if the power goes out. same with calculators.
I think the same can be said for societal advancement. one step forward...two steps back.
Maybe it's time to flip the script and go back instead or forward. One step backward, two steps forward.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 01, 2010, 07:44:02 AM
I think the same can be said for societal advancement. one step forward...two steps back.
Maybe it's time to flip the script and go back instead or forward. One step backward, two steps forward.
He's a witch!
He put a hex on my Iphone!
Burn him!!
Crazier than a shit house rat but he does offer some interesting insights into the effects of technology
http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt (http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt)
You've done it now ;D
[popcorn]
both.
kids (and their parents) need to "man up" and learn to fend for themselves. dont take shit from assholes, take responsibility for your actions.......i know, crazy talk.
on the other hand, without reading the article (and im not going to)...sounds like there could have been some kind of intervention which might have averted tragedy.,
Back when I grew up, if somebody hit you, you hit them back. Assuming it didn't escalate wildly, all was good. Even resulted in some eventual new friendships....
future problems
Single Ladies Devestation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9eL3ejXmE#)
At best, we are higher-order primates chock full of pretentious notions about how evolved we are
we have this silly notion that our intellects somehow trump or outweigh the moods, behavior patterns and feelings associated with us as a species ...they don't trump anything........ we just kid ourselves
to cite an example....my dogs know whether or not I am actually going to go into the office before "I" have made up my mind about it
"I" am still debating the idea of getting on a train and sitting in the office for the day....
yet my dogs,, who are master students of my behavior (as opposed to students of what I say or think) have already seen a pattern in my behavior that I am not even aware of.....
it is a pattern that communicates I am not going anywhere near the workplace on that day
I don't know if it is my facial expression sequences, whether or not I go for that 3rd mug of coffee or not...whatever it is they read those telltales and know
well.... so much for me thinking I made the final decision at the conscious-rational level
all I did was backfill a supporting logic or rationale for a decision that was already made by some part of me I don't understand or chat with
we are animals first...everything else is optional and more often than not ,,, just so much "window-dressing"
Firstly, I want to say I'm very impressed at the responses. There are many different views and ideas, some on opposing sides and all have been received very well, and everyone has been pretty respectful, I like that. [thumbsup]
Quote from: il d00d on March 31, 2010, 07:48:27 PM
People who were bullied in school to some degree or another are liable to look at this story and think I didn't check myself out, she's a weaker person for doing it. There is truth to that. These kids should be punished for being evil pregnant doges, but not for the suicide of this girl.
On the other hand, I have never heard anyone say "I was bullied relentlessly throughout school, and thank god for that." Bullying is a common thing, but not an inherently healthy thing, either for the giver or the receiver. You may live through the experience of being bullied and come out a stronger, more secure person, but we shouldn't let bullies go unpunished to force that outcome. To me there is no real value in letting assholes operate with impunity, especially at that age.
I think this was very well said.
Quote from: bobspapa on April 01, 2010, 07:22:12 AM
In a world where we pat ourselves on the back and say we've removed failure and made things fair for our children... the end result has been kids who cave in because they've never known failure. They don't grasp the concept of consequences, because mom and dad reasoned with them for 2 hours at Kmart when they pitched a fit.
This is Huge, Not giving your kids a chance to fail and teaching them that everything is fair is not preparing them for the world. It may be preparing them for the world people would like to live in, but not the one that they're gonna enter at 18.
It's been said plenty in this topic but I think there needs to be a medium. Kids need to be allowed to scrap there knees again, or bang their elbow without being coddled and rushed to the emergency room. They need to learn that you will get hurt, but also learn to reason that even though you're hurt it's really not that bad.
Kids are not being prepared, and that is the parents' fault. Kids are not taking responsibility for their actions, and that is the kids' fault. With everything being made so easy with technology and not wanting to offend someone or giving everyone a trophy because everyone is a winner makes it difficult for the next generation of children to become productive members of society. Everyone is not a winner, sometimes people lose, and it's what you teach your kids to do after they lose that will make the most impact on them. Will they just quit, or give up? Or will they analyze what they did wrong, figure out how to improve and be better at it next time?
Suicide is always tough and my condolences go out to the family, but like others have said, these kids facing prison time didnt kill this girl. She killed herself. It wasnt just the bullying, it was whatever else that was going on in her world and the bullying just compounded that. Are the parents gonna face jail time because the girl thought that she was doing too many chores in the house, or she didnt like being grounded from talking on the phone? There are so many things that influence people's decisions in life that it's hard to single out a reason, but it's easy to point fingers so the family can feel justified even though they could have been just as big of a cause to how the girl was feeling as the bullys were. Now these kids lives will be ruined because they teased a girl that wasnt taught it was ok to fail, or there is a life after a boy that dumps you, or that its not the end of the world if you dont go to the mall today.
Kids dont have the perspective that adults do, their world tends to be a lot smaller so the importance of everything in it is compounded. I agree that kids need to start taking responsibility for their actions, but first they need to be taught the proper way to do that. The proper way is not a witch hunt to ease a family's sadness.
sorry for the rant
/rant
Actually a good rant...clearly the parents want to be granted absolution from whatever feelings of guilt they may harbor about their child's incapacity to continue in life
and they see the prosecution and conviction of others as a way to get themselves off the hook for their contributions to their child's failure....
the child had no core foundation of self-worth that would get her through adversity....can we blame the students for that too?
She was obviously a pretty girl. If she only got it in her head that they were picking on her because they were most likely jealous of her?! Unfortunately, for so many kids her age..the opinions of others is all that matters. [roll] Obviously, the girl had other underlying problems. The bullying was just the final straw.
I feel sad for her..only 15. :(
This is definitely a hard topic to cover.
Something to remember is that most of the responses here have been from males.
Life as a teenager is entirely different for males than it is for females, as we all know.
For us guys, dealing with a bully is simple, kick him in the nuts at the first opportunity, and stomp his brains out as he turtles on the ground.
Girls don't have it so easy.
Their self image is constantly changing as they go through their cycles, and is never cemented until well past high school.
Being a pretty girl even makes it harder for some, because then they have to not only deal with jealous vicious girls, but then deal with teenage boys who want what they want, and then boast about it to everyone, including their current girl friends, who then go about punishing a trifling slut, who in this case, was this girl who killed herself.
From what I took out of the story, it sounds like the girl screwed around with some older boys, who were already in relationships with older boys. The boys then boasted about it, and it got back to their girlfriends. The girlfriends then decided to make her life a living hell. All of that is normal teenager behavior, and actually carries over into adult life, as we all know.
All the 15 year old girl wanted, as far as I know, was a relationship with one of the boys, and it didn't seem like it mattered which one. Instead, she got used by the boys, boasted about as an easy lay all around school, then tormented by the girls for being a slut, 24 hours a day, in a small town community, where everyone knows everyone, and that you can't easily get away from.
Those of us who grew up in large cities (I grew up in NYC, in the Public Schools), know that life is entirely different than those who grow up in small back water communities. Its alot easier to learn how to deal with stuff like this when you are in a school that has 3k kids. You can make new friends alot easier, and get your friends to support you. When you are in a small town like she was, and your "friends" start turning on you, you then are isolated, and life becomes unbearable.
So you know what?
I think the kids are responsible for her death.
Teenagers are not mentally stable on a good day.
You throw in behavior like that, including forced isolation, and all these different kinds of abuse, and you are looking at a kid staring off a precipice, with a pride of hungry lions blocking the path to safety. What do you choose? Death by the lions, or death by the long fall and splat at the bottom? Its a no win situation, but in the mind of the girl, the quick death means that its OVER, plain and simple. Not just 3 more years of being treated like this in HS, and then an unknown amount of years after that either in college with the same people, or out in the real world trying to get a job.
Ultimately, I think that the only thing that would have saved this girl would have been if her family was involved (single mom? both parents? Divorced? I have no idea), and switched her schools, or just plain moved to a new community.
That, or if she got a job after school.
Its amazing the changes that kids go through once they start to experience the working world.
She would have developed skills that would have helped her deal with stress just from having to deal with stress at work.
Last time I checked, no one has ever offed themselves after having a bad day working the front counter at Burger King.
Its a no-win situation for everyone involved.
The boys used her as a sex toy, and boasted about it afterwards.
The girls tormented her for being a trifling whore with their boyfriends, and got all of their friends involved in making her life hell.
The school did nothing when informed of what was happening, but they didn't force her to have sex with the boys, nor did they tell the girls to deal with the slut.
The parent(s) of the girl ignored whatever signs that she put out that her life was falling apart.
Everyone is to blame, but yet no one is ultimately responsible.
Its not like the girl killed herself with a gun that she bought from a store, after telling the shop owner that she was going to use it to kill herself. Then you would actually have someone to blame directly for her death.
We don't have that here.
But I don't think she is to blame for her wanting to end her torment and humiliation in a small town.
BC.
Sad indeed. I however stand on the "thick skin" side and believe kids should learn how to deal with it. When did we start handing out trophies to all the kids in little league for losing as well? No one here was brought up that way and it taught us something. The bullies should be responsible for their part but this, IMO, could have also been a disturbed girl that needed help - this could have very well been the trigger.