OK, I've got a table full of raw aluminum parts that are just about ready to go in for powder treatment, but I've encountered a couple minor stumbles in my progress. Looking for a bit of help/advice...
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6323/swingarm.jpg)
First of all, how the hell do you guys remove #2 in the above diagram from the rearset? I've put considerable pressure on it from the back of the rearset by clamping it in a table vice with a 1" socket against the back side, but I'm worried I'm gonna destroy the rubber or the rearset itself if I apply much more force. any better ways of going about this?
Secondly, I've got my cam inspection covers off, and now I need to pull the bearings. I've removed the snaprings holding them in, but they still seem like they're press-fit really tight into the cover?? Anybody know a safe way of removing these? I'd appreciate any help or tips...
as soon as this project is over with and reassembled, I promise you guys pics [bacon]
after a bit of investigation I came across this thread: http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22514.msg398917#msg398917 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22514.msg398917#msg398917)
it sounds like, at least on the 696 rearsets, the part analogous to the #2 part in the above diagram is a high-temp rubber and can be left in for the powdercoat process. Anybody around here familiar enough to confirm that the same holds true for the S*R rearsets? that would be awesome; these things are pressed into the rearset really, really tight!
While I'm thinking of it, I have another question for you knowledgeables. I'm also having some brembo goldline 4-pot calipers coated. I've removed everything (pads + associated hardware, bleeder valve, brakeline, etc.) except for the pistons inside each caliper half. will this be suitable for undergoing the powdercoat process, or should I find a way to pull all the pistons out as well? I would imagine brake caliper internals could withstand temperatures greater than what a powdercoat oven would produce, but I'm checking against my personal logic...
Calipers:
ALL must be removed down to the two casting halves. Pistons, seals, bolts....everything. Then, be absolutely sure your coater KNOWS what to mask...
Rear-sets:
Try applying a bit of heat (heat gun, not torch) to the rearset around the bushing. There could be a chemical 'adhesive' (for lack of a better word) holding that into the rearset that would likely be broken down with the heat and allow it to be removed.
Cam-end caps:
The bearings are pressed in. Try going to a machine shop to see if they can help out. It's not an easy process for a DIY'er...
Thanks for the tips, I'll work on the rearsets more tonite with a heat gun, and hopefully the guys at the local community college machine shop can pull the bearings from my cam end covers.
Best way for extracting caliper pistons? they're pushed in all the way ATM. maybe some compressed air to the brake fluid inlet?
Put your rag between the pistons so that they don't nick each other and then use some compressed air. Try a light amount of pressure at first as that method (which I've done) does work very effectively. If you're not able to use a light pressure...then just be careful.
Ive Powder coated 2 rearsets with the rubber bushings in. They havent given me any problems at all.
I had it in the oven for about an hour at 375F.
Quote from: He Man on April 05, 2010, 10:13:06 AM
Ive Powder coated 2 rearsets with the rubber bushings in. They havent given me any problems at all.
I had it in the oven for about an hour at 375F.
thanks for the info, I will ask my powder guy today what temp he bakes at. Also gonna ask if he primarily uses thermoset or thermoplastic powders...
Quote from: gOoIe B on April 05, 2010, 10:19:24 AM
thanks for the info, I will ask my powder guy today what temp he bakes at. Also gonna ask if he primarily uses thermoset or thermoplastic powders...
it varies based on your choice of application, and color (mostly application, interior, exterior mainly)
It doenst matter waht temp he bakes at, but what temp the power requires to cure at. The power I was using just so happened to be 375 for 20 minutes once the part reaches that temp.
What you should tell him is, you want something that is good for exterior use, with the color you want, and make sure that you know that there may be imperfections. Simply because your part is cast, sometimes it doesnt outgas perfectly and you may get a speck or 2.
thanks for the info, I will discuss these matters with my powder guy tonite. hope to have all my parts ready by the end of tomorrow.
Quote from: He Man on April 05, 2010, 11:00:12 AM
it varies based on your choice of application, and color (mostly application, interior, exterior mainly)
It doenst matter waht temp he bakes at, but what temp the power requires to cure at. The power I was using just so happened to be 375 for 20 minutes once the part reaches that temp.
What you should tell him is, you want something that is good for exterior use, with the color you want, and make sure that you know that there may be imperfections. Simply because your part is cast, sometimes it doesnt outgas perfectly and you may get a speck or 2.
You realize that interior powder is epoxy and exterior is polyester...
right? ;)
I went back reread what i wrote in reponsoe. what was i thinking?
However on the topic, you can use epoxy on exterior, the gloss will fade quickly if left to the elements, especially UV. A lot of matte colors come in Epoxy and Polyester based. You can use a matte epoxy based powder outside without any ill effects. It will still hold up.
Theres also a ton of different Polyester coatings. Some of them are even epoxy blends, but still decent for exterior use. The best ones are TGICs and urethanes
Most powders are thermoset, and once they are fnished curing in the oven, you can pretty much leave them in the oven for hours on end at the temperature they are set to cure at without ill effect. (and to get to ducpainters point, Epoxy and Polyester blends are all thermosets which is why you can leave them in the oven at the curing temp past their cure time)
BTW: im reading this all off a manual i made from the past few months of powdercoating stuff. Theres more information than you should be concerned about. just tell him the color and you want it to stand up to the elemnts
Here are my covers done in epoxy powder coat for my S2R project build. I'll report on how they do in the FLorida sunshine [popcorn]
Also I couldn't get the rubber isolators off the footpeg brackets and left them on. Just mask the hole.
BTW, the frame and swingarm were done in polyester for UV durability.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2691/4494870083_4858b10822_b.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4494870385_eb105b136f_b.jpg)
silver, that looks really sharp! I was leaning toward a gloss black for the rearsets and whatnot, but you've got me considering the matte finish even more now. You should snap+post a pic of the whole bike.
since we all love pics, I will show you a glimpse of what I'm working with so far.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2agtdtg.jpg)
Quote from: gOoIe B on April 05, 2010, 04:18:25 PM
silver, that looks really sharp! I was leaning toward a gloss black for the rearsets and whatnot, but you've got me considering the matte finish even more now. You should snap+post a pic of the whole bike.
Ask and you shall receive...but it's a work in progress ;D
It's just a simple build to get it titled then all the serious mods start (dual headlights, radial masters, paint, etc). [moto]
I just cored the exhaust this weekend and everything is going back to the powder coaters for a black high temp ceramic coating.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/4355906589_d6d880bb8e_b.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2718/4495117131_0cf106d224_b.jpg)
Quote from: gOoIe B on April 05, 2010, 04:27:10 PM
since we all love pics, I will show you a glimpse of what I'm working with so far.
(http://i41.tinypic.com/2agtdtg.jpg)
jeez i wish people would give me stuff that clean to PC!!!!! good job.
the FLAT epoxy will do fine outdoors. its not the weatherbility problem as much as it is a UV problem.
i really like the look of matte black. heres a few things i did in matte black as well.
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=366&g2_serialNumber=2)
and my swingarm in gloss black (TGIC)
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=133&g2_serialNumber=2)
Quote from: He Man on April 05, 2010, 06:12:57 PM
jeez i wish people would give me stuff that clean to PC!!!!! good job.
the FLAT epoxy will do fine outdoors. its not the weatherbility problem as much as it is a UV problem.
i really like the look of matte black. heres a few things i did in matte black as well.
The camera makes the parts look cleaner than they are, but I did use lots of rags and wd-40 to get 'em looking even that clean.
Got my box o' parts crammed into the back of the car, awaiting their delivery this evening! :D
In case someone else in the future has to search for an answer to this problem, I will go ahead and post it up on here.
Straight from my duc tech - to remove the cam cover bearings, all that needs to be done is to remove the snap rings (of course), then heat up the cam cover, pick it up with an oven mitt or thick rag, and smack it bearing-side down onto a piece of wood or other flat surface - it should pop right out.
as a side note, I'll have my parts back in about a week. :D
Hey silver, I want to see the exhaust - did you fully core them or what?
And a question for all those who have PCed the alt-side engine cover - what did you do about the bearing in there, did you pull it beforehand or leave it in? If you pulled it, how?
I pulled that bearing too. I don't have the cover in front of me so I don't remember if there was a snap ring involved, but if there was, it was removed, then I put the back side of a socket through the hole in the alternator housing and tapped the bearing out.
I've got another brain buster for yous guys.
When I removed the wet clutch cover, I pulled out all the oil seals/sight glass/etc., then sat it on my table facing up and didn't give it a second thought. I forgot all about the black "clutch basket" thing bolted into the inside of the clutch cover. Well, my powder guy is getting ready to blast and notices this thing is still installed in the clutch cover, so he pulls all the bolts out and tries to remove it. No good. Sat the clutch cover gasket-side down on a wooden table and beat the outside of the cover with a rubber mallet, still with no results.
How the hell does one get this thing out? It looks like it should just come out after the bolts are removed... ???
Sorry for blowing up my own thread, but I'm beginning to despair, this inner clutch basket has got to be removed or else theres no way we'll be able to clear all the blasting media out of the clutch cover. My powder guy is ready to lay down some color, too.
I placed a call to my dealer/service shop again today to try to get a solution for this; was put on the phone with the head of the service department, he had no idea how to resolve my problem but he didn't want to let me talk to a tech. "I find it hard to believe you were put on the phone with one of our techs yesterday, considering the time of year and how busy we are..." well, I don't want to be a nuisance and I also don't want to argue, but come on. Talking to a tech seemed like no problem yesterday, and it only took them a matter of seconds to address my problem with the cam bearings. Kind of insulting that he wanted to doubt my claim too. Oh well. So here I am, while my clutch cover is with the powdercoater, meaning I can't even try to remove the basket myself. Surely someone roaming these forums has powdercoated their wet clutch cover, or had some other excuse to remove the inner basket? Anyone? Bueller?
edit: just checked in my digital workshop manual, and the only advice it gives is to remove the 6 bolts holding the inner clutch cover in, then remove the inner cover and sound deadener behind it. it even has a picture of a hand simply lifting the inner cover out. Frustration ensues...
Have been wanting to do this myself. How did you get the sight glass out?
pretty sure its just glued on.
Think about it.
You cant press plastic into metal. plastic will bend,deform, crack
You can only bolt it, or seal it with glue. Eitherway, this is another reason why i wont PC my case covers ( that and it wouldnt match my engine if i decided to paint it cause theres noway im going to PC my engine)
Quote from: orlandofast1 on April 09, 2010, 04:11:22 AM
Have been wanting to do this myself. How did you get the sight glass out?
all I had to do was tap it out from the inside of the cover using a socket that was the same diameter as the sight glass.
Quote from: He Man on April 09, 2010, 07:33:14 AM
pretty sure its just glued on.
Think about it.
You cant press plastic into metal. plastic will bend,deform, crack
You can only bolt it, or seal it with glue. Eitherway, this is another reason why i wont PC my case covers ( that and it wouldnt match my engine if i decided to paint it cause theres noway im going to PC my engine)
I see your point, but if I get the chance to paint the engine somewhere down the road, I will likely intentionally paint it a different shade from the case and belt covers - if done right, it will look good AND provide more contrast to give the observer "more to look at."
Quote from: bergdoerfer on April 07, 2010, 09:08:01 AM
Hey silver, I want to see the exhaust - did you fully core them or what?
And a question for all those who have PCed the alt-side engine cover - what did you do about the bearing in there, did you pull it beforehand or leave it in? If you pulled it, how?
Bergdoerfer,
Yes they are fully cored. Just ordered the perforated tubes and fiberglass batting tonight. Once the perf tube is fitted the whole exhaust goes for black ceramic coating. I'm on the verge of hijacking the OP's thread so I won't dump a bunch more picts ;)
My alternator cover was completely stripped for PC-ing. I used a bearing puller. As durable as bearing are, I hate whacking the crap out of them when I intend to re-use them.
Quote from: gOoIe B on April 08, 2010, 02:38:09 PM
Sorry for blowing up my own thread, but I'm beginning to despair, this inner clutch basket has got to be removed or else theres no way we'll be able to clear all the blasting media out of the clutch cover. My powder guy is ready to lay down some color, too.
edit: just checked in my digital workshop manual, and the only advice it gives is to remove the 6 bolts holding the inner clutch cover in, then remove the inner cover and sound deadener behind it. it even has a picture of a hand simply lifting the inner cover out. Frustration ensues...
gOoIe,
Do you have a picture of mentioned "inner cover"? What year and model is your bike?
My bike is a 2006 Monster s2r 800 dark, and this diagram will show you the clutch housing I'm working with.
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2wevvwh.png)
apparently its gonna take a lot more than a thumb and two fingers to pull this pregnant dog out...
in that case get a rubber mallet and start wacking away!
I'm wondering if this piece is tacked on with dabs of silicone or other "damping" compounds?
He Man may be onto something. You may have to get "medieval" on it.
If anyone is looking for a Powder and Ceramic coater I had good results with www.performancekote.com (//http://) . They are in Orlando and had a 3 year warranty. So far they did my frame, exhaust, and swingarm. I have been wanting to get my wheels and case covers done. However I tried pressing out my sightglass w/o luck. Now I am waiting to see how the clutch cover is removed. Keep us posted.
So I did end up going somewhat medieval on the sucker, and pried it out with 2 large screwdrivers wedged carefully between the sound deadener and outer clutch cover. I didn't notice any evidence of glue or other adhesives, but the surface of the sound deadener did feel tacky, and being pressed in with those 6 hex bolts and inner cover and heat cycled so many times must have been what created such a tight bond.
Progress is coming nicely [evil]