Ducati Monster Forum

Seems to be some potential in there:


(http://hejdarn.googlepages.com/696RS-3.jpg)

Engine mods: Ported, camtiming & mapped w RapidBike. Slipons & open airfilter.
65,83 Hp/62.88 Nm at start, 85.56/78.75 after, same bench.
http://www.mpgfi.se/hejdstrom_696_2.jpg (http://www.mpgfi.se/hejdstrom_696_2.jpg)

153.2 kg, all fluids except gas.
Edit: 166 kg at start.

Wow!  What was done to lighten the bike?  I'm sure those OZ wheels help.  Anything else?

How much does it cost to have that done?

Don´t think they OZ´s  [coffee]
I have Marchesini on my M696 pjfa Edition and look the same.
(http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1285/dsc03238i.jpg)

I see wheels, exhaust, rearsets, rear rotor for lightening (some CF of course)

The motor is what I'm interested in
Probably has the Ergal cams for allowing timing adjustment.
maybe lightweight flywheel as well.

but noticed it's stock suspension.

Ergal cams: will find out.
Lw fw, he says not.
Other wheels, fr rotors too, I think.

Off to bed now f 3 days of working early  [bang],
here Swedish thread , til later, w the lightening mods, at least pics & numbers:
http://www.ducatiklubben.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=146&Itemid=216 (http://www.ducatiklubben.se/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=146&Itemid=216)

requires membership, and payment it looks like?

I`m a paying member of th Swedish Ducati Club,
thought you could at least look, sorry!

If you have a chance, check out what was done to drop all that weight!

Tank plastic
front fender
ECU air filter
other flywheel
rear hugger
mirrors
heat shields
db killers
tail
wheels
foot controls
rear disc
battery

removed or replaced w lighter.

there are others on this board that have done more, so wonder where some of them sit ref: weight

So the big weight drops are the tail chop, flywheel, rotors and rearsets

I know the tail chop has huge potential savings...moto creations is working on a cf replacement under tail that speculates 5lb lighter than stock.

Most of his weight saving items are standard cf fare, so it's be interesting to see how much weight each item saved

20 HP, a 30% bump, with just porting, cam timing and a map? 

Since Thomas won´t be back from mountain climbing for another couple of weeks I give you some of the numbers.

Flywheel 0.68kg / 1.8kg oem. Custom made rear rotor 0.48kg / 0.86kg oem. Rearsets 1.62kg / 4.13kg oem. Speedcell battery 0.66 / 4.1kg oem. The list goes on and on ...
I won´t comment on the engine work but the dyno numbers are for real and the bike really delivers from 4k right up to the redline.

Nice. Would be a really fun track bike.
 [popcorn]

Something isn't adding up your not going to get that kind of gain with those mods. I clicked on the link but found know real info. on what was done to that motor. Is there any one here who's actually done some internal engine mods to the 696 ? If so pipe in cause if there's a way to get that gain with out more cc's, compression, bigger valves & throttle bodies. I'd like to hear about it.
 Thanks

Sounds like the way to do it to me.

compression is pretty high already.
valves.. can't go bigger and get more power (per a noted Ducati engine builder)
throttle bodies are the same as on the 1100 so doubt that is needed but can be opened a mm or 2

could be stroked to the 803.
the port polish, cams and tuning should help alot.

[clap] [thumbsup] Although I struggle to beleive you can get 20hp from the engine mods identified here.

+1?

All info is from the owners writeup, incl engine mods.

What can I say, noone over here hardly believes i either! :o ;D

The tuner has ported & modded Ducs f over 20 years, works w racing teams etc:
http://www.proservice.se/indexe.html (http://www.proservice.se/indexe.html)  --> Dyno, scroll down you see the 696 chart here also.

My first Q to owner was what the tuner thought about the ports, maybe the secret?
He`s apparently climbing K2 again or something, answers will take a week or two.

+1

rapid bike doesn't even admit a 696 fitment, so this is interesting in multiple levels.  If there's 20hp to find in the 696, i'ld be very impressed.  I can't imagine getting that much with so little though

http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/application-list-rapid-bike.pdf (http://www.rapidbikeusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/application-list-rapid-bike.pdf)

Yeah, I don't know the 696 well enough to know it's exact physical limits I'm just saying you cant get that much HP increase in a small motor with the mods listed if you could pump up a 696 to over 80 hp with a cam, port & polish you would be a rich man. Stroked to an 803 well that is no longer a 696 and with out bigger valves you still would prob. be shy of the claimed 85 hp. I'm not sure but I thought the 796 (a stroked 696) is only putting out about 5 more hp then the 696.

An interesting question for everyone regarding the dyno graph, why does the torque and HP curve not cross at 5250rpm? 

That should be a given unles the rpms are measured metrically. :D

From http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/Torquething.htm (http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/Torquething.htm) :


Proservice uses Nm. All his graphs cross at same RPM. And something w graph resolution maybe,
I`m not sure about this.


Mailed tuner and asked if there were only the 3 mods done and what contributed the most.
Bit short answer: The whole picture decides it, the porting did the most of it.

So maybe it`s the old "It`s all in the head" again.
And knowledgeble mapping do make a difference.

Nobody would deny that.  But 20hp?? 

Does it have a turbocharger?  [laugh]

Wow, I wondered why my tach was off! Of course Metric RPM! I'm going to recalibrate my tach for Standard RPM does anyone know how to do this on a 696?

Now for the real question, at what RPM does NM cross HP?  I see the point, and I can understand it crossing at a higher RPM than Ft.lb. but does anyone know the constant?

One lb/feet torque is 1.35 Nm.
1.35 x 5250 = 7087.5
Seems pretty close to cross in the graph I posted, maybe it is that simple?

That's about 122 hp/liter.  Same neighborhood as the Honda S2000.  Color me pretty impressed. 

Taking one of Ducati's highest Hp/disp bike and bumping it 20hp is a big deal.  Especially claiming no internal mods.

I do not believe the cooling system would cope well with rejecting the extra heat.  Let us know how long the engine lasts.   

 

I'm looking at OZ Rapid magazine. 1100 Hypermotard gives a claimed 106 rwhp with 13:1 high comp pistons, DP race cams, porting, Termi 2 into 1 full exhaust system, triple cut valve job, K&N air filter (guessing the kit), Tuneboy reflash.

That's about 20 hp more than stock, but with the pistons and much bigger standard capacity.
My guess is the 696 with the mods stated would be 10 more hp, maybe 15.
Maybe that motor is particularly efficient for it's capacity.
The 696 revs well and has good valve area for it's capacity?

What do the our board pros in the industry think?

From a ducati expert I have spoken to, the valves are very large for the capacity and are at the limit of size for the bore. any bigger and you reduce effeciency.

Regarding the engine mods its a lot more put into it than just grinding a bit.
I know the tuner well and what he does, hes been going his own way all the time and wont listen much to the traditional way to tune, so it will be a unique tuning job for sure.

I dont know about this particular engine but to mention something, very often he makes ports smaller and a different shape to stock although flowing a lot more and so it goes on with just about every aspect and it all adds up.

Understand, but say the engine is 25% efficient, those extra 20HP means the lump has to produce 80HP more and dump 60HP into heat and friction.  The internal parts (bearings) may take the friction and heat, but he should have resized the oil cooler if he wants to ride with that amount of wasted energy. 

well for starters, the 696 doesn't have a stock oilcooler, so safe to say stock isn't pushing the limits of the motor.

I see the point, agree, but mostly in nordic climate it seldom gets too hot, we did an 1123 sport classic that does really well and that one could get a bit hot at summerdays reaching 30 cescius, but it will have an 848 oilcooler along with a ncr one, so its pretty easy to solve. A gauge with oil temp is good anyways  yes.
So of course if you start fiddling you need to know what to change, thats what differ a working concept from the rest.

TomTom`s shop:  http://www.hypertrick.net/ (http://www.hypertrick.net/)

Nice to see ya here, välkommen!  :)