I need some honest feedback here, and I need it from people I trust and people who ride especially. I'm sure I can count on you all to tell it like it is.
So here's the deal: last week a local bartender who is tight with our local food community (hangs out with the bloggers, screws a lot of chefs, etc) was found unconscious about 50 ft from her scooter on what is possibly the safest road in the entire world (I know this because I live off of it). When I say safe, I mean *seriously* safe as in no turns, incredibly polite drivers, pedestrian conscious (there is a jogging path down the middle and bike trail on the side of it) as well as being a posted 30 mph that everyone abides by because cops are everywhere as it is a really affluent old neighborhood. No helmet, of course. Apparently she's never worn a helmet.
No one knows the details yet but the cops didn't think she had been hit, so would anyone else naturally assume that she must have been drinking to have such a nasty spill in these conditions?...? anyone else?
Okay, so here is where I come in:
The local food community, rallied by this girls BFF who is a food blogger known for dating chefs, has come together to fundraise for this girl with an insane amount of vigor. Now, I know the crowd loves to jump on any bandwagon - the same collective mindset that was burning witches a century ago is the same one thats raising disaster relief funds for Japan (sure, hate me for saying that but you know its true). I'm talking a festival, fundraising dinners everywhere, make the beast with two backsing t-shirts for crying out loud. So naturally, as part of the local food community, I'm being asked to donate and chip in. And what they are asking is pretty considerable.
So here's what I want to say:
"make the beast with two backs you. I'm still paying off my medical bills from last year at this time when I was effected by something that was *not* a direct product of my own stupidity and none of you assholes were anywhere to be seen despite the fact that I've done a hell of a lot more for the local food community than bartending. I'll donate a used helmet to the cause, how about that?"
Am I a horrible person for thinking all of this? At this point - I have to donate at least some of what's been asked because naturally, they asked in a public forum and what has been tweeted cannot be undone. But I do it with an amazing amount of bitterness.
Thoughts?
I'm not looking to have my opinions reaffirmed here. In fact, I'm looking for people to say "suck it up and be a better person" so that I can stop being so pissed off about this. Now shoot!
Nope, no assholery here by my book.
Nobody did anything for me when the deer tried to kill me and my bike back in '09 and the bills kept rolling in.
I think you're entitled to feel bitter about their inaction and her stupidity for not wearing a helmet. You could (possibly) volunteer to donate some time (rather than $$) to organizing the information campaign and hijack the movement (in part) to push for helmets and safety. I'd try not to let the injured person bear the brunt of your anger at the rest of the community's inaction on your behalf.
Being pissed off is a choice. ;D
Just to play devil's advocate I would say first on the scooter rider's behalf, without really knowing what happened, its hard to blame her. Who knows, maybe a cat ran out in front of her causing the crash. (helmet issue aside)
Now I will say that I agree it sucks that you are being pressured from the community at large to help out. I think it's great when people organize to help others but, that shouldn't come at the cost of socially stigmatizing others.
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
I need some honest feedback here, and I need it from people I trust and people who ride especially. I'm sure I can count on you all to tell it like it is....
So here's what I want to say:
"make the beast with two backs you. I'm still paying off my medical bills from last year at this time when I was effected by something that was *not* a direct product of my own stupidity and none of you assholes were anywhere to be seen despite the fact that I've done a hell of a lot more for the local food community than bartending. I'll donate a used helmet to the cause, how about that?"
The way I see it it sounds like you're being selfish.
You're upset because you didn't get something that someone else is. Whether or not that person deserves it is totally totally irrelevant for your argument.
You don't see me all pissed off because I didn't win the lottery and some hobo alcoholic who lives in a trailer down by the river did. That's just he way it is - and it's not right or fair to judge that.
Also, you're further basing your feelings on your own personal judgments of her character and that of her BFF who's leading the support. Which again, has nothing to do with the fact that people in the community are trying to help this injured girl. You even said that it's not clear what happend, but you've clearly unjustly judged what happened to her by assuming that she did something stupid.
Envy is one thing, but in this case, I don't think you have a leg to stand on because this is a clear case of jealousy.
Be a bigger person than this. Send her a get well card and wish her the best in recovery. Be grateful that you survived your own issue and don't let jealousy blind you from seeing that you have friends who care about you regardless of how they may show their support.
Why cant you tell them the truth?
"dude, im paying off my own medical bills, i really cant help to pay yours, but heres a small donation"
HYUUUUUGE ahole!!
[cheeky]
You're not a bad person for feeling that - what you do with those feelings is what matters.
You're trying to run a business in the middle of a small, tightly knit community and, chances are, your response will have an impact on your relationships in that community. If you're willing to accept the consequences of saying what you feel right now - including ones that you might not foresee at the moment - then that's a choice and more power to you for making it.
I wouldn't tell you to suck it up and be a better person; what I would tell you is to suck it up and do what's right for you and for your business. You might be surprised to find they wind up being the same thing.
Quote from: He Man on April 07, 2011, 10:09:13 AM
Why cant you tell them the truth?
"dude, im paying off my own medical bills, i really cant help to pay yours, but heres a small donation"
+1 Nothing arsehole about your own situation and if that's what's interpreted by someone else, then that's their problem.
And if you can, offer to donate a few hours or a day or two of time in whatever way you can. That can be just as valuable as the money.
Quote from: Stella on April 07, 2011, 10:14:01 AM
And if you can, offer to donate a few hours or a day or two of time in whatever way you can. That can be just as valuable as the money.
I totally agree. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Stella on April 07, 2011, 10:14:01 AM
And if you can, offer to donate a few hours or a day or two of time in whatever way you can. That can be just as valuable as the money.
agreed
Quote from: Monster Dave on April 07, 2011, 10:07:03 AM
The way I see it it sounds like you're being selfish. You're upset because you didn't get something that someone else is. Whether or not that person deserves it is totally totally irrelevant for your argument.
You don't see me all pissed off because I didn't win the lottery and some hobo alcoholic who lives in a trailer down by the river did. That's just he way it is - and it's not right or fair to judge that.
Also, you're further basing your feelings on your own personal judgments of her character and that of her BFF who's leading the support. Which again, has nothing to do with the fact that people in the community are trying to help this injured girl. You even said that it's not clear what happend, but you've clearly unjustly judged what happened to her by assuming that she did something stupid.
Envy is one thing, but in this case, I don't think you have a leg to stand on because this is a clear case of jealousy.
Be a bigger person than this. Send her a get well card and wish her the best in recovery. Be grateful that you survived your own issue and don't let jealousy blind you from seeing that you have friends who care about you regardless of how they may show their support.
Dude Dave, I usually agree with you, but you're so way of the mark on this thing that it's almost funny. If I weren't about to defend my Senior Design I would make some long post on how it's exactly the opposite of what you said, but I just don't have the time. You'll have to take my word on this. An apology would be nice too.
I don't think you're being an a-hole.
However, you gotta pick your battles and think long term (being good with this community I'm assuming can help your business, and may be vital??). Just do what you can afford to do, and explain why you financially can't do more. Keep your "no helmet opinions" to yourself, as there really isn't any benefit to speaking up about it. What's done is done, and lecturing on safety will only piss people off.
You could still donate an olld helmet at the end to make the back-handed point though. ;)
...and apparently I should have been a chef. There aren't any bartenders/bloggers known for screwing engineers! [cheeky]
Quote from: Triple J on April 07, 2011, 10:25:27 AM
"dude, im paying off my own medical bills, i really cant help to pay yours, but heres a small donation"
"...donate an old helmet..."
you can't fix stoopid, you are not an a-hole, sometimes people need a little slap in the face/dose of reality to wake the make the beast with two backs up.
<< and by "slap in the face/dose of reality wake up call" I am talking about hitting your melon on the pavement while not wearing a helmet >>
People jumped on the bandwagon of "get well soons" when you got hurt. I did not, because I thought it was your stupidity that resulted in your injury.
Conclusion: there is no need to jump on the bandwagon.
[thumbsup] [from one asshole to another]
Quote from: El Matador on April 07, 2011, 10:22:46 AM
Dude Dave, I usually agree with you, but you're so way of the mark on this thing that it's almost funny. If I weren't about to defend my Senior Design I would make some long post on how it's exactly the opposite of what you said, but I just don't have the time. You'll have to take my word on this. An apology would be nice too.
I know that what I said was clearly calling out the root of the issue, but I didn't mean any offense. I just cut to the point - perhaps a bit too curt. If so then, then I apologize.
Thanks for the honest feedback. It's good to hear that many of you see my point.
I think @monsterdave's post is exactly what I was looking for though. I am bitter, and I know I shouldn't let that blind the fact that there are a lot of good people out there just trying to be helpful. I know I'm being judgmental. I AM judgmental. And I also have a hell of a time keeping my opinions to myself, so thats why I'm doing my best PR by just staying away from the whole issue and surrounding events.
If someone tries to get me to wear a make the beast with two backsing t-shirt though, I might blow up ;D
I'm not jealous here, but more in the sense, deeply offended. I've done a lot for the food community here - A LOT - and seeing something like this is a pretty make the beast with two backsing big stab in the back. Then again, if someone did try to host a fundraiser for me while I was in the hospital, I'd punch them in the face because I'd be so deeply offended by asking for handouts (cultural thing)...
whatever. Can I donate the helmet, though? Really? Without pissing too many people off? I won't say anything about it. I just want to post it up on the donations page. People can make if it what they will?
Being an asshole is in the doing, not the thinking. I don't see that there is really any harm in ignoring requests for help, for reasons ideological or financial.
I don't get a clear read on what is expected of you, though. The twitter thing - did you commit to help, or were you volunteered to help, or...?
Quote from: triangleforge on April 07, 2011, 10:13:22 AM
I wouldn't tell you to suck it up and be a better person; what I would tell you is to suck it up and do what's right for you and for your business. You might be surprised to find they wind up being the same thing.
Sad but true. Principles & PR don't mix. Looks like I'm donating the use of my kitchens to their bake sale. Not too shabby I suppose.
I'm an asshole and this is exactly how I would react, so logically that means that you are also an asshole.
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 10:39:43 AM
I think @monsterdave's post is exactly what I was looking for though.
Thanks Lu. After what El Matador said, I was hopeful that I hadn't taken offense from my response.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
Am I a horrible person for thinking all of this?
Absolutely not. I cannot comment beyond this particular circumstance though. ;D
Cheers,
Adam
I don't think you're an asshole in the least and it has nothing to do with the fact that we are from the same place. ;)
Frankly to each their own and I don't believe this is about jealousy but I don't begrudge people for raising money for friends either. Now if she was drunk - yet to be known - then I'd be pissed alongside you. Furthermore, donating a helmet would be PERFECT!
Do what you think you'll be proud of when you're old.
I know what that should be, but I'm not going to tell you.
Quote from: Monster Dave on April 07, 2011, 10:54:59 AM
Thanks Lu. After what El Matador said, I was hopeful that I hadn't taken offense from my response.
El Matador thinks much more highly of me than logic would allow. It's probably because he's seen my boobies. That changes things.
Quote from: DrDesmosedici on April 07, 2011, 10:55:44 AM
Absolutely not. I cannot comment beyond this particular circumstance though. ;D
Cheers,
Adam
...and speaking of assholes... ;) looks like there will be a convention for them in town next week?
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 11:23:46 AM
El Matador thinks much more highly of me than logic would allow. It's probably because he's seen my boobies. That changes things.
...and speaking of assholes... ;) looks like there will be a convention for them in town next week?
[laugh] to all of the above.
Quote from: El Matador on April 07, 2011, 10:22:46 AM
Dude Dave, I usually agree with you, but you're so way of the mark on this thing that it's almost funny. If I weren't about to defend my Senior Design I would make some long post on how it's exactly the opposite of what you said, but I just don't have the time. You'll have to take my word on this. An apology would be nice too.
Are you serious? She asked for everyone's opinion. Just because his doesn't match yours, doesn't mean his is wrong. Dave was concise and polite. No apology needed. In fact, I agree with him 100%.
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 09:43:37 AM
I'll donate a used helmet to the cause, how about that?"
A: You have no idea if the person was DUI, could have been a squirrel. Why get all worked up over what you assume?
B: Ixnay on the helmet idea. They'll just sue you later when the
used helmet fails to work properly. Helmets expire. Helmets get damaged with use.
C: If you are doing stuff for the food community selflessly...quit bringing it up. If you are doing it for other reasons...start charging or stop doing it or ...stop bringing it up. :)
Quote from: hbliam on April 07, 2011, 11:32:54 AM
C: If you are doing stuff for the food community selflessly...quit bringing it up. If you are doing it for other reasons...start charging or stop doing it or ...stop bringing it up. :)
I do stuff for the food community
shellfishly. ;D
Lu:
I'm with you. Tell them to make the beast with two backs off. Adults are responsible for keeping themselves alive... part of being an adult. If the bartender decided it wasn't worth his while to wear a helmet... he should have been prepared to cover his bills.
I'd feel 100% different and be all for charity if he had worn a helmet and still needed the help, unless of course he was drunk... but no one knows that for sure.
ducpainter is right, being pissed is a choice. There is an emotional option that people seem to forget a lot. I mean, this is a bad situation and you should be feeling something, right? Maybe anger that no one helped you when you needed it. Maybe guilt, for not wanting to help others. Maybe some empathy mixed in there just to confuse things. Maybe a genuine desire to help out dulled by perceived obligation.
But the other option is . . . drum roll . . . to feel nothing at all. To simply not give a shit. At all. Don't care. If you are a bit envious that people are helping her in a way that they didn't help you, well, get over it. Those people weren't obligated to you any more than you are to her. Then again, maybe you should have been make the beast with two backsing more chefs. ;D And try to get over your desire to help too. And your empathy. And your anger at the people trying to guilt you into helping. And what ever else you might be feeling.
A while back a guy I didn't know very well got into a bad moto wreck. The local monster community, including some of his closer friends talked a lot about "we should do something to help him." But few people were actually doing anything (though the ones that did were just awesome!) Of course once my wife and got one of the balls rolling, the outpouring as amazing. And I certainly can't take any credit for that, other than making it a bit easier for generous people to do what they wanted to do anyway. The point is, we considered doing nothing and just couldn't do it. Had the guy been a jackass instead of who he is, I could very likely have sat on my hands.
In short, my advice is to let it all go. Don't think about it. Don't participate. Do nothing. Go about your life. If you can't do that, if it is distasteful for you, be honest with yourself when you ask yourself, "why not?" Then act according to your conscience. You shouldn't feel guilty or angry or negative in any way with your choice. Let that be your guide. If you are upset at how you are acting do something else. If you are simply feeling guilty for not feeling anything, not doing anything, STOP IT! You are under no obligation regardless of how inspiring the logo on the make the beast with two backsing T-shirt is.
Cheers.
sac
I would turn that used helmet into a trophy of sorts. Paint it gold and put a pair of butt cheeks on it and call it the Golden Asshat award, or something. And then donate it.
Quote from: DesmoLu on April 07, 2011, 11:23:46 AM
El Matador thinks much more highly of me than logic would allow. It's probably because he's seen my boobies. That changes things.
...and speaking of assholes... ;) looks like there will be a convention for them in town next week?
Yes! As a lifetime member of the
AAA did you receive your invitation?
In true A-Hole tradition they likely didn't send you one. Pity ;D
Cheers,
Adam
Like food it is all in the "presentation"
if you are being button-holed, shanghai'd and press-ganged,,,
I for one can see why you would react the way you do
When charity is in the form of a thinly masked demand imposed with obligatory expectations my visceral reaction is "make the beast with two backs you"
hell I would and do cop a whole shit pile of resentment when folks approach me with their hand out saying "of course you'll help"
I am much better with things like that guy that got bent-up a few months ago and had a whopper of an air ambulance bill
and someone here posted a website to raise funds for him and offered a really good testimonial about his character as a human
I reached into my pocket...why? because it FELT like the right thing to do
I will still buy a mountain of Girl Scout cookies for the service men overseas (I still think the boxes of cookies should have pictures of the early bloomer scouts in uniform on them ) ;D
The point is...charity works best when a person is allowed to evolve their own rationale for giving, and where, how much and how they will contribute
but this is life and all the fastest roads to hell are paved with the best of intentions.
^ Indeed.
Since you are already bent out of shape about the situation and there are some potentially negative business connotations for not donating - is there a way to use your "charity" to benefit your business via advertising or other creative ways to make your involvement increase the visibility of your business? If you are being used against your will, you might as well maximize your advantage from it. Give "The Prince" by Niccolo Machiavelli a read...
what is a "food community"?
i'm of the school of thought that you say what you mean and do as you say.
if you don't want to, don't
well if its a small community you have to live in/ operate in, you have to play nice the game and be political about it.
Donate some food, not much, but actual cost to you is minimal. you can promise more 12 dozen, and give less 3doz when the time comes. Big order, lots of money excuse.... Or use it as a marketing opportunity for yourself.
But letting them use your kitchen i think is a bad idea. If their baking turns out to be shit, it may get back that it was made at your place, of course the details of who baked would be left out.
I think your best option would be to donate a few small gift certificates to raffle off. Actual cost to you is minimal, impact is good, and there is a chance they wont every be redeemed (30 day expiration date) win, win.
DesmoLu,
I hardly ever come here to NMC and this thread is a perfect example of why! (just kidding). Seriously, it seems like you are totally immersed in an uncomfortable situation. My only suggestion is to get away for just a couple of days. I don't know if you have a bike or a car, but any sort of road trip somehow works wonders.
Quote from: He Man on April 07, 2011, 10:09:13 AM
Why cant you tell them the truth?
"dude, im paying off my own medical bills, i really cant help to pay yours, but heres a small donation"
+1 on this.
If you don't mind my asking, how much were they asking for?
I like the more Machiavellian ideas posted. Create something yourself in your kitchen as a subtle way to market you wares, product, talent. Keep the receipts, write it off for your taxes. Being a business owner in a community, I don't think you have the luxury of telling someone to make the beast with two backs off, unfortunately.
I also hate the obligated forms of charity and what not. Part of what I hate about Christmas, bah humbug.
Another thought... you stated that if anyone tried to raise money for you when you were hurt, you would have been pissed. Maybe everyone kind of knew that already, and that's why there wasn't the same outpouring of graciousness for you as for this other person.
Or maybe you need a new BFF. :P
Im a "hands on" kind of guy. (Especially with da boobies)
When the dust settles ....... teach her how to ride.