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Title: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on April 11, 2012, 05:33:00 PM ok, now it deserves it's own thread:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98702 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98702) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 11, 2012, 05:34:36 PM and the earlier stuff:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120409nottriedthis.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120409nottriedthis.htm) http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98678 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/98678) http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/178407/1/valentino_rossi_lashes_out_after_qatar_nightmare.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/178407/1/valentino_rossi_lashes_out_after_qatar_nightmare.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 12, 2012, 03:34:08 AM http://english.gazzetta.it/Motor_sports/10-04-2012/vale-ducati-face-to-face-needed-the-image-of-both-is-at-stake-91889629105.shtml (http://english.gazzetta.it/Motor_sports/10-04-2012/vale-ducati-face-to-face-needed-the-image-of-both-is-at-stake-91889629105.shtml)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: El-Twin on April 12, 2012, 06:57:18 AM Rossi's quote reads:
"Unfortunately, I lost a lot of time in the beginning because when I had new tyres with good grip, the rear pushed a lot, making it very difficult under braking." Can someone explain this to me? I don't understand how the rear end can push. Loose? Yes. But push from the rear, I don't get. I thought the problem with all of the Ducati GP machines is that the L-twin motor doesn't allow enough weight on the front end to load the tire enough to give feedback. Then, when they rotated the motor backwards to compensate, it also raises the center of gravity. Make sense? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zarn02 on April 12, 2012, 07:24:15 AM If the GP12 understeers, then perhaps the riders compensate by sliding the rear out and flat-tracking it around the corner. A fresh, super-grippy rear tire might not allow for that, meaning lost time.
Or at least that's how I worked it out in my head that it could make sense. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: El-Twin on April 12, 2012, 07:50:25 AM ^^^ That makes sense to me, thanks.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: MadDuck on April 12, 2012, 08:39:37 AM However you slice it Rossi is giving them a huge list.
1. From all riders --- the lack of front end feel. Too stiff?? Not enough front weight bias?? 2. It understeers. Won't tighten up in a corner once you got it turned. (Gee, where have we heard that before, and not just in MotoGP land? [laugh] ) 3. The rear tire pushes. 4. The engine needs a softer power delivery. Rossi had that problem with some of his earlier Yamahas too. So what then? Other manufacturers have used and currently use a V configuration engine. So is that it? They've tried different frames and still have the same problem? How can that be? Is it a rear suspension geometry problem coupled with the engine? Somewhere in all of that there must be some sort of constant that someone either doesn't want to change or that in all the variations somehow keeps coming back. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: thought on April 12, 2012, 09:00:16 AM The only thing they havent played with is the 90 degree angle of the v4 right? Could it possibly something weird coming off the rotational forces in that engine config? Seems like a long shot though...
And i'm wondering, if ducati went back to the trellis frame, something they have a lot of xp with, would that help to solve the front end issues? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zarn02 on April 12, 2012, 09:20:38 AM The only thing they havent played with is the 90 degree angle of the v4 right? Could it possibly something weird coming off the rotational forces in that engine config? Seems like a long shot though... I don't remember hearing all these complaints when they had it sat in the trellis frame, so I wouldn't think the cylinder angle itself is the issue. Maybe weight distribution, which would be a side-effect. And i'm wondering, if ducati went back to the trellis frame, something they have a lot of xp with, would that help to solve the front end issues? Maybe, maybe not? The trellis-framed GP bikes also existed in the 990 era, with tire choice, etc. As I recall, they abandoned the trellis because they couldn't get the airbox volume they wanted while using it. How big a problem this actually would be, I don't know. You don't hear anybody saying the Ducati is underpowered. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: JoeP on April 12, 2012, 09:22:37 AM They've tried everything with the bike. They need to start modifying Rossi. Reflash his PR unit and back out his b!tch screw a half turn or so.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: BMiller on April 12, 2012, 09:53:29 AM They've tried everything with the bike. They need to start modifying Rossi. Reflash his PR unit and back out his b!tch screw a half turn or so. [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 12, 2012, 10:02:55 AM [laugh] +1 [laugh] and yeah, the only thing they haven't done is mess with the actual shape of the engine. when they went to work over the winter there was zero latitude on sticking with the 90°. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 12, 2012, 10:22:48 AM Personnally would love for them to bring back the trellis
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 12, 2012, 10:47:12 AM Noyes weighs in:
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Triple J on April 12, 2012, 11:00:44 AM The 90* configuration causes problems because it makes the motor longer, which limits how things can be oriented in the frame to affect weight distribution (i.e. put it as far forward as a 60* V motor and the front wheel hits the cylinder head). A smaller angle between the cylinders leads to a more compact engine and more options.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 12, 2012, 11:07:27 AM Noyes weighs in: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1) really want to drive out to the desert and buy that guy a beer. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zarn02 on April 12, 2012, 11:31:59 AM http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1 (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/P1) Good article.So, what's the score so far? Rossi may or may not bail during this season, but will almost assuredly not stay on with Ducati for another year, barring a miracle. Ducati may drop out next year anyway, if they refuse to sign on concerning upcoming rules changes. And Suzuki might return to GP in 2014 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/suzuki-motogp-2014/), though by that time who knows what the status will even be concerning prototypes. This leaves us with a 2013 season which could consist of Honda, Yamaha, their satellites, and the CRTs. Does that about cover it? :P Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 12, 2012, 12:42:04 PM I think points out one thing. The press is finally ready to blame the cause of the disaster that is the Ducati MotoGP Team... Preziosi.
Ducati will have to fire him, pull out, develop a new bike and then reenter after a year or two. They'll have to lay blame on him and not the factory to recover their reputation. They can no longer blame the riders, it's too obvious now. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zarn02 on April 12, 2012, 12:53:27 PM develop a new bike Shoehorn the GP engine into a modified 1198 chassis and call it a day. ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on April 12, 2012, 01:03:00 PM Just take the 1199 and start a CRT team.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 12, 2012, 01:09:20 PM Just take the 1199 and start a CRT team. you'd have to redo the frame... wait, that might work ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 12, 2012, 01:42:42 PM I've got a solution..
rehire Stoner.. ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 12, 2012, 01:48:40 PM I've got a solution.. rehire Stoner.. ;) at Rossi's salary ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 12, 2012, 02:16:01 PM Must point out......
Ducati builds XX new frames and YY new bikes for Rossi. Rossi cannot get results. What is he going to say? "I'ma sorry, I'ma a wanker and can't ridea fast." Of course not, he's going to blame the bike. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 12, 2012, 02:22:18 PM Must point out...... Ducati builds XX new frames and YY new bikes for Rossi. Rossi cannot get results. What is he going to say? "I'ma sorry, I'ma a wanker and can't ridea fast." Of course not, he's going to blame the bike. there is some credence to that line of thinking... however he's won 9 world championships on 3 different brands in 5 different formats. if he says the bike is unrideable, it probably is. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 12, 2012, 02:30:30 PM there is some credence to that line of thinking... however he's won 9 world championships on 3 different brands in 5 different formats. if he says the bike is unrideable, it probably is. well that and NOBODY but Stoner can either. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 12, 2012, 02:40:04 PM Stoner did better on the difficult bike. He has a dirt track backround, as does Hayden. It will be interesting to see if Hayden outpoints Rossi this year. Rossi has finally ridden a bike he couldn't adapt to.
I wonder if Ducati approach Stoner in the silly season. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 12, 2012, 02:56:51 PM The Euro GP style riders coming up from 125s all struggled with it.
Maybe Ducati should be targeting American and Australian guys with the dirt track backround. Did Spies start in flat track? Rossi would do well to get his own Yamaha team for next year and Ducati would do well to admit that the fundamental character of it's bikes suit a certain riding style and hire accordingly. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 12, 2012, 03:01:47 PM Did Spies start in flat track? nope. road racing. Rossi would do well to get his own Yamaha team for next year and Ducati would do well to admit that the fundamental character of it's bikes suit a certain riding style and hire accordingly. i see him on his own yamaha team next year. i also see Ducati relenting and changing the angle of the engine. or leaving GP. the latter is less likely IMO due to the italian view of racing. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 12, 2012, 03:16:30 PM Rossi going up against Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo with a satellite Yamaha?
'Cause I can't see Yamaha giving him a full-factory bike to compete with their own factory riders. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: kopfjäger on April 12, 2012, 03:18:07 PM I've got a solution.. rehire Stoner.. ;) [clap] [clap] [clap] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 12, 2012, 03:23:36 PM Rossi going up against Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo with a satellite Yamaha? 'Cause I can't see Yamaha giving him a full-factory bike to compete with their own factory riders. Maybe they might still give him what he wants, they still have a high regard for him. Psuedo factory team? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 12, 2012, 03:45:53 PM 'Cause I can't see Yamaha giving him a full-factory bike to compete with their own factory riders. i can, definitely. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Mugen939 on April 12, 2012, 06:49:34 PM Rossi going up against Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo with a satellite Yamaha? 'Cause I can't see Yamaha giving him a full-factory bike to compete with their own factory riders. Just means more podiums for a yamaha bike. They'll definitely do it. Manufacturers don't care about taking care of their star riders, they care about advertising the brand. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on April 12, 2012, 08:07:27 PM 'Cause I can't see Yamaha giving him a full-factory bike to compete with their own factory riders. Factory Yamaha will rehire Rossi and send The Ben packing.....bet the ranch on it [thumbsup] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 13, 2012, 03:02:57 AM Factory Yamaha will rehire Rossi and send The Ben packing.....bet the ranch on it [thumbsup] now that is far fetched and crazy...but not impossible... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on April 13, 2012, 03:13:31 AM now that is far fetched and crazy...but not impossible... Why...because a large Japanese corporation would show loyalty to an American employee that hasn't produced at a winning level?Rossi in tenth is a bigger draw than Ben in ninth... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 13, 2012, 03:23:25 AM WELL...here is my reasoning....Rossi had a small tantrum with Yammie when he left, but it was nowhere near as spiteful as when he left Honda, it was a salvagable type of break-up of sorts...it would take a bit of pride swallowing...but doable...
that is on the Rossi side of things.... on The Ben side of things....IF he gets results and it is a measurable seat of the points and starts generating the expected performance they had hoped for, he stands a much better bargaining chip in the whole deal and pushes some of the other early silly season strings around to his favor... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on April 13, 2012, 03:30:33 AM <snip> [popcorn]on The Ben side of things....IF he gets results <snip> Still waiting... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: BMiller on April 13, 2012, 05:33:47 AM Glad to see I'm not the only one who hasn't drank from the Rossi Koolaid. I'll admit he is/was an amazing rider, but I don't really care for him and I never have...plus I don't think enough credit was given to the Yamaha he was riding. Putting him on a Ducati doesn't make me like him any better. I bet if Nicky had shifted to Honda again....he may have already achieved another GP overall win just like Stoner. Ducati has some work ahead of them and I hope for their sake Rossi can get it together and finish right behind Nicky [laugh]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ZLTFUL on April 13, 2012, 06:28:40 AM Glad to see I'm not the only one who hasn't drank from the Rossi Koolaid. I'll admit he is/was an amazing rider, but I don't really care for him and I never have...plus I don't think enough credit was given to the Yamaha he was riding. Putting him on a Ducati doesn't make me like him any better. I bet if Nicky had shifted to Honda again....he may have already achieved another GP overall win just like Stoner. Ducati has some work ahead of them and I hope for their sake Rossi can get it together and finish right behind Nicky [laugh] Ok...just want to get this straight...So it's not the rider, it's the bike...except when it's the rider and not the bike. But if it's the right rider and the right bike, then it's the rider AND the bike? Gotcha. Oh and you don't like Rossi. Glad we had a chance to clear that up. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: BMiller on April 13, 2012, 06:43:57 AM Ok...just want to get this straight...So it's not the rider, it's the bike...except when it's the rider and not the bike. But if it's the right rider and the right bike, then it's the rider AND the bike? Gotcha. Oh and you don't like Rossi. Glad we had a chance to clear that up. It's a combination of both. No I don't like Rossi [laugh] [beer] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 13, 2012, 08:16:37 AM That thing about nicky would already have another championship is a good one =)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: MadDuck on April 13, 2012, 08:44:28 AM OK, there is definitely a bike problem. How truly bad we don't know for sure but it's a hand full and if there is only one rider that has been able to win with it in the past that also speaks volumes about how good/bad it is. If Rossi doesn't like it enough to try harder, i.e. he doesn't think it's close enough for him to try so hard that it increases his chances of crashing over an otherwise better set up bike, then that is a rider problem to some degree also. The other Ducati riders are trying harder and maybe they have more to prove than he does. Then again, Rossi is making loud statements about the bike in any way and any where he can. Do you think he might sit out the next race in two weeks?
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 13, 2012, 09:04:08 AM Do you think he might sit out the next race in two weeks? nope... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 13, 2012, 09:19:06 AM Rossi needs to sack up and ride the bike.
For inspiration, perhaps he should look across the garage at his teammate. But maybe that's too difficult, as he got out-qualified and beaten in the race by that teammate. And got pretty well matched on pace in pre-season testing as well. He's becoming the whiny pussy MotoGP rider that he accused most of the paddock of being last year. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ZLTFUL on April 13, 2012, 09:58:55 AM My post from ADVRider on the same subject:
Quote Rossi pushed on the Yamaha because he had a competitive package underneath him. He broke his leg and fought tooth and nail to return to the track early...because he had a competitive package underneath him. The Ducati, unless you are willing to ride it at 11/10ths is NOT a competitive package. Stoner made it competitive because is is one hell of a rider and pushed that bike 11/10ths EVERY race he won. Bear in mind that I am a Ducati fan boy. I love Rossi as well. But I really REALLY wish he was on the Yamaha or the Honda. He is past his prime but definitely hasn't "lost it". Consider it from his POV...2 years ago you crashed and destroyed your leg on a bike that could put him on the podium week in and week out by simply riding it well. And now he is on a bike that could put him on the podium IF he pushed it beyond his comfort limits but could also punt you into the stratosphere in the same instant. You have 9 world championships. You could possibly have a contract with another team or even sport your own satellite team in 2013 on. Do you push hard knowing that the bike is going to take a complete overhaul to be competitive or do you tell Ducati to get you through the season without breaking you in half and take the brunt of the Italian press' animosity so that Ducati won't be avoided like the plague? I don't know the man but if I were in his shoes, I would be looking forward to a contract with Gresini or even Tech 3 on a satellite badged factory bike. Or even moving to WSBK. Fact is, MotoGP has lost its allure. All they really did was take a handful of back-marker Suzuki and Ducatis and added an even slower piece to the puzzle. All I know is the GOAT hasn't lost his mojo. He is protecting himself from getting kicked in the mojo. Ducati either needs to step up their game and present him with a package that can win (Even Hayden who did exceptionally well isn't capable of winning on the Ducati in the dry) or let him go on to a team that can. And to elaborate, didn't the telemetry on the Ducati show Casey crashing several times during races? I mean there is no doubt that Casey could ride the Ducati...but he was pushing HARD AS make the beast with two backs every single race. The wins weren't easy like he made them look on the Honda last year. If the bike is a handful to ride and your career is not over but the factory isn't making the changes either as you requested or at a rate you would like, why would you push the limits? Frankly, when Vale was on the Yamaha, he was riding 8/10ths or 9/10ths and rarely ever had to push it to 100%+. Trying to do that on the Ducati is only going to put him on his head/ass. Why break yourself for a program that isn't advancing and end up having your future suffer? Besides, everyone knows Rossi will be with Ferrari next year in F1. ;D From the "I read it on the internet so it must be true." file... Quote Directly from persons knowing, according to the data reviewed of Casey riding the Duc, it said he crashed 3 times every lap. That is how OVER the limit he was to get results from the machine. What everyone struggles with is the ability of Casey to take a Moto from a data crashed state to recovery consistently multiple times per lap. This is not a good way to be riding a motorcycle. This is why Rossi has always calmly said "Casey rides the Ducati in a very special way" Very special, to save a front end the precise amount of throttle is needed to balance the rear slip and drive and again the data shows that Casey is the ONLY one who is capable of opening the throttle to the EXACT point every time to enable this save to take place. Exactly (nearly) every time! Others 'feather' the throttle in hope of saving the front but are always too slow too fast or too late, in Casey's case he turns the throttle to EXACLTY the precise point instantly to make a save. How does did he do it? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on April 13, 2012, 10:04:07 AM Rossi needs to sack up and ride the bike. For inspiration, perhaps he should look across the garage at his teammate. But maybe that's too difficult, as he got out-qualified and beaten in the race by that teammate. And got pretty well matched on pace in pre-season testing as well. He's becoming the whiny pussy MotoGP rider that he accused most of the paddock of being last year. I agree he should be faster than Hayden, but everyone saying "oh well look at how Hayden did" is full of s**t. Hayden finished 28 seconds behind first on a factory ride. Hayden didn't do jack, and none of the other Ducati riders did either. In fact Hayden rode the nuts off that bike just to finish 28 seconds behind first. The Ducati is a bigger joke this year than last, and still suffers from the same problems. Every race weekend the Ducati reaches a point where it seems to stop improving by any measurable degree, while Honda/Yam keep going. This coupled with the fact the Honda/Yam are already around a second clear without trying means that if we don't get rain, you can forget it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: fastwin on April 13, 2012, 10:39:33 AM Maybe Ducati should just enter the 1199 in MotoGP and call it a prototype. [roll] And again, forget all the Stoner whining "my arms pumped up" bullshit, he made that POS Ducati race bike do what no one else can. No matter hard Nickey works or how skilled the GOAT is Stoner made it happen. Whiney bullshit and all! [thumbsup] Got to give him credit. [Dolph] [bacon]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 13, 2012, 11:45:48 AM Backpedaling started:
http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/04/13/after_a_week_of_rumors_rossi_tells_itali.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2012/04/13/after_a_week_of_rumors_rossi_tells_itali.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on April 13, 2012, 12:26:01 PM Maybe Stoner used the old adage...'when in doubt pin it...it will either solve the problem or you're screwed anyway'? ;D
Others 'feather' the throttle in hope of saving the front but are always too slow too fast or too late, in Casey's case he turns the throttle to EXACTLY the precise point instantly to make a save. How does did he do it? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 13, 2012, 12:44:10 PM KRJ chimes in...
http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120413-1046.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120413-1046.htm) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 13, 2012, 12:53:57 PM KRJ chimes in... http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120413-1046.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120413-1046.htm) the whole thing of course is very worth reading; i liked the end: "Racing right now is just no fun. Life for him right now is probably no fun, but at the same time, that's what racing is normally like. You don't have the perfect bike every season. If you see it once in your career you're lucky." Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on April 13, 2012, 06:46:43 PM None of these guys have won races/titles pedaling a Schwinn. It's all about the bike, especially these days. I think Rossi has won enough championships (on a bunch of different bikes) to know that he's not riding Secretariat, but Mr. Ed.
Frankly, I'm glad that he's publicly expressed his frustration because he could easily smile for the cameras, ride around in 6th, blame it on old injuries, stay healthy, and make a boatload of money. But he hasn't - because he says he wants to win, has pride, and has a crew that, I would hope, also is in this to win championships. I'm Burgess's age and I know that I wouldn't be putting myself thru what he's doing right now just cause I don't like Oz in the winter. All great champions, riders and their crews, want to win - and they're all willing to do what it takes to get there. His "I want to win" attitude alone makes Rossi worth every penny Ducati (Marlboro) pays him - and we don't know what he was promised to sign with a team that he 'swore' he'd never sign with in the past. KRJ backed into his championship and now spends his time "on the water"? WTF.... I'm a little surprised by KRJ's comments - "...having the perfect bike every season...." Hey Ken, it has nothing to do with luck, and Rossi proved in 2004 (and Casey on the Duc, too) that the "perfect" bike isn't necessary, but one that's competitive is. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 14, 2012, 07:43:35 AM None of these guys have won races/titles pedaling a Schwinn. It's all about the bike, especially these days. I think Rossi has won enough championships (on a bunch of different bikes) to know that he's not riding Secretariat, but Mr. Ed. Frankly, I'm glad that he's publicly expressed his frustration because he could easily smile for the cameras, ride around in 6th, blame it on old injuries, stay healthy, and make a boatload of money. But he hasn't - because he says he wants to win, has pride, and has a crew that, I would hope, also is in this to win championships. I'm Burgess's age and I know that I wouldn't be putting myself thru what he's doing right now just cause I don't like Oz in the winter. All great champions, riders and their crews, want to win - and they're all willing to do what it takes to get there. His "I want to win" attitude alone makes Rossi worth every penny Ducati (Marlboro) pays him - and we don't know what he was promised to sign with a team that he 'swore' he'd never sign with in the past. KRJ backed into his championship and now spends his time "on the water"? WTF.... I'm a little surprised by KRJ's comments - "...having the perfect bike every season...." Hey Ken, it has nothing to do with luck, and Rossi proved in 2004 (and Casey on the Duc, too) that the "perfect" bike isn't necessary, but one that's competitive is. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: fastwin on April 14, 2012, 08:23:00 AM ^ what he said. [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Privateer on April 15, 2012, 06:31:53 AM let me preface my comment below with this: I'm a relatively new race fan and I don't have all the background and who-won-what-when, and I do think Rossi is a talented racer altho I am ambivalent towards him as a fan.
So then, I see two things: 1) He is manipulating the press and thereby the public to look like some kind of modern-day Cassandra, then hopefully to repeat the image as the savior of the brand, just like he did at yamaha, if they finally get the bike sorted. I'm not saying he didn't turn the yammie around, but from his statements this what I'm coming away with ("If only they'd listen to me!") 2) He's that kid that didn't learn how to fail. Probably played team sports as a kid and was on the winning team every year. Sure, he didn't win every game/race/whatever, but overall he always comes out on top or least saw a way to victory for the following season. Right now that isn't happening and he's not equipped to handle it. again, just what I'm getting from the rumor mill and his own statements. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on April 15, 2012, 06:50:27 AM I don't think he ever played organized team sports.
Been racing since he was 5. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 15, 2012, 06:52:42 AM I don't think he ever played organized team sports. Been racing since he was 5. ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 15, 2012, 06:53:28 AM 1) He is manipulating the press and thereby the public to look like some kind of modern-day Cassandra, then hopefully to repeat the image as the savior of the brand, just like he did at yamaha, if they finally get the bike sorted. I'm not saying he didn't turn the yammie around, but from his statements this what I'm coming away with ("If only they'd listen to me!") it's true he's very good at using the press. however he spent a YEAR waving the ducati flag when he could have been saying all the things he's saying now. he knew from day one he was in deep shit but he was very much a team player in 2011. 2) He's that kid that didn't learn how to fail. Probably played team sports as a kid and was on the winning team every year. Sure, he didn't win every game/race/whatever, but overall he always comes out on top or least saw a way to victory for the following season. Right now that isn't happening and he's not equipped to handle it. i get what you're saying but.. - though you were using it as metaphor, in 2010 when he did fall in a major way he was back long before anyone thought it possible. he's not a prima donna who just expects to win and go back to his trailer. and before that broken leg he had competed in every single race since he started in 125s. never missed one. and it's not like he was never sick or injured since 1996. - he's 'always won' because he's a make the beast with two backsing monster on the track. that goofy off track persona is just that. he's a natural no doubt and exceptionally talented but no one wants to win as badly as he does. obviously i'm pro-Rossi. and hell yes, he has a history of using the press to his benefit. but frankly him saying the bike is unrideable is not to his benefit. he wants to go win races, not have a pissing contest with his team and then go sit out the season. but, he's just fed up. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 15, 2012, 01:05:09 PM I really thought that Rossi would be the guy Ducati would listen to. I think they genuinely have tried to give him what he wants. They built him a Japanese type alloy beam frame and ditched their own innovation which would have hurt.
Ducati are just struggling to get the bike to the percentage needed to be truly competitive. There's one other thing, Rossi's self confidence and incredible self belief are dented for the first time since I've seen him race. This is outside his normal experience, so he is acting out in a way we fans are not used to. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Spidey on April 15, 2012, 01:56:17 PM I don't entirely understand what the controversy is here. Rossi is fed up with having the bike suck, and is starting to get publicly frustrated. Why is that a problem? Hayden's approach for the last couple of years has sold himself--and Ducati--short.
And why is everyone always looking to call someone or another a whiner? Racers are always asked about how their race. When they say anything other than "I just didn't go fast enough" or give a technical answer, they're accused of blaming the machine or whining. WTF? I'd rather hear the technical stuff than hear Nicky's good-ole-boy BS about how we're workin' real hard, we have to do better, and shucks, we'll just keep plowin' through the tough times, doggoneit. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 15, 2012, 06:11:26 PM It's as much sensationalism as controversy.
The controversy is about how much the problem is him and how much the machine. The sensation is that he is in such a hapless position and unable to ride around the problems when he always could in the past. When the Yamaha had problems, he still got on the podium and won a few races, despite the occasional crash. Ducati have tried real hard for Rossi, harder for him than for anyone else in GP. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on April 15, 2012, 08:33:46 PM Personally i think the gp bike is beyond preziosi‘s ability and rossi sees it that's why attack the bike
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: triangleforge on April 15, 2012, 09:01:16 PM About how much of this interview do you think Burgess would like to take back these days?
http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1010_jeremy_burgess_talks_about_his_move_to_ducati_motogp_with_rossi/index.html (http://www.sportrider.com/news/146_1010_jeremy_burgess_talks_about_his_move_to_ducati_motogp_with_rossi/index.html) "I don’t think there are any issues in the bike that are a big worry to me." Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 16, 2012, 05:42:57 AM I'm a little surprised by KRJ's comments - "...having the perfect bike every season...." Hey Ken, it has nothing to do with luck, and Rossi proved in 2004 (and Casey on the Duc, too) that the "perfect" bike isn't necessary, but one that's competitive is. I think his comments there are quite valid given how you NOW seemingly tune a bike to the tires and set the ever expansive electronics on these machines nowadays....the 500 2smokes and the 990's were a different animal in how you could take a marginal machine and work with it using rider talent to overcompensate...hence why Rossi was able to make the 2004 Yammie hit as hard as it did on the grid...it was much more the rider and his right hand and less about the chassis and set up ( not saying I am negating the bike, but set-up, etc. issues were much more overcomable) the 800 era changed alot of that...and Casey in 07 had several things working in his favor with that GP7...he had a bike that had more power than anyone saw coming in the way it rocketshipped on the straights and fired out of the corners....it also had the almost exclusive relationship with Bridgestone of development from/with the machine due to most everyone else using Michelin....and it had Casey's youth and will to ride the machine past it's limits like he does( AND DID on the LCR/Givi 990 Honda RC211V)....pair that with the game of electronics that started to ramp way up in 08 on and forcing the more parade like pattern of racing that we got for the duration of the 800 era....which started to move the evolution of machine importance over rider in terms of abilities....and in that sense, I think to a good degree...he is right on the money.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: fastwin on April 16, 2012, 07:39:54 AM ^ What he said. Parade racing indeed. [roll] :P
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 16, 2012, 08:46:50 AM And why is everyone always looking to call someone or another a whiner? bingo. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: IdZer0 on April 16, 2012, 11:03:15 PM This is why I'm a Rossi fan:
Rossi teaches Lorenzo a lesson! - Catalunya 2009 MotoGP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUNpKx9h1VY#) Rossi-Stoner Laguna Seca 2008 battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfPM77TsGaA&#) He makes the show worth watching. Ever since he moved to Ducati MotoGP's been boring. Whether it's the rider or the bike, we'll have to wait a couple of years to really know. You have to give Lorenzo and Casey credit though, you need two to Tango. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 17, 2012, 08:33:34 AM Phillip Island, 2003. 10 second penalty. Won by 15 seconds.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 17, 2012, 08:35:42 AM David Emmett sums it all up nicely:
http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/04/17/between_the_devil_and_the_deep_blue_sea_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/04/17/between_the_devil_and_the_deep_blue_sea_.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 17, 2012, 08:49:26 AM David Emmett sums it all up nicely: doesn't he always. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 17, 2012, 09:14:43 AM The Island display by Rossi has to be one of the greatest wins ever.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: derby on April 17, 2012, 09:19:34 AM Phillip Island, 2003. 10 second penalty. Won by 15 seconds. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Triple J on April 17, 2012, 09:23:41 AM Great article! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: koko64 on April 17, 2012, 09:46:04 AM Moto GPs complex political machinations well explained.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Speeddog on April 17, 2012, 11:02:29 AM <Captain Obvious>
Those 'Rossi's Greatest Hits' are nice, but the most recent one was nearly 3 years ago.... Time is marching on. </Captain Obvious> Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 17, 2012, 11:14:01 AM 2010 and 2011 were both kind of a waste. and he still did some amazing stuff in 2010 after he came back from the leg & while still suffering from the shoulder.
still, obviously he's not getting any younger. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on April 17, 2012, 12:22:01 PM He won two races and had 10 podiums in 2010, while suffering a bum shoulder the entire season and destroying his leg in the Mugello crash which caused him to miss 4 rounds. The dude came back on crutches to race on that leg. Outside of his injuries that year, I'd say he did pretty damn well.
2011 was the Duc, and 2012 is the Duc. The only way we'll know if he still has it is if Ducati fixes their bike, or he changes to Yam/Honda next year. Otherwise nobody knows. I imagine he hasn't lost much. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Spidey on April 17, 2012, 01:50:03 PM That article just made me sad. :'(
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 17, 2012, 01:59:21 PM That article just made me sad. :'( yeah. i think he chose its title over his first logical choice, 'between a rock and a hard place'. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on April 18, 2012, 07:21:09 AM Between a rock and retirement.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 18, 2012, 07:56:23 AM Between a rock and fixed it for ya... ;) [thumbsup] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: thought on April 18, 2012, 08:18:56 AM Having Rossi possibly in WSBK is what makes Biaggi wake up in cold sweats every night.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 18, 2012, 08:29:44 AM Having Rossi possibly in WSBK is what makes Biaggi wake up in cold sweats every night. it would be tits to have Rossi stuffing it up the inside of him on an 1199 like Simo did on the Priller.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: fastwin on April 18, 2012, 10:17:58 AM ^ what he said! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: IdZer0 on April 18, 2012, 11:23:37 AM Or maybe he can start a CRT team based on the 1199 engine [laugh]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: derby on April 18, 2012, 11:38:11 AM Or maybe he can start a CRT team based on the 1199 engine [laugh] the rules currently don't favor a twin... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 18, 2012, 12:09:19 PM the rules currently don't favor a twin... or any motor above 1000cc's.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 18, 2012, 03:06:25 PM not that we haven't watched these laps a hundred times already, but i came across this 'produced' version of the highlights earlier today. gave me chills.
http://www.break.com/index/the-greatest-motogp-finish-of-all-time-2319171 (http://www.break.com/index/the-greatest-motogp-finish-of-all-time-2319171) (trivia question: the background music in this video, in a slightly different arrangement, is used in the last scene of what movie?) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: kopfjäger on April 18, 2012, 03:59:19 PM not that we haven't watched these laps a hundred times already, but i came across this 'produced' version of the highlights earlier today. gave me chills. http://www.break.com/index/the-greatest-motogp-finish-of-all-time- (http://www.break.com/index/the-greatest-motogp-finish-of-all-time-2319171) My vote goes to this one. [evil] 500cc 1991 Suzuka Final Lap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HXqZh5oTK0&feature=youtube_gdata_player#) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on April 20, 2012, 12:50:25 PM SoupKast 146 "T.M.F.C." -- Ryder, Moody, Noyes weigh in. well worth listening...
http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast146.mp3 (http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast146.mp3) http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/soupkast/id159178955 (http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/soupkast/id159178955) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on April 26, 2012, 05:48:41 PM My vote goes to this one. [evil] [evil] That was a millennium ago... ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 27, 2012, 03:21:26 AM now...for the sake of arguement...take the spotlight off of Rossi for a moment...and see a moment of clarity and a touch of class...
http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ZLTFUL on April 27, 2012, 07:05:22 AM now...for the sake of arguement...take the spotlight off of Rossi for a moment...and see a moment of clarity and a touch of class... http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm) While I agree that it was classy of Nicky... Nicky is also "just" Nicky. Do you think Hayden has a chance at any other ride if Ducati punted him to the curb? Of course he isn't going to rock the boat no matter how bad things are getting. Rossi can piss and moan because...well he has 9 world championships and a very storied career to give him a fluffy marshmallow of protection of sorts. That being said, the entire Hayden family have always been pretty classy...for hillbillies [laugh] (I keed I keed). I have never seen or heard of any of the boys, mom or Earl being anything but just honestly good folks. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Triple J on April 27, 2012, 07:17:49 AM now...for the sake of arguement...take the spotlight off of Rossi for a moment...and see a moment of clarity and a touch of class... http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm) This is a big reason I like Hayden. [thumbsup] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on April 27, 2012, 07:39:36 AM Do you think Hayden has a chance at any other ride if Ducati punted him to the curb? YES...I do...because he has a hard work ethic, and while he isn't top tier alien...he is a solid rider capable of results and doesn't complain and puts on a very good PR face....look after all at how he was getting the shaft at HRC when Dani came in and yet, he didn't voice any of what you know he was feeling.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on April 27, 2012, 07:42:53 AM I'm torn with this one. They are both world champions and should be allowed their opinions of the bikes they are riding. Rolling the team under the bus is a douchebag move, but it seems to be getting results. Maybe they should have done a role reversal and have Nicky pregnant dog. Maybe then Ducati might have said "damn, the bike is so bad that even Nicky is complaining?"
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ZLTFUL on April 27, 2012, 08:08:43 AM YES...I do...because he has a hard work ethic, and while he isn't top tier alien...he is a solid rider capable of results and doesn't complain and puts on a very good PR face....look after all at how he was getting the shaft at HRC when Dani came in and yet, he didn't voice any of what you know he was feeling.... I don't disagree with your work ethic comment. But look at Colin. The same strong work ethic and the man is nothing if not consistent. But he has been relegated to a CRT team and not even one owned by the team that was so appreciative of everything he has done. If Nicky were to ever leave Ducati, I think he would have a hard time finding anything more than a CRT team. Even the satellite teams would pass on him to get an up and coming Moto2 star to groom for an eventual factory ride. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on April 27, 2012, 08:14:33 AM I don't disagree with your work ethic comment. But look at Colin. The same strong work ethic and the man is nothing if not consistent. But he has been relegated to a CRT team and not even one owned by the team that was so appreciative of everything he has done. If Nicky were to ever leave Ducati, I think he would have a hard time finding anything more than a CRT team. Even the satellite teams would pass on him to get an up and coming Moto2 star to groom for an eventual factory ride. Yup...because loyalty and hard work mean nothing in today's society. Wouldn't you agree? ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Triple J on April 27, 2012, 08:36:30 AM I don't disagree with your work ethic comment. But look at Colin. The same strong work ethic and the man is nothing if not consistent. But he has been relegated to a CRT team and not even one owned by the team that was so appreciative of everything he has done. If Nicky were to ever leave Ducati, I think he would have a hard time finding anything more than a CRT team. Even the satellite teams would pass on him to get an up and coming Moto2 star to groom for an eventual factory ride. I have to agree. Hayden to WSBK on a factory 1199 would be very cool though! [thumbsup] I could see Ducati offering him that if he lost his GP seat. He'd have a legitimate shot at winning again as well...which I'm guessing he would like. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: thought on April 27, 2012, 11:52:42 AM While I would love to see Hayden on a 1199 in wsbk.. is it sad to say that he seems a bit young for the wsbk winners circle nowadays? [laugh]
Overall though... I think everyone would rather just see the whole motogp paddock in wsbk. Would at least make a great exhibition race. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: MadDuck on April 27, 2012, 09:45:21 PM While I would love to see Hayden on a 1199 in wsbk.. is it sad to say that he seems a bit young for the wsbk winners circle nowadays? [laugh] Overall though... I think everyone would rather just see the whole motogp paddock in wsbk. Would at least make a great exhibition race. Now, there's a Thought. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: kopfjäger on April 27, 2012, 10:14:24 PM now...for the sake of arguement...take the spotlight off of Rossi for a moment...and see a moment of clarity and a touch of class... http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm) [clap] Most folks won't get it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Drunken Monkey on April 28, 2012, 11:41:28 AM (trivia question: the background music in this video, in a slightly different arrangement, is used in the last scene of what movie?) It's Moby's "the spirit of God moving over the waters"... so the correct answer would be "Heat" Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Desmostro on April 28, 2012, 02:46:49 PM On Nicky Hayden... now...for the sake of arguement...take the spotlight off of Rossi for a moment...and see a moment of clarity and a touch of class... http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm) wow. wow. Especially the last paragraph. "The following is just a sketch: when all of the early teen Hayden kids were racing on the regional level and enjoyed sponsorships, as the season would close, the Hayden's would make quiet inquires as to what music each sponsor representative enjoyed listening to. Then, at the end of the season, a hand-written letter would arrive from the family, thanking the sponsor for their support. Along with the letter, would be a cassette tape of music that Earl and the kids had recorded off the radio for the sponsor to enjoy. Not really the kind of people who throw their team under the bus, after the first race, or frankly, ever." (from the above posted: http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/Apr/120426016.htm)) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: triangleforge on April 28, 2012, 03:00:47 PM On Nicky Hayden... ...would be a cassette tape of music that Earl and the kids had recorded off the radio for the sponsor to enjoy. Recorded off the radio... Apparently Nicky is WAY older than I thought! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: mitt on April 28, 2012, 05:06:56 PM Recorded off the radio... Apparently Nicky is WAY older than I thought! Plus it was in Kentucky, so that is like 10 years behind the times (I can talk, I am from Iowa which is maybe 8 years behind ;D ) mitt Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on April 30, 2012, 03:28:25 PM Nicky, Rossi, Casey, Capirex....I'm starting to wonder if the Duc isn't some sort of heroic challenge that past champions must pass through before entering MotoGP Valhalla.... [coffee]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: derby on April 30, 2012, 03:54:17 PM Nicky, Rossi, Casey, Capirex....I'm starting to wonder if the Duc isn't some sort of heroic challenge that past champions must pass through before entering MotoGP Valhalla.... [coffee] what championship did casey win before ducati? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 01, 2012, 03:21:19 AM what championship did casey win before ducati? was it a 125 or a 250 class?...can't recall... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 01, 2012, 03:23:48 AM was it a 125 or a 250 class?...can't recall... neither...Casey's only championships were in OZ Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 01, 2012, 03:37:28 AM neither... Casey's only championships were in OZ I thought he had won something or other in a 125 or 250 class in Europe when his family moved him for to race there....maybe I am wrong...I admit haze on the subject... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 01, 2012, 03:41:22 AM I thought he had won something or other in a 125 or 250 class in Europe when his family moved him for to race there....maybe I am wrong...I admit haze on the subject... Yeah...He did win something in Britain. I was, and I think derby was, referring to a world title. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 01, 2012, 04:32:29 AM Yeah... He did win something in Britain. I was, and I think derby was, referring to a world title. toe-mae-toe...toe-mah-toe....he didn't say "world"...so I went on the "championship" end of things....LOL Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 01, 2012, 04:43:14 AM toe-mae-toe...toe-mah-toe....he didn't say "world"...so I went on the "championship" end of things....LOL All the others mentioned held 'world' titles. ;)whatever...Casey has matured into a world champion. It's looking like he'll repeat with Honda. Except this thread is about the old guy that is on his way out apparently. I don't think it's because of a lack of talent or age. He made some decisions based on ego, IMO, and they're biting him in the ass. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on May 01, 2012, 04:46:34 AM for sure, Rossi thought he was better than Stoner and would prove it by riding the hell out of the Duc. NOPE. Didn't happen, so he tried to say the Duc was the problem, thing is, everyone already knew that. Now he make a bastardized Duc to suit his style and it still isn't right.
This all goes back to making a Ducati a Ducati and not a Japanese clone. Go back to what they know, so it handles the way a Ducati should. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on May 01, 2012, 06:21:36 AM I don't think it's because of a lack of talent or age. He made some decisions based on ego, IMO, and they're biting him in the ass. agreed. however i think the decisions may have been more about a vision for the perfect swansong than ego. he really had nothing left to prove in motorcycle racing. ago's record sure, but everyone knows he was riding 27 classes when he did that. hell, in 1 random day on the R1 2 years ago valentino was faster than the whole wsbk paddock. so they guy at the coffee shop, "why you no go ducati?" finally got to him. what a perfect way to end his motogp career, a 10th title on an italian marque. it's like a movie. ...may end up being straight to dvd however. let's hope that abandoning the 90° gets him into the corners. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 01, 2012, 06:31:50 AM The only one that needs a perfect swansong is someone with a huge ego.
The rest of us will just get scraped up off the floor when we're done. [laugh] Rossi left Honda because of their claim that it was the bike. I think Yourghey's rise at Yamaha and his salary, that was reported to equal or surpass Rossi's caused him to leave there... along with this perfect scenario to end his career. [/end picking nits] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: derby on May 01, 2012, 06:43:49 AM I think Yourghey's rise at Yamaha and his salary, that was reported to equal or surpass Rossi's caused him to leave there... along with this perfect scenario to end his career. [/end picking nits] i think the yamaha money issue was more that they asked rossi to take a pay cut ("for the team") and he subsequently found out it funded lorenzo's increase. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 01, 2012, 06:44:06 AM speaking of Rossi's swansong...
http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 01, 2012, 07:02:24 AM http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388)
[roll] I think I'll enjoy this season, which is only two-races old, before I start worrying about post-2012 possibilities... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 01, 2012, 07:53:17 AM http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-post-racing-contract-analysis/#more-30388) you derbier....you posted the same link right after me...LOL [roll] I think I'll enjoy this season, which is only two-races old, before I start worrying about post-2012 possibilities... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 01, 2012, 05:43:34 PM Actually, I intended to make a reply to your post of the article but didn't want it to look like I was rolling my eyes at you, just at the story - so I edited out the "Quote from zoom....". Let that be a lesson to me - don't think too deeply or have any respect for the feelings of others around here ;D
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 02, 2012, 03:08:18 AM tis all good....the only problem with not worrying about post season now, is that all of these contracts that expire this year will cause a frenzied silly season and everyone's performance in the meantime dictates the desireability level of their renewal status...so results 2,3,4 races in do mean something...maybe not as weighty as the season as a whole, but when your job is on the line, you bet your ass the manu's are watching to see whom they are protecting as their franchise quarterbacks...Rossi's is just as much a variable based on what and how he does as anyone else's out there right now....
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 02, 2012, 07:52:20 PM Agree....but for the large amount of money they make and the little amount of time they have to work to make it, there's no excuse for not giving 110% all the time...those guys that aren't should be the ones sweating out a job for next year.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on May 03, 2012, 08:51:26 AM ... Hoffman who?
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 03, 2012, 12:02:53 PM The problem is also with the young talent from Moto2 and WSBK. There are only 6 factory spots. The satellites are not what they used to be, except maybe for Tech3. The Pedrosas, Spies and Haydens might need to start looking elsewhere for rides.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 04, 2012, 08:42:42 AM You think?
Those guys are all multiple-title winners. Only one I see as in-danger is Spies... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 05, 2012, 02:07:04 PM Pedrosa has not won shit. The only thing saving him is Marquez having to go to a satellite team for his rookie season. Hayden outworking Rossi helps his chances on staying on the hog.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 06, 2012, 05:18:08 PM Pedrosa's practically a cripple, I'm surprised he's still riding.....rumors are he's going sailing after this year, anyway.... [coffee]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: triangleforge on May 07, 2012, 09:07:27 AM An interesting read:
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/preziosi+press+conference (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/preziosi+press+conference) Does anyone else read those last lines like a response to Rossi's comments that started this thread in the first place? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 07, 2012, 09:29:32 AM what I found interesting was this quote...
Quote ...The plan is to test with Valentino in May, and Nicky in May, June and July. .... all of the changes are per Val's request, but Nicky is testing them more than Val?!?!?!? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 07, 2012, 10:40:55 AM Val expects them to do exactly what he says. he doesn't need to test it.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 07, 2012, 03:04:28 PM Does anyone else read those last lines like a response to Rossi's comments that started this thread in the first place? Between the lines, it sounds like "...blame Rossi and Burgess if it doesn't work; we're only doing what they tell us to do..." Hasn't Rossi's biggest complaint been the lack of feel entering a turn? How will playing with the torque/hp curve, which Preziosi says will help riders after they're leaned over, address the turn-in issue? Preziosi washes his hands... Rossi says he's a rider, not an engineer.... And I swore I'd just watch the racing and avoid all the soaps....... :P Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on May 07, 2012, 05:08:13 PM Between the lines, it sounds like "...blame Rossi and Burgess if it doesn't work; we're only doing what they tell us to do..." Hasn't Rossi's biggest complaint been the lack of feel entering a turn? How will playing with the torque/hp curve, which Preziosi says will help riders after they're leaned over, address the turn-in issue? Preziosi washes his hands... Rossi says he's a rider, not an engineer.... And I swore I'd just watch the racing and avoid all the soaps....... :P Lately he said braking and entry feel solid, but the bike is too harsh on power delivery once you crack the throttle to get out of the corner, which equals rear spin, bike sliding, understeer, and wheelie. He can't power through and out of corners as fast as Honda/Yamaha, hence a slow bike. They say that's not going to fix the gap, but hopefully close it a bit. The bike still needs chassis improvements. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: The Don on May 07, 2012, 06:34:06 PM An interesting read: when I read the article, I thought, is Nicky not on the team anymore? http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/preziosi+press+conference (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/preziosi+press+conference) Does anyone else read those last lines like a response to Rossi's comments that started this thread in the first place? Rossi this and Rossi that. Rossi has done jack, Nicky is putting in the hard yards and is being ignored, F#%k Ducati Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: kopfjäger on May 07, 2012, 07:17:44 PM when I read the article, I thought, is Nicky not on the team anymore? Rossi this and Rossi that. Rossi has done jack, Nicky is putting in the hard yards and is being ignored, F#%k Ducati You won't hear Earl's son whining, he wasn't raised that way. ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on May 07, 2012, 09:07:24 PM when I read the article, I thought, is Nicky not on the team anymore? Rossi this and Rossi that. Rossi has done jack, Nicky is putting in the hard yards and is being ignored, F#%k Ducati No offense, but Nicky isn't exactly lighting up the lap charts either. Who cares how hard he works or if he keeps his mouth shut..... he doesn't get results either and his only track record outside of his "consistancy" championship is the guy that puts in lots of practice laps and doesn't win jack. Even at his peak he very rarely won anything. Acting like Hayden should be lead input on a bike is ludicrous. I remember when Stoner talked about Hayden when he was at Ducati. One time he was asked if he should look at Hayden's setup, and he quickly pointed out that Hayden can't ride as fast as him, so his setup would be garbage. Rossi may be using Hayden's setup as a baseline, but its obviously not going to close the 25-30 second gap or Rossi would already be on the pace, and Hayden would have been there as well. Contending for 3 laps at Jerez and then falling off like a brick doesn't mean Hayden is performing. I like Hayden, but he has never been a number one since he left AMA. He's a number two factory guy. That's all he ever was. He keeps his mouth shut because he knows how precious a factory seat is and that he's lucky to still be in one. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on May 07, 2012, 11:22:55 PM uh doesn't Hayden have a championship?
and didn't he outshine Rossi almost each race and practice so far this year. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: kopfjäger on May 08, 2012, 12:33:32 AM uh doesn't Hayden have a championship? and didn't he outshine Rossi almost each race and practice so far this year. Of course he did, but folks won't ever give him credit for his hard work, they'd rather rally around a whiner. ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: The Don on May 08, 2012, 12:43:29 AM No offense, but Nicky isn't exactly lighting up the lap charts either. Who cares how hard he works or if he keeps his mouth shut..... he doesn't get results either and his only track record outside of his "consistancy" championship is the guy that puts in lots of practice laps and doesn't win jack. Even at his peak he very rarely won anything. You may be right, but Rossi did nothing last year, looks like he's doing nothing this year, is being paid $$$$ and Ducati are crawling up his arse, While Nicky is treated like the red head stepchild. At least Nicky is having a go, I like his never say die attitude and think Ducati should show him a little respect. Acting like Hayden should be lead input on a bike is ludicrous. I remember when Stoner talked about Hayden when he was at Ducati. One time he was asked if he should look at Hayden's setup, and he quickly pointed out that Hayden can't ride as fast as him, so his setup would be garbage. Rossi may be using Hayden's setup as a baseline, but its obviously not going to close the 25-30 second gap or Rossi would already be on the pace, and Hayden would have been there as well. Contending for 3 laps at Jerez and then falling off like a brick doesn't mean Hayden is performing. I like Hayden, but he has never been a number one since he left AMA. He's a number two factory guy. That's all he ever was. He keeps his mouth shut because he knows how precious a factory seat is and that he's lucky to still be in one. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 08, 2012, 06:17:08 AM Nicky and Dovi are in the same category. Very consistent, but never fast enough to win. They have no killer instinct. I've seen Nicky sit behind a much slower guy for laps after laps waiting for him to make a mistake instead of pushing the guy to actually make it. They will never be the #1 guy on any team.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Triple J on May 08, 2012, 06:53:36 AM I don't buy the argument that Nicky is a number 2 factory rider.
He has a championship. Call it a consistency championship if you want, but he was on the podium damn near every race that season, won 2 races, and won the championship..despite being taken out by his teammate. Since then he has been on a shit bike. First the 800 Honda (which was junk), and then the Ducati (which is still junk). The last year he was on a good bike he won. His #1 teammates at Ducati and Honda never won a championship on the bike he was also riding. I think he'd be battling for the front with a good bike. They should swap him and Ben. [coffee] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 08, 2012, 10:12:16 AM No killer instinct.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on May 08, 2012, 10:52:26 AM I don't buy the argument that Nicky is a number 2 factory rider. He has a championship. Call it a consistency championship if you want, but he was on the podium damn near every race that season, won 2 races, and won the championship..despite being taken out by his teammate. Since then he has been on a shit bike. First the 800 Honda (which was junk), and then the Ducati (which is still junk). The last year he was on a good bike he won. His #1 teammates at Ducati and Honda never won a championship on the bike he was also riding. I think he'd be battling for the front with a good bike. They should swap him and Ben. [coffee] He won three races total on the RC211V, one of the best bikes ever, over a span of 4 seasons. Pedrobot came in as a rookie and won 2 races out of the box in 1 season on that bike. Hayden also won his championship with the third lowest point total of the modern scoring era, on a bike much less prone to crashing than the 500cc machines of 1993/1995, and that was Hayden's best year by far, which isn't saying much. He has a career winning percentage of 1.9% in the premier class. Sete Gibernau had 8 wins on the same Honda and scored more points than Hayden's championship total twice. Max Biaggi matched his win total while riding a satellite version in fewer seasons. I can't buy the argument he was ever a number one. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 08, 2012, 10:54:00 AM <snip> Despite the fact that he had more points than the rest that year?I can't buy the argument he was ever a number one. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Jester on May 08, 2012, 11:14:50 AM Despite the fact that he had more points than the rest that year? I'm saying his championship doesn't automatically qualify him as a lead rider(number one) factory team investment. His body of work in the premier class says otherwise. 3 wins out of 150 something races over the span of 9 seasons on factory hardware doesn't cut it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: zooom on May 08, 2012, 11:20:34 AM http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120508a.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120508a.htm)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 08, 2012, 11:28:58 AM I'm saying his championship doesn't automatically qualify him as a lead rider(number one) factory team investment. His body of work in the premier class says otherwise. 3 wins out of 150 something races over the span of 9 seasons on factory hardware doesn't cut it. I agree.I misunderstood. A lot of people don't consider Nicky a champion, which is where I thought you were going. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Goat_Herder on May 08, 2012, 01:16:42 PM A lot of people don't consider Nicky a champion.. How so? Because he didn't win a lot of races but instead won by consistency? I am not being confrontational. Just curious on what the counter argument is. I do think his lack of wins and overall success would diminish his Champion status and his career. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on May 08, 2012, 01:24:37 PM How so? Because he didn't win a lot of races but instead won by consistency? I am not being confrontational. Just curious on what the counter argument is. I do think his lack of wins and overall success would diminish his Champion status and his career. Whoa...we're on the same team. Sorry if I wasn't clear.I think his championship was 100% valid and well deserved. Some people do feel the quality of his title is diminished by his low number of wins. I think they're incorrect. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: OT on May 08, 2012, 08:04:42 PM Whoa...we're on the same team. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think his championship was 100% valid and well deserved. Some people do feel the quality of his title is diminished by his low number of wins. I think they're incorrect. [thumbsup] He might have been able to fight for one more win if not for Pedrobot's body check. Also, the fellow he beat that year was a hard-charging, in-his-prime Valentino Rossi who (although with his own problems during the season) fought him to the last race. http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120508a.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2012/May/120508a.htm) Burgess was quoted in BIKE, shortly after he and Rossi signed with Ducati, about why he went to Ducati instead of staying at Yamaha to work with a young rider that "Rossi's schedule fit his better than [one of the young riders at Yamaha]". So, the possibility of retirement at the end of the 2-year contract was in the cards two years ago.Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: gm2 on May 10, 2012, 02:29:01 PM No killer instinct. that's not how he looked in the first 5 laps of Jerez. if the bike hadn't eaten the tires, he was killin' some folks that race. rest of that, yeah, he's a journeyman. but he was on the podium NINE times in 2006, which is how he was in the position to pick up the pieces when Valentino threw it away. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Drunken Monkey on May 12, 2012, 07:24:16 PM Leaked photo of Rossi's latest prototype:
(http://[url=http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477136_10150768213591207_689716206_9718264_2073941910_o.jpg]http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477136_10150768213591207_689716206_9718264_2073941910_o.jpg[/url]) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on May 14, 2012, 02:30:03 AM Leaked photo of Rossi's latest prototype: (http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477136_10150768213591207_689716206_9718264_2073941910_o.jpg]http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477136_10150768213591207_689716206_9718264_2073941910_o.jpg) Fixed Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: DRKWNG on May 14, 2012, 07:42:57 AM [laugh] [laugh]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati, Bridgstone, Dorma Post by: Desmostro on July 05, 2012, 03:11:35 PM Fixed.
Rossi vs. Ducati, Bridgstone, Dorma (http://www.infullgear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/rossi-tyre-copy.jpg) http://www.infullgear.com/blog/13064/foto-motogp-assen-le-gomme-distrutte-di-rossi-e-spies.html (http://www.infullgear.com/blog/13064/foto-motogp-assen-le-gomme-distrutte-di-rossi-e-spies.html) (http://www.infullgear.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/spies-gomma-assen-zoom.jpg) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Desmostro on July 06, 2012, 10:16:30 AM Casey Stoner Talking about Bridgstone sheit tires:
http://topsportracing.com/casey-stoner-does-not-trust-the-bridgestone (http://topsportracing.com/casey-stoner-does-not-trust-the-bridgestone) "Speaking of chatter is inevitable to bring up the tires, again at the center of controversy after the problems experienced by Valentino Rossi at Assen. ”I still can not say anything, but the point is that tires are defective. It justifies speaking of structures, tire pressure or anything, but when you see pieces come off the rubber, there are no excuses.” According to Stoner, the quality of the Japanese tire has gradually declining since the Bridgestone became the sole provider of the premier class. “Do not ever admit that there is something wrong with the tires. But there really be trusted? The reality is they are getting worse: the lap times are higher every year, the pilots make it increasingly difficult to break records . technology improves, but we are slower, it’s frustrating. “ The Australian also critical for the Safety Commission, a body tasked with improving the safety of riders. “I’ve completely given up talking with them. I run with Bridgestone in 2007, and is the same thing every year: never admit mistakes. The Safety Commission does not make decisions, only serves to protect the interests of some people. I’m leaving the next year and I do not think things will change in the short term, so I avoid mixed up. “ Out on the track, Stoner goes straight to the point." Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on July 08, 2012, 04:38:57 AM wonder if the tires are what failed on Stoner on that crash?
Title: Re: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: duccarlos on July 08, 2012, 05:32:18 AM You think they sabotaged them?
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: Raux on July 08, 2012, 07:58:43 AM If those tires keep chunking like they are. someone is going to get killed
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: MadDuck on July 08, 2012, 07:59:04 PM wonder if the tires are what failed on Stoner on that crash? Pedrossa just set the fastest lap time of any rider and Casey just pushed it enough to wash the front. No sabotage, no failure on the tire's part. Just racing. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: ducpainter on July 09, 2012, 01:55:26 AM wonder if the tires are what failed on Stoner on that crash? Please guys...keep the comments on this weeks races in the threads marked with a spoiler tag. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on July 09, 2012, 11:21:54 AM different tune, maybe:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101106 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101106) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on July 09, 2012, 12:29:19 PM different tune, maybe: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101106 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101106) I was going to reply with something of the effect, they threw a shitload of money his way, but he's already getting a shitload of money. Audi can only do so much, but they can definitely put some weight behind what Rossi and Burgess are saying and getting rid of the obstacles that are in their way, which will remain nameless. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Post by: BastrdHK on July 11, 2012, 01:18:49 AM Pedrossa just set the fastest lap time of any rider and Casey just pushed it enough to wash the front. No sabotage, no failure on the tire's part. Just racing. Casey pushed hard into the final corner, and ate it. That was one of the smoothest crashes you will see. He was on the edge and it just ever so slightly gave up. He could not have placed it down any more gentle. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on July 11, 2012, 04:26:50 AM I was going to reply with something of the effect, they threw a shitload of money his way, but he's already getting a shitload of money. Audi can only do so much, but they can definitely put some weight behind what Rossi and Burgess are saying and getting rid of the obstacles that are in their way, which will remain nameless. one thing that Audi can potentially do though is allow Corse to use the Audi racing resources to fabricate parts that Corse can't currenty do and is currently subcontracting out to have done...stuff that Yamaha and HRC have in house ( hence how and why they can churn out parts for their bikes in development so much faster)...so that resource alone can be invaluable!Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on July 11, 2012, 04:34:34 AM Audi could actually hire a new bike designer and get rid of the guy that can't design a MotoGP bike from the ground up.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on July 11, 2012, 04:59:13 AM Audi could actually hire a new bike designer and get rid of the guy that can't design a MotoGP bike from the ground up. except that designing a GP bike isn't an overnight endeavour anymore....similar to how BMW taking the time that they did in terms of growing pains to build a WSBK from the ground up... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on July 11, 2012, 05:02:05 AM except that designing a GP bike isn't an overnight endeavour anymore....similar to how BMW taking the time that they did in terms of growing pains to build a WSBK from the ground up... how about starting with the 2007 bike. before the CF disaster Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on July 11, 2012, 05:33:39 AM one thing that Audi can potentially do though is allow Corse to use the Audi racing resources to fabricate parts that Corse can't currenty do and is currently subcontracting out to have done...stuff that Yamaha and HRC have in house ( hence how and why they can churn out parts for their bikes in development so much faster)...so that resource alone can be invaluable! Especially since Audi has a lot of xp with al frames back from when they made a a8 from a al space frame. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on July 11, 2012, 05:34:59 AM how about starting with the 2007 bike. before the CF disaster I'm really starting to wonder if the CF really was that much of a disaster. Even with a al twin spar frame the same handling issues are there... so there has to be something else intrinsically wrong with the bike in general. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on July 11, 2012, 06:30:27 AM I'm really starting to wonder if the CF really was that much of a disaster. Even with a al twin spar frame the same handling issues are there... so there has to be something else intrinsically wrong with the bike in general. like the angle of the motor for example? now...the CF frame concept was created to solve a different issue altogether though...and it served well as I recall for to help funnel more air into the mouth of the beast.. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on July 11, 2012, 07:14:22 AM They want to stick with the V format, so now you have to design everything else around it. Rossi also seems to be requesting exactly what was done for the 1199, tone down the power delivery and make it smoother. Funny how they wee able to accomplish 2 things on the 1199, handling and power delivery, that they just can't get right on the GP12. Funny.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on July 11, 2012, 07:27:10 AM I'm really starting to wonder if the CF really was that much of a disaster. Even with a al twin spar frame the same handling issues are there... so there has to be something else intrinsically wrong with the bike in general. 90* V Hopefully the narrower V motor taht's supposed to debut at Laguna will help get the bike going in the right direction. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on July 11, 2012, 10:35:58 AM They want to stick with the V format, plenty of Vs on the grid. this: 90* V Hopefully the narrower V motor taht's supposed to debut at Laguna will help get the bike going in the right direction. is (probably) the issue. it's the only thing they haven't changed and they're the only ones that use such a steep angle.. because it's the 'ducati DNA'. time to let that shit go, obviously. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on July 11, 2012, 07:01:34 PM is the MotoGP V4 an L or V? Is it on the same plane as the old 1198 motor or more like the new 1199?
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on July 11, 2012, 07:55:38 PM is the MotoGP V4 an L or V? Is it on the same plane as the old 1198 motor or more like the new 1199? it's a L, not sure of the plane Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: kopfjäger on July 11, 2012, 08:39:45 PM is the MotoGP V4 an L or V? Is it on the same plane as the old 1198 motor or more like the new 1199? 90 degree V4 http://m.motomatters.com/node/5485 (http://m.motomatters.com/node/5485) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on July 12, 2012, 05:20:28 AM it's a L, not sure of the plane ok It's not a classic L (http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2012/Ducati-Launch-2012/i-GT4MCD5/0/L/image025-L.jpg) "Note the full radiator at the front. No cylinder heads sticking through, for the first time ever, a sign the engine has been rotated backwards." Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati Marketing Department, Bridgestone, Dorna Post by: Desmostro on July 14, 2012, 04:17:15 PM "RESTIAMO UNITI" - 'Let's stick together' (Literally : "Let us stay united")
Encouraging... (http://photos.motogp.com/2012/07/14/46rossi_2gg6240_slideshow_169.jpg) (http://photos.motogp.com/2012/07/14/sequence-1_slideshow.jpg) "Gianni Morandi is an Italian singer, actor and television host. He is considered one of the cornerstones of light Italian music, with 49 million records sold worldwide. And the phrase, "Restiamo Uniti" (let’s stick together), is a "motto" that was made famous by Morandi, when directing his staff on the stage at the Sanremo Festival." -MOTOGP.COM http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Rossi+Helmet (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Rossi+Helmet) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on July 15, 2012, 08:32:24 PM All Ducati needs to do is sit back and wait for Dorna to castrate the Japanese factory teams with lots of new rules aimed at making the CRT bikes competitive..
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: The Don on July 15, 2012, 11:29:22 PM Lol, I couldn't agree more
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on July 31, 2012, 10:18:41 AM It went from the helmet in Mugelo to practically now on the M1. It seems that California is very far away from the promises that Audi made in Germany. MCN might have been a bit too premature, but they're already publishing a "Rossi to Yamaha" edition of their mag.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on July 31, 2012, 10:26:09 AM the N in MCN stands for National eNquirer
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: triangleforge on July 31, 2012, 10:40:21 AM No real news here, but a surprisingly frank evaluation by Rossi of the salary offers he's seeing and the choice between Ducati, Yamaha and "The Third Option" of a non-factory bike.
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120730c.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120730c.htm) I laughed out loud at the joke about Dovi... And I also thought this was weird/sad/funny... On it's Facebook page yesterday, MotoGP enthused "Today is Nicky Hayden’s birthday! Let’s celebrate his 31 years and his Ducati renewal with official MotoGP merchandising. Wish him a very Happy Birthday clad in his team's colours!" They had a helpful link to the enthusiastically-priced MotoGP gear at http://store.motogp.com/en/search/?s=ducati (http://store.motogp.com/en/search/?s=ducati), which didn't list any Hayden-branded gear, but does give you the option of picking up a #46 Monster Energy/Ducati cap... [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on July 31, 2012, 11:00:51 AM No real news here, but a surprisingly frank evaluation by Rossi of the salary offers he's seeing and the choice between Ducati, Yamaha and "The Third Option" of a non-factory bike. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120730c.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120730c.htm) I laughed out loud at the joke about Dovi... And I also thought this was weird/sad/funny... On it's Facebook page yesterday, MotoGP enthused "Today is Nicky Hayden’s birthday! Let’s celebrate his 31 years and his Ducati renewal with official MotoGP merchandising. Wish him a very Happy Birthday clad in his team's colours!" They had a helpful link to the enthusiastically-priced MotoGP gear at http://store.motogp.com/en/search/?s=ducati (http://store.motogp.com/en/search/?s=ducati), which didn't list any Hayden-branded gear, but does give you the option of picking up a #46 Monster Energy/Ducati cap... [laugh] Being the number 2 seems to be one of those issues he doesn't appreciate. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on July 31, 2012, 12:48:07 PM i wonder to what degree valentino's decision is influenced by that HUGE make the beast with two backsING POSTER of he in red that's hanging on the side of a building in the center of his tiny hometown.
that would keep you up at night. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on July 31, 2012, 01:27:23 PM i wonder to what degree valentino's decision is influenced by that HUGE make the beast with two backsING POSTER of he in red that's hanging on the side of a building in the center of his tiny hometown. that would keep you up at night. They can just paint it. Blue seems to suit him. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 01, 2012, 09:42:18 AM So I watched Fastest again last night... and they really gotta get Rossi back on a yam. Its just sad to see how far he's fallen on duc. But that movie did really point out how much Rossi hated being #2 on the team.
Also, I really dont know if Rossi could have beaten Stoner last year on a M1... but it would have been amazing to see him try. This year... might have been closer btwn Lorenzo and Rossi. If I were him, I'd try to break Ago's record on the Yam and then go back and retire on the duc... but right now... I think the duc needs at lot more than just audi money. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 01, 2012, 09:55:01 AM the problem is that he has 2-3 years left. and he CARES about records, legacies, winning on 6 formats and 3 brands, cementing the GOAT title.
but he cares more about winning, first. also i think the "#2" thing won't have any meaning if he goes back. there'll be 2 #1's. he'll have his crew, jb, endless cash, and a commitment no doubt from yamaha up front to give him what he needs. could he have beaten casey last year on an M1? good damn question. considering how long the shoulder rehab took, probably not. casey was bulletproof last year. wish we had gotten to see him try. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 04:09:50 AM Could this be true? Finally!
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/rossi-linked-with-yamaha-motogp-return-20120802-23hts.htm Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 02, 2012, 05:29:26 AM Could this be true? Finally! http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/rossi-linked-with-yamaha-motogp-return-20120802-23hts.htm (http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/rossi-linked-with-yamaha-motogp-return-20120802-23hts.htm) Linkie no workie. Second, he's been link to return to Yamaha for at least 2 weeks. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 05:58:52 AM Let me give the linkie another try.
http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/rossi-linked-with-yamaha-motogp-return-20120802-23hts.html Well rumors been all over the place as always. But per the press conference in Leguna Seca, he will announce before Indy. I just hope he leaves Ducati. Darn, Dovi is going to be stuck in Tech3 instead of going back to factory. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 02, 2012, 06:07:38 AM Linkie now works. To be more precise, Yamaha made an offer for Rossi to return under their terms, be the #2 to Lorenzo. The article implied that Rossi practically begged Yamaha to come back. For most of the season the rumors were that he would go to Honda. I think that Yamaha's offer was a shot in the dark that just might have hit the bullseye. I personally think that Rossi will not pass up the opportunity to be competitive again. I see him running back to Yamaha.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 08:15:17 AM Yep, it will be interesting. Ofcourse Lorenzo is going to be unhappy but same time he will show off that he is #1 factory rider while Rossi is #2. Too bad for Dovi then who will still be stuck at Tech3 while Cal moves to Ducati. Hmm it will ve interesting.....
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 02, 2012, 09:51:46 AM Of course Lorenzo is going to be unhappy he claims he won't be but same time he will show off that he is #1 factory rider while Rossi is #2. doesn't need to show it off. valentino is already calling him the best rider in the world, at the moment Too bad for Dovi then who will still be stuck at Tech3 while Cal moves to Ducati. Hmm it will ve interesting..... maybe. probably. that article doesn't really say anything new. we're just making them some money by looking at it :) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 11:08:38 AM http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/291484/images/new-paper-main.jpg (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/291484/images/new-paper-main.jpg)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 02, 2012, 12:09:50 PM http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/291484/images/new-paper-main.jpg (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/291484/images/new-paper-main.jpg) Derby, sort of... MCN might have been a bit too premature, but they're already publishing a "Rossi to Yamaha" edition of their mag. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 12:43:22 PM There is a sentence below the bigger font headline ending with a question mark :-)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 02, 2012, 12:52:32 PM There is a sentence below the bigger font headline ending with a question mark :-) aka, all the money spent on this front page publication was spent on zero content. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 02, 2012, 01:13:29 PM aka, all the money spent on this front page publication was spent on zero content. Indeed. Sell sell more magazine based on a nice headline. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 02, 2012, 04:14:18 PM Indeed. Sell sell more magazine based on a nice headline. Don Henley - Dirty Laundry (Studio Version) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o#) ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 02, 2012, 04:18:52 PM ;D ..she can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam in her eye Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 02, 2012, 04:31:11 PM ..she can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam in her eye ...t's interesting when people die...Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: MadDuck on August 03, 2012, 08:47:25 AM From Motomatters:
Thomas Baujard of @moto_journal has the scoop. MacKenzie spoke to Rossi at Yamaha's HQ in Amsterdam. He's signed the deal. Good job Tom! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 03, 2012, 09:10:41 AM He's claiming 2 years in GP and 2 in SBK...
http://news.moto-journal.fr/sport/motogp-rossiyamaha-les-coulisses-du-scoop (http://news.moto-journal.fr/sport/motogp-rossiyamaha-les-coulisses-du-scoop) We'll see Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 03, 2012, 09:28:52 AM same maybe'ness
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120803c.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120803c.htm) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 03, 2012, 10:06:01 AM http://motomatters.com/news/2012/08/03/valentino_rossi_spotted_at_yamaha_s_euro.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/08/03/valentino_rossi_spotted_at_yamaha_s_euro.html)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Spidey on August 03, 2012, 10:47:42 AM If the 1-2 years in WSBK part of the contract is true, that's a brilliant move by Yamaha of using their leverage.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 03, 2012, 10:54:10 AM If the 1-2 years in WSBK part of the contract is true, that's a brilliant move by Yamaha of using their leverage. +1 I presume that with all these articles coming hard and fast Rossi will not be able to wait until Indy to announce. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Spidey on August 03, 2012, 11:02:09 AM He'll do it beforehand.
I can't wait to hear the specifics. I can't believe they've got him tied up for 3-4 years. That gives them leverage to renegotiate the contract if they need/want him in GP. The only downside is if he is still really competitive but nevertheless insists on going to WSBK while Yammie wants to keep him in GP for some reason. Cuz that'll be a problem for Dorna and then for Yamaha. That said, if he's still that competitive, I can't see him going to WSBK. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 03, 2012, 11:03:14 AM The only downside is if he is still really competitive but nevertheless insists on going to WSBK while Yammie wants to keep him in GP for some reason. Cuz that'll be a problem for Dorna and then for Yamaha. That said, if he's still that competitive, I can't see him going to WSBK. the only reason i could think of is if jorge leaves... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Spidey on August 03, 2012, 11:07:00 AM Or if he gets seriously hurt. Or if they want to waive the last two years of contract and effectively sell him to another GP team. There could be a buncha situations where it'd be great to have the GOAT as your backup plan.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 04, 2012, 07:29:21 AM Rossi to Yamaha story was a hoax.
http://m.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/04/rectification_rossi_at_yamaha_story_a_ho.html (http://m.motomatters.com/news/2012/08/04/rectification_rossi_at_yamaha_story_a_ho.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 04, 2012, 08:51:41 AM :-(
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ZLTFUL on August 04, 2012, 10:29:13 AM I knew I could get you guys all wound up!
[evil] Seriously though, until I see it in print on the MotoGP.com site, I take it ALL as speculation and rumor. Well that or Rossi's official site. Would I like to see him stay on the Duc and actually win? Hell yes. But I would rather see him riding for podiums and wins on a Yamaha over testing leather durability on while battling for 8th on the Ducati. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: DRKWNG on August 06, 2012, 01:18:14 AM Copied from the MotoWheels forum:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/DAINESE-DUCATI-CORSE-D46-Valentino-Rossi-Replica-Jacket-Rossi-Signed-7-29-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$(KGrHqF,!n0F!J0Fsey0BQFyDfe58Q~~60_57.JPG) Funny that he signed "CIAO" right next to the Ducati markings on the jacket. That's all the confirmation you need that he's going back to Yamaha. ;) Title: Re: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 06, 2012, 03:55:38 AM Ok, raising of hands from those that want him to go back to Yamaha. I think this alien needs to get back to the mothership. Screw Ducati.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: lazylightnin717 on August 06, 2012, 05:22:55 AM +1 hand raised
And boobies Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 06, 2012, 06:05:15 AM "I need to go to the bathroom, teacher" [evil]
And, so much for the Audi help with the GP bikes in the future... http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/lamborghini-owns-ducati/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/lamborghini-owns-ducati/) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 06, 2012, 07:02:41 AM "I need to go to the bathroom, teacher" [evil] And, so much for the Audi help with the GP bikes in the future... http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/lamborghini-owns-ducati/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/lamborghini-owns-ducati/) It's still the same situation... they just put lambo as the official owners to skirt some laws as stated in the article. Smart biz move and it affects nothing. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 06, 2012, 08:42:43 AM Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ab on August 06, 2012, 05:33:03 PM Go to Yamaha as much as I like Ducati !
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 06, 2012, 06:57:00 PM It's still the same situation... they just put lambo as the official owners to skirt some laws as stated in the article. Smart biz move and it affects nothing. Disagree -- Ducati was an attractive takeover target ($ and presence of Rossi) - it wasn't bought for its passel of MotoGP trophies and you can bet Del Torchino (sic) was pushing the sale hard cause it gave him a seat on a major company's board. No altruism there....How Audi 'paid' for it is irrelevant afa MC development is concerned. To me, it means there's no guaranteed commitment (by Audi) to do anything for the MotoGP bikes...regardless of all the press talk. Time will tell... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 07, 2012, 04:55:38 AM To me, it means there's no guaranteed commitment (by Audi) to do anything for the MotoGP bikes...regardless of all the press talk. why? audi is lambo is lambo is audi. this whole thing is about paperwork. and it's not like there was guaranteed commitment in the first place. we all just hoped/inferred that. Title: Re: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: tufty on August 07, 2012, 06:52:58 AM Ok, raising of hands from those that want him to go back to Yamaha. I think this alien needs to get back to the mothership. Screw Ducati. I hate agreeing with you dammit! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 07, 2012, 11:38:06 AM http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-yamaha-contract/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/valentino-rossi-yamaha-contract/)
IT IS OFFICIAL NOW! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Chococat on August 07, 2012, 12:15:49 PM Bittersweet. I'm happy to see Rossi fighting for wins again, I'm sad he had to leave Ducati to do it.
Maybe Ducati will appreciate Hayden much more now so that is a plus. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 07, 2012, 01:28:36 PM "what if I had never tried it"
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 07, 2012, 01:35:47 PM "what the f@#k was I thinking" Fixed it for ya. [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 07, 2012, 02:21:10 PM Fixed it for ya. [laugh] [laugh] .. true. but he had to try. does not bode well for corse. they better adopt that jv team thing now; it's rebuilding time. now what.. cal signs, dovi is pissed & goes to ten kate. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2012, 02:23:57 PM [laugh] .. true. but he had to try. Cal has to be nuts to sign on with Ducati...does not bode well for corse. they better adopt that jv team thing now; it's rebuilding time. now what.. cal signs, dovi is pissed & goes to ten kate. Does he want to race for 7th for a couple of years? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 07, 2012, 02:43:59 PM Cal has to be nuts to sign on with Ducati... Does he want to race for 7th for a couple of years? +1 But I'm sure he thinks that he's the one that can ride it. Factory team is still a factory team. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2012, 03:13:58 PM +1 The only person to be able to really ride the Duc (800s and newer) has been Stoner.But I'm sure he thinks that he's the one that can ride it. Factory team is still a factory team. Does Cal really think his riding style will make up for that bike? He'll be back in SBK the year after his contract expires. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 07, 2012, 03:26:34 PM The only person to be able to really ride the Duc (800s and newer) has been Stoner. Does Cal really think his riding style will make up for that bike? He'll be back in SBK the year after his contract expires. I agree...I don't think anyone will win on it until they do something dramatic. Racers don't always think rationally though. :) I'll bet he either thinks he can tame it, or Ducati can fix it quickly (neither of which is likely true). Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2012, 03:30:25 PM I agree...I don't think anyone will win on it until they do something dramatic. Just an excitable boy... ;) Racers don't always think rationally though. :) I'll bet he either thinks he can tame it, or Ducati can fix it quickly (neither of which is likely true). He'll see. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 07, 2012, 04:03:24 PM i hope this doesn't happen but the unfortunate truth is he'll probably hurt himself a few times trying, first
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 07, 2012, 04:25:20 PM i hope this doesn't happen but the unfortunate truth is he'll probably hurt himself a few times trying, first Watching Stoner ride the Duc was always frightening.I like Cal, but he's not Casey. I know I tooled on Stoner for the way he came across, but I never doubted his ability. The guy is bat shit fast. You're dead on I'm afraid. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 08, 2012, 12:25:33 PM http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101683 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101683)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 08, 2012, 12:52:10 PM http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101683 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101683) It's dated 8/1... the current news of him moving on came out 8/7 Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 08, 2012, 01:22:17 PM It's dated 8/1... the current news of him moving on came out 8/7 oh yeah? thanks :) didn't really look at it very carefully.. i anticipate there being plenty of these between now and the 15th Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ute on August 08, 2012, 03:53:19 PM Perfect replacement for Rossi is Loris Baz
He has balls the size of Nantucket and fast ...he does not know what a GP bike should feel like ...kinda reminds me of when Gilles Villeneuve went to Ferrari I gotta say won't miss Rossi Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 08, 2012, 04:04:33 PM oh yeah? thanks :) didn't really look at it very carefully.. i anticipate there being plenty of these between now and the 15th haha, yeah... I checked the date because I didnt think motomatters would have gone ahead and said he was going back the 2nd time without some really solid sources. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 09, 2012, 02:41:37 AM Perfect replacement for Rossi is Loris Baz He has balls the size of Nantucket and fast ...he does not know what a GP bike should feel like ...kinda reminds me of when Gilles Villeneuve went to Ferrari I gotta say won't miss Rossi as crazy as it sounds...I think you might be on to something there.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 09, 2012, 03:49:43 PM evidently since the cat is outta the bag, the announcement has been moved to tomorrow (friday) morning.
...and supposedly a deal is already done to take dovi to ducati. http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/09/after_rossi_moves_who_goes_where_more_si.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/09/after_rossi_moves_who_goes_where_more_si.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 09, 2012, 04:07:27 PM The difference, perhaps, is that this time a love letter such as the one Rossi wrote to Yamaha after he left in the middle of 2010 is unlikely to be forthcoming.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: lazylightnin717 on August 09, 2012, 05:45:26 PM Dovi to Ducati ???
:P Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: kopfjäger on August 09, 2012, 05:52:10 PM Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. ;)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: DRKWNG on August 09, 2012, 06:21:50 PM Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. ;) D's all broken up about it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 09, 2012, 07:02:44 PM I'm pretty suprised at Dovi to the duc... I really cant see his riding style adapting to the bike.
But I guess it's another of those "fingers crossed they fix the bike" situations. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: DRKWNG on August 09, 2012, 08:05:45 PM I'm pretty suprised at Dovi to the duc... No kidding Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 09, 2012, 08:37:40 PM I like Dovi, but.....
Better him than Cal under the Red Bus. The difference, perhaps, is that this time a love letter such as the one Rossi wrote to Yamaha after he left in the middle of 2010 is unlikely to be forthcoming. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] I think Rossi will be complimentary, it's an Italian company after all. This may be the first time in history that water is thicker than blood. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: TitanMonsterS4R on August 10, 2012, 01:04:23 AM Bye Rossi
http://www.ducati.net/2012/08/its-official-ducati-and-rossi-will-part-at-end-off-this-season/ (http://www.ducati.net/2012/08/its-official-ducati-and-rossi-will-part-at-end-off-this-season/) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: techno on August 10, 2012, 02:30:42 AM ....and the circle is complete.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101761 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101761) Now to who will fill the vacant seat. Seems like Dovi has front running. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 10, 2012, 03:17:24 AM Dovi to Ducati ??? :P I'm pretty suprised at Dovi to the duc... I really cant see his riding style adapting to the bike. But I guess it's another of those "fingers crossed they fix the bike" situations. my problem with Dovi to Ducati is this...he is like Hayden in the way that he is boldly consistant and not going to be the cowboy to override the machine to overcome it's deficientcy like Stoner...I suspect he'll flounder like Melandri and Rossi....Cal would more likely ( IMHO ) get pist enough to push the limits and end up accidentally getting results.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 10, 2012, 03:26:41 AM my problem with Dovi to Ducati is this...he is like Hayden in the way that he is boldly consistant and not going to be the cowboy to override the machine to overcome it's deficientcy like Stoner...I suspect he'll flounder like Melandri and Rossi....Cal would more likely ( IMHO ) get pist enough to push the limits and end up accidentally getting results.... more likely he'd get hurt.Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 10, 2012, 03:47:26 AM out with a whimper [laugh]
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120810b.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Aug/120810b.htm) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Spidey on August 10, 2012, 08:09:33 AM IT's official.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: DRKWNG on August 10, 2012, 08:46:51 AM IT's official. http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979) Quoting your own post that basically said what had already been covered (albeit from a different source) has to be close to the derby of all derbies. The end days are upon us... (http://sureshemre.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/singularity.jpg) ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: fastwin on August 10, 2012, 08:48:01 AM IT's official. http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56886.msg1089979#msg1089979) Guess that means I have a chance with Ducati. Lord knows I'd work for cheap and how much worse could I do than Rossi? [laugh] Bet I could beat Edwards and a couple of other CRT grid fillers. ;) Damn sure would make Nicky look good!! ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: triangleforge on August 10, 2012, 09:49:01 AM Guess that means I have a chance with Ducati. Lord knows I'd work for cheap and how much worse could I do than Rossi? [laugh] Bet I could beat Edwards and a couple of other CRT grid fillers. ;) Damn sure would make Nicky look good!! ;D Sorry, dude -- MotoGP sets a top age limit of 50 (seriously? they have to have this in the rules? They should have a rule that says "Riders shall under no circumstances exceed the speed of light" then), so you & I are out of contention. You by rather more than me, but still. Here's my dream: Audi money and development muscle + the wakeup call of watching the GOAT unable to ride your bike = a big shakeup at Ducati Corse and the wherewithal to build a rideable bike. Stranger things have happened (though not MUCH stranger). And now it really will be Rossi vs. Ducati for the rest of the season - one of the interesting bits in the MotoMatters story was the insight that Ducati currently has an amazing bike-development rider under contract in Rossi, but every incentive NOT to share their development ideas with him (and the rest of the Yamaha garage). Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 10, 2012, 10:34:01 AM Here's my dream: Audi money and development muscle + the wakeup call of watching the GOAT unable to ride your bike = a big shakeup at Ducati Corse and the wherewithal to build a rideable bike. since you said wherewithal rather than just build a rideable bike, i think your dreams are coming true as we speak. they can't close up shop, they have to try and fix it. and since this is such a major, MAJOR cock up losing him, some heads will roll. like Preziosi's. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: danaid on August 10, 2012, 10:57:02 AM Glad to see Rossi go back to Yamaha.
I'm not a fan boy or hater of him, but watching him with his proven skills and record, running by himself at the back of the pack at laguna seca, was kinda sad, :'( oh well. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 10, 2012, 11:12:03 AM since you said wherewithal rather than just build a rideable bike, i think your dreams are coming true as we speak. they can't close up shop, they have to try and fix it. and since this is such a major, MAJOR cock up losing him, some heads will roll. like Preziosi's. I think Preziosi knows that.Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 10, 2012, 11:16:37 AM Sorry, dude -- MotoGP sets a top age limit of 50 (seriously? they have to have this in the rules? They should have a rule that says "Riders age shall under no circumstances meet or exceed the joining age for AARP" ), ...... fixed it for you!...LOL Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 10, 2012, 11:21:30 AM And now it really will be Rossi vs. Ducati for the rest of the season - one of the interesting bits in the MotoMatters story was the insight that Ducati currently has an amazing bike-development rider under contract in Rossi, but every incentive NOT to share their development ideas with him (and the rest of the Yamaha garage). yes...but depending on what they continue to give him for to develop for Nicky could be a part of the strategy for here on out, and keeping him from getting the total package to know what to convey to Yamaha...though you really have to ask yourself this...what does Ducati have that Yamaha doesn't?...so maybe it is pointless with their very different configurations of machinery... wouldn't it be a hoot to see the GP13 come out of the gate with something usable that gives Rossi a hard time for getting on the podium?....the next bet will be how many times Rossi stands on the podium in '13?!?!?! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 10, 2012, 11:28:31 AM I for one am happy he went back to Yamaha. With Stoner retiring it would have sucked to watch Lorenzo break Pedrosa in just about every race, with the few exceptions of the Turd actually checking out on some tracks. I think Rossi coming back as the number 2 will shake up his world and hopefully he'll be back to having to prove himself. Maybe a move like in 2008 in Laguna.
Ducati should have fired Preziosi a long time ago. Audi won't be as forgiving. I see an army of German engineers invading Corse in the near future. It won't happen in the next 2 years, but I think they might have a competitive bike by 2015. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 10, 2012, 11:34:34 AM I for one am happy he went back to Yamaha. With Stoner retiring it would have sucked to watch Lorenzo break Pedrosa in just about every race, with the few exceptions of the Turd actually checking out on some tracks. I think Rossi coming back as the number 2 will shake up his world and hopefully he'll be back to having to prove himself. Maybe a move like in 2008 in Laguna. I'd like to think that Motegi in 2009 would be a much better example! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 10, 2012, 11:56:59 AM Ducati should have fired Preziosi a long time ago. Audi won't be as forgiving. I see an army of German engineers invading Corse in the near future. It won't happen in the next 2 years, but I think they might have a competitive bike by 2015. I would love to see Rossi go back 2 years if they had a competitive bike by then. Not sure if that's possible and if he'll be competitive by then but if all the cards are in place it could be awesome. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 10, 2012, 12:13:09 PM I'd like to think that Motegi in 2009 would be a much better example! motegi was a great race, but are you really talking about catalunya? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 10, 2012, 12:15:34 PM motegi was a great race, but are you really talking about catalunya? NAHHH...because Motegi was when he was just fresh back from the broken leg and was challenging Jorge for 3rd on the podium and bashed into the side of him going into the tunnel in front of all the Japanese ( fans and brass alike) for to make that brazened pass....though the Catalunya last lap, last turn was a great one indeed! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 10, 2012, 12:47:07 PM Ducati should have fired Preziosi a long time ago. FINALLY someone else agrees with what I've been saying for 2 years. Preziosi IS the problem with the Ducati Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 10, 2012, 01:39:01 PM FINALLY someone else agrees with what I've been saying for 2 years. Who says no one agrees with you?Preziosi IS the problem with the Ducati http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34111.msg714774#msg714774 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=34111.msg714774#msg714774) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: triangleforge on August 10, 2012, 01:59:48 PM I think Preziosi knows that. That was the other eye-opening bit (to me) in the MotoMatters story -- Preziosi's reaction to the Hail Mary of trying to bring in Furusawa to fix the Duc: "The Japanese engineer revealed just how far Ducati were prepared to go to get help, telling Nishimura that Preziosi had said 'I just want to make our bike better. It doesn’t matter if I lose my position.'” Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 10, 2012, 02:05:37 PM That was the other eye-opening bit (to me) in the MotoMatters story -- Preziosi's reaction to the Hail Mary of trying to bring in Furusawa to fix the Duc: "The Japanese engineer revealed just how far Ducati were prepared to go to get help, telling Nishimura that Preziosi had said 'I just want to make our bike better. It doesn’t matter if I lose my position.'” The problem with that, in my mind anyway, is Preziosi wasn't willing to back down until it was obvious he would go if Rossi did.See my previous link. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: triangleforge on August 10, 2012, 02:05:57 PM Audi won't be as forgiving. I see an army of German engineers invading Corse in the near future. It won't happen in the next 2 years, but I think they might have a competitive bike by 2015. You're probably right, both about the invading army & the learning curve - it's taken time for BMW to understand (some would say bordering on several decades*) that racing on two wheels has some important differences from racing on four, and they actually build motorcycles. *One of my favorite stories was something I read quoting Reg Pridmore about racing the BMW R90S back in the mid-1970s. Apparently, the brakes would vary during a race from simply terrifying to nonexistent and he was constantly telling the factory about it. The BMW engineers would retort that they'd looked at the specs, and the brakes were fine. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: $Lindz$ on August 11, 2012, 04:37:25 AM NAHHH...because Motegi was when he was just fresh back from the broken leg and was challenging Jorge for 3rd on the podium and bashed into the side of him going into the tunnel in front of all the Japanese ( fans and brass alike) for to make that brazened pass....though the Catalunya last lap, last turn was a great one indeed! Then you're talking about Motegi 2010, not 2009... that's what gm2 was implying. As for Rossi/Lorenzo: I think physically Lorenzo has the upper hand but mentally Rossi does. He's got nothing left to lose. He isn't as naive and bullish/cocky as he was in 2010 (or anytime prior to Ducati). Rossi has matured a lot more than I expected over the last 2 years. Then again, he hasn't gotten the results I expected either. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 11, 2012, 06:43:29 AM I would love to see Rossi go back 2 years if they had a competitive bike by then. Not sure if that's possible and if he'll be competitive by then but if all the cards are in place it could be awesome. Would be the perfect ending to a storied career.But, they already had a competitive bike - if Stoner's success counts for anything. I can't see Audi being of much help, if they even bother to get involved, now that Rossi's gone. In fact, Audi involvement may push the whole process backwards. Ducati should concentrate on WSBK, imho, and let the MotoGP chips fall where they may... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 11, 2012, 08:05:11 AM But, they already had a competitive bike - if Stoner's success counts for anything. nobody can argue that stoner rode that bike better than everybody else. that said, he has michelin to thank for his first championship. they didn't bring a competitive tire to the track that entire season and stoner didn't repeat on the ducati once rossi switched to the same tire. based on stoner's performance, the ducati gpx either got progressively harder to ride year over year or, at a minimum, never improved. you can base this on his front-end oopsies. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 11, 2012, 09:06:33 AM Would be the perfect ending to a storied career. But, they already had a competitive bike - if Stoner's success counts for anything. I can't see Audi being of much help, if they even bother to get involved, now that Rossi's gone. In fact, Audi involvement may push the whole process backwards. Ducati should concentrate on WSBK, imho, and let the MotoGP chips fall where they may... Ah, I meant going back to duc in 2015... forgot to put the "in" in my comment. And I agree with derby about the GP... I dont think you can really consider it a competitive bike when no one else in the world can ride it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 11, 2012, 02:52:20 PM Then you're talking about Motegi 2010, not 2009... that's what gm2 was implying. my bad...you are correct...but we both know exactly what moments we were getting at... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Drunken Monkey on August 11, 2012, 08:40:25 PM The BMW engineers would retort that they'd looked at the specs, and the brakes were fine. "The difference between Theory and Practice is that in Theory there's no difference between the two. In practice there is" Preziosi needs to be shown the door. Casey said the bike sucked. Nicky said the bike sucked. It wasn't until the GOAT repeatedly said the bike sucked did they start to change. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Jester on August 11, 2012, 08:45:05 PM It wasn't until the GOAT repeatedly said the bike sucked did they start to change. Its sad that after all the changes, the bike is essentially the same dog it was two years ago. They need a fresh perspective. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 12, 2012, 09:53:42 AM Its sad that after all the changes, the bike is essentially the same dog it was two years ago. They need a fresh perspective. +1 I was thinking a fresh bike and a fresh rider like Iannone or Espargo to build a long term competitive team around. chad Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 13, 2012, 05:15:39 AM "The difference between Theory and Practice is that in Theory there's no difference between the two. In practice there is" Preziosi needs to be shown the door. Casey said the bike sucked. Nicky said the bike sucked. It wasn't until the GOAT repeatedly said the bike sucked did they start to change. apparently if you charge them enough they start to listen. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 13, 2012, 07:56:51 AM apparently if you charge them enough they start to listen. Yup, it's why consulting works... Your employee: "our product sucks" - you either fire or ignore him Outside consultant: "your product sucks and here is your bill" - you go back and reengineer. And are impressed by how well and quickly the consultant came up with that result. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Drunken Monkey on August 13, 2012, 04:15:12 PM Yup, it's why consulting works... That's funny because it's true. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: TitanMonsterS4R on August 15, 2012, 06:31:33 AM Stoner put on his BIG BOY PANTS and just punched Rossi where it counts [popcorn]. Hope this makes for a good race...
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/August/aug1512-stoner-slams-rossi-yamaha-return/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/MotoGP/2012/August/aug1512-stoner-slams-rossi-yamaha-return/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter) Some of Stoner's comments: "Valentino got his best result in the dry virtually in his first race on the Ducati supposedly with shoulder injuries and I haven't seen any improvement over the past two years and this is disappointing. "I feel sorry for the people behind that bike. Valentino obviously doesn't want to push limits and ride a bike that is not perfect. He has admitted that. If he's had a bike that is that good in Yamaha before and hasn't had to push when the bike is not perfect then God knows how good that bike is. "Obviously he doesn't want to put the effort in with Ducati. It is disappointing for them that they're doing all they can and he is not even trying to get the best out of it. "There are certain riders in this paddock who have considered themselves test riders who can lead a manufacturer in the right direction and Valentino has certainly proved himself not to be the case with Ducati. It is just obvious that he needs an extremely good bike to be able to win. "It is blatantly obvious that he can't win with a Ducati and make it competitive so he's looking for the first option out. He said he wanted to finish his career with them and now he wants to jump ship.” Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: thought on August 15, 2012, 06:37:36 AM wow. [popcorn]
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: fastwin on August 15, 2012, 06:43:21 AM That's a kick in the shorts. That said, Stoner is right about one thing... they are two totally different riders. Not the biggest Stoner fan but he could put a little kid's Big Wheel on the podium if he had to. Bigger Rossi fan but I don't see him doing that...
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 15, 2012, 06:45:41 AM wouldn't it be nice if Rossi took those comments to heart and turned on something extra inside and got into a fairing bashing result with Stoner?
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: TitanMonsterS4R on August 15, 2012, 07:01:20 AM wouldn't it be nice if Rossi took those comments to heart and turned on something extra inside and got into a fairing bashing result with Stoner? Any TRUE competitor would take those comments to heart and try whether he succeeds or fail to do something big. Playing competitive sports all my life, if anyone said that about me and my work ethic I'd be out for blood and I don't have a 2-wheeled death machine at my disposal. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 15, 2012, 07:07:14 AM [popcorn] [popcorn]
...even more sad now that Stoner is retiring. This could have been very interesting with Rossi back on a good bike. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 15, 2012, 07:10:51 AM would have be MORE better :D if Stoner comes out of retirement and kicks Rossi's tail while riding a .....
Duc Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 15, 2012, 07:29:28 AM IDEA!!!
Audi hires Davide Tardozzi to be their direct consultant to oversee the Ducati process and offer direct feedback on what can and should be changed within Corse! Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 15, 2012, 08:53:53 AM I agree with most of what Stoner said.
In fact, looking back, I think VR/JB and Ducati have screwed the bike up worse than it was in 2010. It seems like they were making so many big changes, and such a fast pace, that they forgot the scientific method - understanding what the changes did in small steps. mitt Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: BastrdHK on August 15, 2012, 09:09:31 AM Its all starting to take shape. Stoner will retire, try the "relaxing, fun things" during the 2013 season, realize he is in his prime and has the rest of his life to race carts, sip cocktails around the barbie and go fishing. The itch will return, the itch to tame a slutty, italian machine with attitude because he is the only one that can. Casey just doesn't realize what his true talent is yet.
Stoner back to Ducati 2014.....its the Bayliss/Ducati relationship if Troy were 15yrs younger. Ducati has a thing for Aussies who win championships on their bikes. This is not the last time we will see Casey racing on two wheels or involved with Ducati....print it [coffee] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 15, 2012, 09:12:33 AM I just don't see Stoner going back to Ducati. He has stated he liked his team, but thinks upper management are a bunch of liars, due to how they handled the Lorenzo issue.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 15, 2012, 10:14:41 AM I just don't see Stoner going back to Ducati. He has stated he liked his team, but thinks upper management are a bunch of liars, due to how they handled the Lorenzo issue. and just how long do you see any of DUcati GP Corse sticking around with Audi oversight in 2014? I know if I were Audi. Ducati GP would see a clearing house at the top. These would have to go Ducati Corse General and Technical Director - Filippo Preziosi MotoGP Project Director - Alessandro Cicognani Team Manager -Vittoriano Guareschi MotoGP Press Manager - Federica De Zottis The last one cause I want his job. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 15, 2012, 10:38:07 AM No idea. We'll see if Audi really shakes things up. They are being viewed as the saviors by many here, but I'm not so sure.
If upper mgmt. changed then maybe Stoner would return. That is if he gets over what bothers him about MotoGP in general, which Ducati doesn't entirely control. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 15, 2012, 10:56:31 AM I see MotoGP in trouble if Ducati doesn't come up, so maybe Dorna will help ease things a bit.
An all Japanese fight won't be good for a European racing series. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: kopfjäger on August 15, 2012, 02:54:02 PM No idea. We'll see if Audi really shakes things up. They are being viewed as the saviors by many here, but I'm not so sure. They felt that way about 'the Goat' as well. ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 16, 2012, 07:59:37 AM http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/16/rossi_ducati_and_yamaha_and_the_winner_i.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/16/rossi_ducati_and_yamaha_and_the_winner_i.html)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 16, 2012, 10:04:43 AM http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/16/rossi_ducati_and_yamaha_and_the_winner_i.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2012/08/16/rossi_ducati_and_yamaha_and_the_winner_i.html) Great article. Rossi and JB have looked like douches for 2 years after the comments they made about Stoner. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: DRKWNG on August 16, 2012, 02:06:21 PM Rossi and JB have looked like douches for 2 years after the comments they made about Stoner. Yup. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 17, 2012, 09:38:04 AM Good article - as an R&D engineer, I see a lot of merit in this summary -- hits the nails on their heads. All the personalities and drama are overblown and just a distraction....
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 21, 2012, 01:21:18 PM http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/21/masao_furusawa_interview_on_visiting_ita.html (http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/21/masao_furusawa_interview_on_visiting_ita.html)
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 21, 2012, 02:37:08 PM http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/21/masao_furusawa_interview_on_visiting_ita.html (http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/08/21/masao_furusawa_interview_on_visiting_ita.html) Very interesting article. Shocking to me that Ducati would admit they need help from a former rival. I also like how straight forward he is with his responses. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 21, 2012, 06:30:11 PM I think Vr and Jb set Ducati back 2 yrs in development.
The bike looks nothing like the championship bike. Having free reign to make changes is a dangerous recipe for a factory. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 22, 2012, 04:21:35 AM I think Vr and Jb set Ducati back 2 yrs in development. i'd say ducati set themselves back ~5 years by not listening to their riders. The bike looks nothing like the championship bike. the last ducati boy wonder rode looked nothing like his championship bike, either... Having free reign to make changes is a dangerous recipe for a factory. sort of... rossi and burgess can provide feedback to the factory and tell them how the bike feels, what they think the bike is doing, and possibly even what they think would make the rider more confident/comfortable, but it's still the guys at the factory that are supposed to engineer those solutions that increase performance and rider confidence. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 22, 2012, 06:40:07 AM i'd say ducati set themselves back ~5 years by not listening to their riders. the last ducati boy wonder rode looked nothing like his championship bike, either... sort of... rossi and burgess can provide feedback to the factory and tell them how the bike feels, what they think the bike is doing, and possibly even what they think would make the rider more confident/comfortable, but it's still the guys at the factory that are supposed to engineer those solutions that increase performance and rider confidence. I think people don't give Ducati enough credit. They aren't dummies when it comes to designing motorcycles. They have been doing it a long time, and have a pretty good track record in most endeavors. Personally, I would like to see them to back to the carbon concept, or back to something they have a good baseline with, and get it working with more engineering and testing. Right now, with all the changes, they don't even know what they have as a baseline. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 22, 2012, 06:57:14 AM They do not have a good track record building a MotoGP bike. They can build a screaming twin, but add 2 more cylinders and they make the beast with two backs it up.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 22, 2012, 06:59:17 AM Canning Preziosi may not be the solution (unless he's impossible to work with); getting him a world-class chassis designer could be...
Perhaps they've reached the limit of what the L-4 bike's geometry can do with these tires...but going to a totally new engine concept is far more $$$$ and risky than trying to tweak the chassis and suspension for better performance. If Audi brings help, at all, I would hope its towards an entirely new bike and engine, cause Ducati's not going to compete/survive in MotoGP if they keep bringing "a biplane to the warbirds air races"... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 22, 2012, 07:10:48 AM I don't think we can forget about the spec. Bridgestones.
If Ducati had more input into the tire, like they did in Stoner's year, I bet they'd be capable of developing a competitive bike. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 22, 2012, 08:26:22 AM Only Stoner has been able to consistently win on a Ducati, even when Bridgestone was supplying the tires only for the Ducs. At has always been a shitty bike.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 22, 2012, 08:29:16 AM I don't think we can forget about the spec. Bridgestones. If Ducati had more input into the tire, like they did in Stoner's year, I bet they'd be capable of developing a competitive bike. maybe this format would be a better solution to the spec tire rule ?!?!?! http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/08/21/an_alternative_to_spec_tires_australian_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/08/21/an_alternative_to_spec_tires_australian_.html) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 22, 2012, 08:39:05 AM Only Stoner has been able to consistently win on a Ducati, even when Bridgestone was supplying the tires only for the Ducs. At has always been a shitty bike. Not really. They didn't even enter GP until 2003, and finished 2nd among manufacturers that year (not bad, eh?). They had multiple race wins and podiums in 2004 & 2005 while developing the bike, and were doing quite well in 2006 until Sete and Capirossi collided. Despite that they finished 2006 with Bayliss and Capirossi placing 1st and 2nd in the last race of the season. Stoner won the championship in 2007, and it's been downhill since. The D16RR may not have been dominant prior to 2007, but it was competitive and definitely had potential. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 22, 2012, 08:40:23 AM maybe this format would be a better solution to the spec tire rule ?!?!?! http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/08/21/an_alternative_to_spec_tires_australian_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/opinion/2012/08/21/an_alternative_to_spec_tires_australian_.html) I saw that...interesting. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 22, 2012, 09:25:01 AM Despite that they finished 2006 with Bayliss and Capirossi placing 1st and 2nd in the last race of the season. to call what Bayliss did at Valencia that year a 'win' is to call the Isle Of Man a 'race'. ;D Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 22, 2012, 11:19:37 AM to call what Bayliss did at Valencia that year a 'win' is to call the Isle Of Man a 'race'. ;D He ripped off their collective heads and shit in their necks. ;)Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 22, 2012, 12:06:00 PM Not really. They didn't even enter GP until 2003, and finished 2nd among manufacturers that year (not bad, eh?). They had multiple race wins and podiums in 2004 & 2005 while developing the bike, and were doing quite well in 2006 until Sete and Capirossi collided. Despite that they finished 2006 with Bayliss and Capirossi placing 1st and 2nd in the last race of the season. Stoner won the championship in 2007, and it's been downhill since. The D16RR may not have been dominant prior to 2007, but it was competitive and definitely had potential. You are correct, not consistent, but not atrocious either. When did the dependency on electronics start? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 22, 2012, 12:20:41 PM not really a matter of 'start'. they have progressed over the years, like everything else. safe to say though that a major turning point was 2007 (the 800s).
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 22, 2012, 12:42:39 PM Does anyone (other than the derb, perhaps) know who actually writes the performance/design spec for the 'spec tire'?
Do all/any of the factories have 'official' input? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 22, 2012, 05:10:09 PM Not really. They didn't even enter GP until 2003, and finished 2nd among manufacturers that year (not bad, eh?). They had multiple race wins and podiums in 2004 & 2005 while developing the bike, and were doing quite well in 2006 until Sete and Capirossi collided. Despite that they finished 2006 with Bayliss and Capirossi placing 1st and 2nd in the last race of the season. Stoner won the championship in 2007, and it's been downhill since. The D16RR may not have been dominant prior to 2007, but it was competitive and definitely had potential. That is what I remember too. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 28, 2012, 11:58:19 AM Corse is reorganizing. Shocking, i know.
oh, and rossi was "unable to interpret [the ducati's] characteristics". good one! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102022 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102022) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 28, 2012, 12:06:29 PM Any reorganization without replacing prezioso is uesless
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 28, 2012, 01:03:43 PM Any reorganization without replacing prezioso is uesless Please provide exact location of the MotoGP bike designer tree, so that they can go pick another one. I'd also like to know, as there may be a bush nearby where I can pick a good shop tech. [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 28, 2012, 01:18:22 PM oh I don't know... raiding BMW or Aprilia wouldn't be a bad start
I've read his history and Prezioso is a great developer, not designer. His WSBK wins came from enhancing and tweaking someone else's designs. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: MadDuck on August 28, 2012, 10:48:58 PM Gee, we had a pretty good bike at one time. Won some races and were in the hunt a fair amount of the time. Even got a championship due to some extreme talent and a bit of luck.
Was that as good as it was ever going to get? We turned a corner somewhere and it all started to go downhill. Can we go back to that corner and take a different turn, think outside the box or in a different direction? Could it get any worse? Or, again, was it just plain fact that at the time that was as good as it will ever get? [popcorn] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 29, 2012, 03:36:06 AM That corner was Laguna 2008 on the corkscrew. That's when Rossi really started the mindmake the beast with two backs against Stoner and indirectly Ducati.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 29, 2012, 06:49:10 AM That corner was Laguna 2008 on the corkscrew. That's when Rossi really started the mindmake the beast with two backs against Stoner and indirectly Ducati. And, what, he completed the mindmake the beast with two backs by riding for Ducati? ??? Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Triple J on August 29, 2012, 07:14:56 AM And, what, he completed the mindmake the beast with two backs by riding for Ducati? ??? [laugh] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 29, 2012, 08:09:11 AM And, what, he completed the mindmake the beast with two backs by riding for Ducati? ??? He make the beast with two backsed himself. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Speeddog on August 29, 2012, 11:27:23 AM Sounds like the test went well:
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/rossi+test+misano+day2 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/rossi+test+misano+day2) New frame and swinger for the race. And more frames coming. Sounds like Rossi's going to see the bike get all sorted out just in time to leave it for Nicky and Dovi. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 29, 2012, 11:46:39 AM Sounds like Rossi's going to see the bike get all sorted out just in time to leave it for Nicky and Dovi. pretty sure he knew that was a possibility. but who can bank on that after the last 2 years.. when you only have 2 more to go Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 29, 2012, 12:09:04 PM Plus I doubt that they found the one thing that fixes the whole bike. It might provide slightly better feel, but I would not keep my hopes up.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 29, 2012, 12:15:00 PM There isn't just one thing wrong.
The two main complaints I heard from Rossi... the bike won't steer... the power delivery is unmanageable. It sounds like they've made some progress on the first. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 29, 2012, 12:22:17 PM It sounds like they've made some progress on the first. Results wise, not holding my breath. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 29, 2012, 12:40:00 PM Results wise, not holding my breath. I don't hold my breath about waking up tomorrow. :PWe'll see. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: The Architect on August 30, 2012, 02:46:43 AM Results wise, not holding my breath. Yes but they're doing something. They might get it horribly wrong or they might make improvements. They have got to do something. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: wantingaduc on August 30, 2012, 07:27:34 AM Now that Rossi is leaving, does anyone think there's a chance Ducati will revert back to the carbon frame design?
From what I can see on the interwebs, Checca and Bayliss have been very complimentary to the 1199 and it's handling. Checca went so far as to say that he thought the problem with the GP bike wasn't the way it handeled but more with the way it worked with the Bridgestone tires. And how the feedback was relayed to the rider differently then a conventional framed bike. Maybe the idea was't flawed all along, could it be that Rossi just couldn't get his head wrapped around that bike? jimi Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 30, 2012, 07:36:37 AM To me you go back to the trellis that won. and start from there.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: zooom on August 30, 2012, 07:43:01 AM Now that Rossi is leaving, does anyone think there's a chance Ducati will revert back to the carbon frame design? From what I can see on the interwebs, Checca and Bayliss have been very complimentary to the 1199 and it's handling. Checca went so far as to say that he thought the problem with the GP bike wasn't the way it handeled but more with the way it worked with the Bridgestone tires. And how the feedback was relayed to the rider differently then a conventional framed bike. Maybe the idea was't flawed all along, could it be that Rossi just couldn't get his head wrapped around that bike? jimi GOOD POINT...and quite possibly, that could be the key is the intepretive feel of carbon fiber versus aluminum, which has been discussed before, and how it transmitt's feedback.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 30, 2012, 08:18:15 AM Maybe the idea was't flawed all along, could it be that Rossi just couldn't get his head wrapped around that bike? casey won one championship on the bike and his performance got progressively worse every year until he left. yeah, it's just in rossi's head. [roll] Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 30, 2012, 09:03:27 AM casey won one championship on the bike and his performance got progressively worse every year until he left. the gp8 was the last trellisyeah, it's just in rossi's head. [roll] the CF and the Al frames have the worst showings of all the GP bikes. again. Ducati knows trellis. maybe it's time to go back to it. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: wantingaduc on August 30, 2012, 09:31:31 AM casey won one championship on the bike and his performance got progressively worse every year until he left.
yeah, it's just in rossi's head Casey showed that the bike can win, it's just that it takes a specific rider amd style to do so. His progress might have gotten worse for additional reasons other than the bike. His "lactose intolerance," his frustration with the lack of continued development of the bike, his pendng offer from Honda and maybe just his general dislike of the MotoGp circus... I'm not saying it's all in Rossi's head. But if the 1199, in street trim, can lap as fast as the outgoing WSBK bike, can ehre be that much wrong with the basic premise of the CF frame that the concept just out and out will not work in the MotoGP environment? Correct me if I'm totally wrong, but wasn't one of the driving forces behind the change to an aluminum frame the fact that changes could be made faster then the carbon one? When the first aluminum frame was used wasn't it very similar in design to the carbon one too? jimi Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: wantingaduc on August 30, 2012, 09:48:41 AM http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ducati-parallel-motogp-project-aluminum-chassis/
Ducati’s biggest problem is that the carbon fiber frameless chassis gives feedback differently than a traditional metal chassis, making it a tough-study for riders who have had an entire career centered around a twin-spar aluminum frame design. Compounding the issue further is the fact that while carbon fiber is infinitely more dynamic and tunable than aluminum or steel, it also means that Ducati has to go through many more permutations of carbon fiber chassis parts to find the right amount of flex and feedback to accommodate what the riders are looking for in the Desmosedici. With limited resources in building all these carbon fiber parts, Ducati is having to slowly but surely not only understand its creation, but also zero in more variables than on a standard racing package. Preziosi spoke to this sentiment when he said, “We are exploring different solutions, though I don’t think material is the key point. But for sure, shapes, stiffness, distribution of the stiffness through the length are concepts that we want to explore in order to build up knowledge. So, this is something we will do, and of course, every time you put something new in the truck, you have to compare it with the existing solution.” It might be old news now, but the above article and statements might still be valid in teh post Rossi age. jimi Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ducpainter on August 30, 2012, 09:52:46 AM From the guidelines...
Quote 2.5. Members should not post copyrighted materials without permission of author or photographer as applicable. Links to other publications or materials are allowed along with a short introduction to the material. Think you could make your use of the material short? Please? ;) Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: wantingaduc on August 30, 2012, 10:09:15 AM My bad, I thought it was a short usage of the article. I guess I should have put the last line first..
It wont happen again, promise. Here’s my not so crystal ball predictions for Ducati’s 2013 MotoGP program. The 2 Factory teams running development projects at the same time. Hayden and Dovi on an aluminum version of the “frameless” design, with the backing of Audi , who has extensive background in aluminum chassis engineering. Remember the talk of Dovi needing reassurance of Audi’s participation in the MotoGP program, he wanted to make sure they would consult and assist in development. The information already gained from development of the 1199 superbike’s aluminum frameless chassis would translate into additional information that the MotoGP team and Audi could use. Then the “junior team” would be running a carbon version of the same chassis to gain additional information into the similarities and differences between the 2 materials. Remember, part of the problem with development of the carbon chassis was that the engine is a stressed member. Any frame changes that affected the engine required the use of another of the teams allotted motors. Not something you want to risk when Rossi and Hayden are your riders. But with a junior team that might not be as big a problem. Then once the carbon version is “perfected” it makes a comeback in the main team. I would say given the extensive time and money Ducati spent in developing the 1199’s “frameless chassis” it’s not an idea they’re willing to abandon so quickly. I just think the need to have Rossi become competitive as soon as possible outweighed all other considerations. Now that isn’t the case anymore… jimi Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: Raux on August 30, 2012, 11:28:13 AM THe other issue with the CF was the actual change process. It took a certain length of time for the design/build/curing process that slowed changes.
The trellis was much easier to adjust, but the consistency wasn't there frame to frame is what Stoner had said. Perfecting the AL frameless design would allow quicker changes, more consistenty frame to frame. The computer design and quick prototyping/builds Audi could bring in that realm would be a godsend to a team needing changes week to week. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 30, 2012, 12:47:41 PM Casey showed that the bike can win, it's just that it takes a specific rider amd style to do so. His progress might have gotten worse for additional reasons other than the bike. His "lactose intolerance," his frustration with the lack of continued development of the bike, his pendng offer from Honda and maybe just his general dislike of the MotoGp circus... his performance deteriorated (and his crash count increased) long before his malady and pending move to honda. I'm not saying it's all in Rossi's head. But if the 1199, in street trim, can lap as fast as the outgoing WSBK bike, can ehre be that much wrong with the basic premise of the CF frame that the concept just out and out will not work in the MotoGP environment? different tires... the tires used in motogp are like nothing else on the planet. Correct me if I'm totally wrong, but wasn't one of the driving forces behind the change to an aluminum frame the fact that changes could be made faster then the carbon one? When the first aluminum frame was used wasn't it very similar in design to the carbon one too? that was one of the reasons... i think one of the main (if not biggest) ones was the cf dampened much the feedback from the front end. they've been chasing front end feel since casey's first year on the bike. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: duccarlos on August 30, 2012, 01:11:32 PM The carbon frame had too many drawbacks, all mentioned above. The middle ground of a "frameless" aluminum, to provide more feel might be a better option. Along with the tires, you also have to consider the engine layout. Ducati has attempted to build a twin with a additional cylinders. This causes many balance issues, part of the reason why they tried changing the position. We can't use the 1199 as the base since we're talking about a twin that uses a more traditional tire. Engineers have a lot more constants to work with.
Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: gm2 on August 30, 2012, 01:28:22 PM different tires... the tires used in motogp are like nothing else on the planet. can't underscore that enough. all the bikes on the grid are literally built around them. re the cf, front end feedback was the major thing yes. also very significant was the inconsistency of the material. they had a hard time getting exactly the same pieces from batch to batch, which made the level of tuning they need to do all the more difficult. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 30, 2012, 07:41:12 PM Casey was crashing his (sabotaged) Honda long before he started crashing his Ducati....
different tires... the tires used in motogp are like nothing else on the planet. Just ask Ben, if someone doesn't believe it.... Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: mitt on August 31, 2012, 11:08:29 AM CF will come to GP at some point, unless another material that is superior comes about, and assuming the series continues. It is just a matter of getting it right. Just look at 4 wheel racing and pro bicycling.
I still think a CF GP Ducati could be a winner if the can figure out the problems. mitt Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: derby on August 31, 2012, 11:37:36 AM CF will come to GP at some point, unless another material that is superior comes about, and assuming the series continues. It is just a matter of getting it right. Just look at 4 wheel racing and pro bicycling. I still think a CF GP Ducati could be a winner if the can figure out the problems. mitt to be honest, i don't think the f1 guys really iterate new chassis that fast/often. Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on August 31, 2012, 12:58:38 PM CF will come to GP at some point, unless another material that is superior comes about, and assuming the series continues. It is just a matter of getting it right. Just look at 4 wheel racing and pro bicycling. Having worked in CF R&D, I kind of doubt it'll be feasible for 200+ hp racing MCs for a long time...getting CF (i.e., fiber-reinforced plastic) components to behave/flex like metal while still retaining their strength is the holy grail, but that's what's necessary for use in MCs because the farther the MC leans over the more the frame becomes part of the suspension (i.e., acting like shocks and springs to handle bumps and keep the tires on the ground).I still think a CF GP Ducati could be a winner if the can figure out the problems. mitt Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: ellingly on September 01, 2012, 03:49:18 AM to be honest, i don't think the f1 guys really iterate new chassis that fast/often. Last few years it's been a part you homologate and need to submit a new design. Ergo, they don't really change chassis too much. They do some form work stuff like modifying holes and stuff to improve/play with aero, but that's it. It's also not something they want flexing, ever, whereas motorcycling dynamics seems to be a lot less well understood & they also do need the chassis to be a bit of a suspension component.Title: Re: Rossi vs. Ducati...and more spoilers Post by: OT on September 01, 2012, 07:15:55 AM Maybe a derby?
One man's blog.... http://manziana.motocorse.com/blog/32890_Desmo-whys (http://manziana.motocorse.com/blog/32890_Desmo-whys)…ENG_VERS.php |